Peterborough North

[great northern]

Gilbert I am a 53 year old Australian who will finally be able to settle in a house after moving with my job for 30 years. As an 8 year boy I developed a love of British railways with my uncle showing me his trains, including the Flying Scotsman ( I would love to see a picture of the Flying Scotsman if you have that model on the layout). I am now able to design and build a layout. I decided to model 1961 with the arrival of diesels in England during the peroid that steam was still operating. I chose Peterborough about three months ago as an ideal station to model due to its size and proximity to Alconbury airfield (fictional aircraft musem will be a part of the layout). Given my location in Australia I have been struggling to find plans of the station, tracks ands signals for Peterborough. I have looked at Google satelite images and thought that in 1961 the area just north of the Crescent bridge, currently heavily grassed but showing evidence of approximately 12 goods sidings, would have been operating at that time. It would seem from your layout this was not the case. Are you able to confirm if this was the case or not.

 

I wondered if you could tell me where you got the plans for your layout. Particularly I am trying to locate buildings, track, signals and the specific design of buildings in the immediate area of the station. I have been searching with minimal success. I have found that the LNER encyclopedia is very good but have not been able to locate any plans on this resource site. I was very excited to see your layout last night for the first time when I was looking for more information to assist in my research. The layout was very familiar given the 1,000s of photos I have looked at of the Peterborough area and station in parrticular. I was blown away by the station buildings as only yesterday I was trying to find ready made models to simulate the station. Having seen the great effect with your layout I now believe I shall need to scratch build (a lot of practice needed).Given my nil experience with train modelling and despite 30 years collecting and painting napoleonic 15 mm figues I shall need to do a lot more research proir to commencing anything. I intent to do a layout 19'X15' with a fiddle yard on a lower level. This may not be pratical but I will talk to guys at my local British railway club for advice. I wouls appreciate if you could reply to me queries as I have spent many hours on the internet and have strugglrd to find answers.

 

All the best with the layout and I shall be a very interested spectator to your mavellous railway. I move into a new house in 2 months and will keep researching.

 

Anthony Ashley

 

Hi Anthony, and welcome to the forum. I have to go out shortly for a couple of hours, but I will get back in touch when I get home. Probably best to send you a PM I think.

[great northern]

Another visit yesterday from Gravy Train, another lovely addition to the layout, and more detailing progress too. I meant to put some photos up last night, but a long power cut put paid to that. I only managed one half way decent shot of the latest building.....

 

 

This is the correct water tower for the North end loco facilities. I'll take some more shortly, but this one view is enough to show that Peter has excelled again. This replaces the Townstreet kit built effort which has previously occupied the site.

 

Next, here is your observation test for today, and if you don't spot this one you'll be on the naughty step for at least ten minutes.

 

 

 

 

OK, what's changed?

[The Stationmaster]

That water tower is superb, lovely and atmospheric. And has the pitch of the overall roof changed or do my eyes deceive me?

[Oldddudders]

Next, here is your observation test for today, and if you don't spot this one you'll be on the naughty step for at least ten minutes.

 

OK, what's changed?

Looks like the station now has a roof that works?

 

I know men who will pay good money to be put on the naughty step. But not by a fellow-modeller, perhaps....

[davidw]

Magnificent Gilbert! Magnificent

[great northern]

Well done Mike and Ian. Yes, we now have a mock up of the overall roof with correct pitch and dimensions, courtesy of Mr Leyland, who offered to replace my effort. Once I had finished reeling with shock at the suggestion that my version had been in some way less than perfect, I took him up on the offer. I think he couldn't bear to see his lovely buildings capped by such a monstrosity, and pushing them all out of alignment too. Anyway, he produced these in no time flat, and what an improvement! We also now have the basic platform sides too, though that isn't easy to make out on the photos. I'll go and take a few more.

[great northern]

We haven't had any shots of actual trains for a week. Here's a nice one to start with, and one which has been the subject of requests. Driver Hoole is obviously the man with his hand on the regulator today, as the Scotch Goods is running well out of course, and over an hour late. Must have had at least one stop to remove wagons with hot boxes. Alternatively, I must have pressed "page down" too vigorously and missed the train at its proper place in the sequence. Anyway, here it is.

 

 

Nice to see a train framed by an accurate overall roof.

 

 

The roof appears to be hanging in mid air on the left hand side. That's because it is. No worries though, as all will be rectified. The station wall extended out to allow the roof to continue, and in fact for a little way further still. Peter couldn't get accurate measurements for that until yesterday, so it will be arriving in a few weeks time.

