Peterborough North

[great northern]

JEFFP, I too prefer the 'Witte' smoke deflectors....and the double chimney, especially with a GN tender, and as 60100.  I thought the improvements were exactly that!

 

I like the Brits, it's just that angle....maybe the bigger tender versions would look better.

 

edit - 60100 would be one hell of a cop at Peterborough!

I too like the Brits. Even when looking to produce a more easily maintained machine,and in a time of austerity, British loco designers still didn't neglect the aesthetic side of things. I wonder if the problem with the three quarter view is that the high running plate makes the front bogie wheels look very small, and gives an odd effect?

 

On the subject of A3's though, I'm in the opposite camp, as to me the original design looks just about perfect from any angle. I'm always a bit ambivalent about the double chimney, which made them look a bit top heavy, but nevertheless on balance I still liked it. The German deflectors though ruined the loco for me, just totally alien to British practice, and spoiling the whole thing.

 

As to 60100, it was one hell of a cop for me on an "unofficial" visit to the Crimpsall in August 1958. We crept in during lunch time, and though we still couldn't get in to the main shop - too many people about, Spearmint was on its own to one side, absolutely filthy. What's more, Railway Observer records her as being at PN both before and after that overhaul. I shall resist.

[great northern]

Time for a dumb question. Even the sage of St Neots couldn't give me a precise answer to this one, but he bets JWeallans can. What's the reason for two types of pipe?  TW says that the "dangly" ones were used on end door stock, for practical reasons, and that is perfectly logical. Why didn't I think of that?

 

Is that the only reason though? Things are rarely that simple, so is it another case of "It was done like that except when it wasn't"?

[jwealleans]

I'm afraid I'm going to be a disappointment to both you and Andy, Gilbert.  I don't know why the upright vac pipe was preferred.  TW is quite right about the hanging ones, they were often used on end door vehicles such as those littering your parcels bay for obvious reasons.  Up to BR days, though, the upright pipe seems to have been the installation of choice wherever possible.  I can't see that the pipe needed to be kept clear of anything, I'm not sure it helped shunters couple or uncouple and i| can't see any advantage from an inspection or maintenance point of view (maybe they got less road dirt thrown onto them?)

 

BR seem to have been a bit less focussed on them and a great many vans and brake vans which the Big Four would have put upright pipes on were given hanging ones.  In my own observation, anyway.

 

Perhaps I'll post it as a query on the BR Yahoo group.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm afraid I'm going to be a disappointment to both you and Andy, Gilbert.  I don't know why the upright vac pipe was preferred.  TW is quite right about the hanging ones, they were often used on end door vehicles such as those littering your parcels bay for obvious reasons.  Up to BR days, though, the upright pipe seems to have been the installation of choice wherever possible.  I can't see that the pipe needed to be kept clear of anything, I'm not sure it helped shunters couple or uncouple and i| can't see any advantage from an inspection or maintenance point of view (maybe they got less road dirt thrown onto them?)

 

BR seem to have been a bit less focussed on them and a great many vans and brake vans which the Big Four would have put upright pipes on were given hanging ones.  In my own observation, anyway.

 

Perhaps I'll post it as a query on the BR Yahoo group.

Relatively simple answer - it is far easier to join 'high level' vac bags, far easier.  

 

In addition - and an important point on freight trains - the high level bags are well clear of the couplings so aren't likely to get parted by accidentally being banged as couplings slack off or go taut - important to remember that unlike the situation on passenger the vac bags on freight trains were not pinned, they simply relied on the mechanical engagement of the two end pieces and the seal provided by the washers.  The reason for that was also simple, once the vacuum had been destroyed (philosophical question - how can you destroy nothing?) and the strings had been pulled to release the vac brake the wagons would simply part when uncoupled with no need for anyone to go in between to part the pipes - ok so occasionally things would go wrong and a vacuum bag would be pulled of the standpipe but usually they parted or they could be flicked apart with a shunting pole.  And that faciilty made it far quicker, and safer, to break up a vac fitted train or vehicles when shunting.

[jwealleans]

Perhaps a daft question, Mike, but you mention couplings slacking off or going taut - weren't they screwed up when the vac pipes were connected?

[Mallard60022]

JW - yes, if the shunter/Guard were vigilant re. screw-up.

Am I missing something though? Loads of wagons only had three link so there was no screw up there!

The 'high level bags' were well clear of the couplings as Stationmaster says and thus easier to check visually as well as join up as he says.

As always, an interesting one.

P

Edited January 25, 2013 by Mallard60022

[LNER4479]

Western Region...Instanters perhaps? Bit of a 'half way house'?

[New Haven Neil]

Ah, my love of 60100 comes from reading 'Engineman Elite' by 'Toram Beg' - Norman someone, although it turned out later some of the anecdotes in it were attributed to other drivers and he was being, er, less than truthful.  She certainly was clean then, but in the only shot I have of her (by E E Smith) she is absolutely filthy, yes.  As a Haymarket (or was it St Margarets? It's been years since I read it last) loco she would have been seen in Newcastle of course, so I'm safe with her!