 

 

That water tower is a big improvement isn't it? The Townstreet one isn't a bad model, but apart from being inaccurate for the layout it is also not in the same league as Peter's. E bay calls I think.

 

 

 

Zoom shot from Spital Bridge, again mainly to show the water tower.

 

 

Even more zoom on this one. Not very successful, but just about worth including.

 

 

Next on the Up was the Heart of Midlothian, with Grantham A3 Victor Wild in charge. The LNER lamps are much better I think.

 

 

This is there to show another side of the water tower. Too much back lighting as usual. I need to buy a continuous lighting kit. I also need the money to do so.

 

 

A3's look particularly nice from this rear three quarter view I think. The platform sides show up well too. All are now in place, but need the top decorative layers adding before they can be painted.

 

 

I struggle to get sharp images when I use this much zoom. This is taken from Crescent Bridge, and included to show how well a properly proportioned overall roof frames the train.

 

 

Last one for now. All the buildings will be properly bedded in in due course, and that hut on the left will be replaced by a correct model.

[davidw]

I love the way the coals mounted high on the tender Gilbert on the A3. Though wouldn't it be affected by the loading gauge?

 

On a slighly different note would a standard 5 and standard 4mt tank be seen on the ECML?

 

Thanks for the pics.

 

David

[great northern]

I think excess coal soon got shaken of on the first high speed bend David(or the first low bridge). 34A had three Standard 5's from December 1956 to October 1958, and another about the same time for AWS tests I think. Also two 4mt tanks were there for a very short time in '58 0r 59, but I don't know of any other instances of those being used on the ECML, except into Leeds Central from the Harrogate line.

[ianwales]

I think excess coal soon got shaken of on the first high speed bend David(or the first low bridge). 34A had three Standard 5's from December 1956 to October 1958, and another about the same time for AWS tests I think. Also two 4mt tanks were there for a very short time in '58 0r 59, but I don't know of any other instances of those being used on the ECML, except into Leeds Central from the Harrogate line.

 

Hi Gilbert

 

34A had 73071 along with a Black 5 no 44911 from Feb 56 to May 57 for AWS trials, the other 3 Std 5's allocated to 34A were 73157/8/9 from Nov 57 to Nov 58.

 

Ian

[davidw]

Thanks Gilbert, Ian. I think my 4MT tank will get ebayed. Possbly the standard 5 too

Edited April 16, 2012 by davidw

[gresley]

Gilbert,

 

Those pics of Victor Wild are wonderful. That's just how A3s should look.

 

Stuart

[artizen]

As a bricklayer's son, I would think the decorative bricks at the top of the platform edging were in fact there to create an overhang rather than to just look pretty. But back then of course, bricklayers were considered master builders so they had pride in what they did anyway so a bit of decoration was thrown in without first holding out the hand for more pay.

 

Liking your new water tower - and the comment about lighting I think is going to be more of a priority as time goes on so you can show off this fantastic layout to its best advantage.

[great northern]

As a bricklayer's son, I would think the decorative bricks at the top of the platform edging were in fact there to create an overhang rather than to just look pretty. But back then of course, bricklayers were considered master builders so they had pride in what they did anyway so a bit of decoration was thrown in without first holding out the hand for more pay.

 

Liking your new water tower - and the comment about lighting I think is going to be more of a priority as time goes on so you can show off this fantastic layout to its best advantage.

 

I knew decorative wasn't quite the right word when I typed it Ian, but as happens so often these days the one I wanted escaped me. "Overhang" was the one I was looking for. I agree entirely though that back then when real pride was taken in a job the builder would make sure his work looked good as well as being functional.

 

The lighting has I'm afraid just gone a bit further back in time, as £600 for a new pair of glasses has to be found first. It's a very complex prescription apparently. I'm just hoping that with these I won't need to take them off in order to see.

[trisonic]

I've kept quiet lately because I'd run out of superlatives, Gilbert. This layout will definitely be one for the generations to come...

 

By the way I understand exactly what you mean about expensive spectacles that have to be whipped off to see. The same over here, unfortunately.

 

Best, Pete.

[The Stationmaster]

I knew decorative wasn't quite the right word when I typed it Ian, but as happens so often these days the one I wanted escaped me. "Overhang" was the one I was looking for. I agree entirely though that back then when real pride was taken in a job the builder would make sure his work looked good as well as being functional.

Yes - the corbelling is to allow the platform edging slabs to be supported at the proper distance from rail edge while the lower part of the platform wall has to be kept further back from the rail edge to provide room for signal wires and point rodding etc. In the 1950 issue of the 'Requirements' the main platform wall should be 1 foot back from the loading gauge (= 3ft 3.75ins from the nearest inside running rail edge anfd may be further recessed for signal wires etc. The 1 ft between loading gauge edge and platform wall 'should be kept clear as far as possible of permanent obstruction. The platform edge slab should be 3ins clear of loading gauge, i.e. 9 ins nearer to rail inside edge than the platform side wall and this would require at least two courses to be corbelled. Older platforms would have been built to different standards and the stepping distance could well be greater.

[JeffP]

The full tender reminds me of a passage I've read somewhere attributed to former Top Shed shedmaster Peter Townend, describing how drivers would coal up, then try and sneak back for a topup just to be sure.

 

I think it was in a series of colour photo books.

[S.A.C Martin]

The full tender reminds me of a passage I've read somewhere attributed to former Top Shed shedmaster Peter Townend, describing how drivers would coal up, then try and sneak back for a topup just to be sure.

 

I think it was in a series of colour photo books.

 

Dominion of Canada's accident whilst doing that is related in Top Shed by the same author. Apparently the chute fell and knocked the safety valves out, just as the locomotive passed back underneath. Fireman badly scalded and in hospital for a time afterwards.

 

I wonder if this added to DoC's somewhat poorer reputation compared to the rest of the A4s at Top Shed?

[great northern]

Playing trains today, as the next two days it looks like I shall be getting a thorough soaking. I can't pull out either as both days are competitions. Mind you, my back really isn't very good, and I suppose it might be even worse tomorrow...... Must'nt let my friends down, though if the weather is as bad as predicted I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly had bad backs too.

 

Have I mentioned that the lighting can be difficult in the layout room? Today is near impossible, bright sunlight, then gloom, followed by hazy sun, and that's all within thirty seconds. Here's the best I could do.

 

 

K3 just up from Peterborough East, no doubt a fill in turn to get it back on its way to New England and a freight duty.

 

 

Lots of A3's about at the moment, this one being Grantham's no 50 Persimmon on the 6.20 pm KX - Leeds.

 

 

No sooner is she at a standstill than Doncaster's Ladas arrives with the Up White Rose. And the sun came out just as I pressed the shutter......

 

 

Ladas at rest at the South end. Don't ask what that white line on the tender is, it doesn't exist on the loco.

 

 

Local B1 with a terminating all stations from Grimsby, which has taken a very long time to get here. Life really was much slower back then. The ***** sun went in. Look at the difference in the colour of the blue card compared with earlier shots.

 

 

I've even managed to get the ****** bookshelves in on this one, but even so it is quite atmospheric. I gave up at this point before I was tempted to say a rude word, or several.

[ianwales]

Hi Gilbert

 

Another superb set of photos, funnilly enough I don't notice the bookshelves unless you actually mention them in the caption!!!

 

Ian

[JeffP]

I always thought "Ladas" was an unfortunate name...especially whem pronounced the southern way.

 

The LNER pacifics tended to have some very atmospheric names, if you discount the birds, people and places.

Think "Blink Bonny", "Sunstar", "Hal O' the Wynd".........among many others.

[Michael Delamar]

im pretty sure you will have seen this one already Gilbert, but just in case..

 

1962 - 'Streak' at Peterborough.. by rgadsdon, on Flickr

[Theakerr]

Bit of useless history. My Dad and I used to catch the 06:00 stopping train from Grimsby at New Waltham, get off at Louth, have a coffee (sorry tea in those days), wait for the 07:00 semie express (stopped at Willeby, Firsby, Boston and Spalding) to Peterborough and then non stop to Kings Cross. Less frustrating than the all stopper you reference. This practice gteed a seat at Peterborough and there was a restaurant car so we could have a "proper" breakfast on the train.

[tetleys]

Gilbert,

 

I've been considering your latest dilema concerning lighting and those intrusive book shelves and have worked out a solution.

 

During my next visit we'll survey your loft, I think without windows and vertical walls (no book cases) it could be the ideal location for Peterborough North.

 

Your opinion please. (On a self addressed envelope)

 

Dave

[Gravy Train]

Hi all,

hope Gilbert doesn't mind me posting this 3/4 shot of the water tank.