 

I thought Gresley A1's looked rather ill proportioned as built #ducks#, with the taller boiler mountings, and subsequent A3's looked better, and the double chimney versions the best of all, injecting a touch of modernity into them.  I realise the deflectors are a very personal thing, but there we go, we're all different, again I thought they made the old girls look modern and powerful.

 

Nice cop though Gilbert, that did surprise me!  Don't resist, she was one of the best.....

[great northern]

We haven't had any engine change type pictures for a good while, and I've just got to the last one of my working day, so I thought I'd feature it. The fact that the camera was pointing away from all those lattice posts in every shot was an added inducement.

 

 

Brancepeth Castle arrives with the 5.15pm Colchester -Edinburgh, which has already taken four hours to get this far, and a lot more hours will pass before it reaches its destination. There are no luxuries like sleeping cars either.

 

The loco was built from the Crownline kit about 12 years ago. Personally, I think the new Hornby model is better. For a start I have always thought the front end appearance of this kit is too heavy, particularly from this angle.

 

 

At the North end, Gateshead's A2 Velocity is waiting to relieve the B17. Now, this shot I do like, for several reasons. It is now 9.00pm on my sequence, which in August would be around sunset, and I think that this does give an impression of fading light. Having said that, I am given to flights of self delusion. I also think that Tim's weathering job on this loco really shows up very well, to me anyway it looks just right.

 

 

In fact I liked it so much, I thought we'd have a close up. I really must weather those lamps......

 

 

And a more overall view too, why not?

 

 

And another look at the B17. I really like this sky for this time of the day, and the light seems to come from the right direction too.

 

 

I just couldn't resist seeing how this might come out. For a bit of pure fantasy, it doesn't too bad, does it? I'd steer clear of the giant holly bush in the right foreground though. If only I could find a photo of the real thing from this angle back in '58. Small chance I'm afraid, and even less chance of it being in colour.

 

Golf club AGM tonight, and I have to be there, which with an amber warning for a blizzard perfectly timed to coincide is a bit annoying. I can get there by car probably, but getting back home up my local hill could be a very different matter, so I shall venture out on foot, taking the back route across fields to get onto the far side of the golf course, as it is a much shorter distance that way. It's over two miles using the main roads. I may be gone for some time, but I sincerely hope not as long as Capt Oates!

 

I've just realised, I've wiped out the City of Peterborough.

Edited January 25, 2013 by great northern

[New Haven Neil]

Ohh, the N5 and the C12 in one post!

 

May I be permitted a teensy little nit pick?  The bright copper cylinder drain pipes on a weathered loco......copper oxide is black.  I doubt these pipes would look anything other than that on a loco that dirty.  It's a superb weathering job, but those pipes jar with me a smidge.  (A smidge is a metric unit of measurement by the way).

 

I feel guilty saying it now!

[andyrush]

You haven't shown what is doing the attaching move at the rear! PN must have more pilots than a dog has fleas.... 

Good luck with the snowy walk   

[Mallard60022]

Neil      "Ah, my love of 60100 comes from reading 'Engineman Elite' by 'Toram Beg' - Norman someone, although it turned out later some of the anecdotes in it were attributed to other drivers and he was being, er, less than truthful". 

Norman MacKillop: Spearmint was 'his' engine. I must dig out the book I have by him - not the one above.

Quack

 

Gilbert, you have exceeded all previous efforts with that last shot. It is absolutely superb and I'll even forgive the CL Signal (boo - we want 'pegs').

The first shot really shows how beautifully your points have been built; just look at those little 'jigs' in the rails where the switches seat themselves - lovely.

I do hope you have the Notts and Lincs Air Ambulance on speed dial? Good luck.

Quack (in a chime sounding sort of way).

Edited January 25, 2013 by Mallard60022

[New Haven Neil]

MacKillop, yes, thank you Mr High Speed Duck - my mind is still a bit fuzzy due to being on a lot of naughty painkillers still.

 

Gilbert's photos have really started hitting the imagination now, giant holly aside I love that last set.  Inspiration in spades, and he still resists time and area interlopers too!  More power to your lens, sir.

[45568]

I've just realised, I've wiped out the City of Peterborough.

 And some would say that's no bad thing!!! 

Cheers, (36C today for Australia Day),

Peter C.

[Mallard60022]

Calling Mr Oates, calling Mr Oates, come in Mr Oates; you have been outside far too long and oh yes, don't use yellow snow for the tea please.

G, are you back and safe buddy? Some plonker dumped some more white stuff all over 36E last evening so hope you didn't get caught?

Quack

[New Haven Neil]

Are you allowed to wear snow shoes on a golf course?

[great northern]

You haven't shown what is doing the attaching move at the rear! PN must have more pilots than a dog has fleas.... 

Good luck with the snowy walk   

Three station pilots back in '58 Andy, so my two C12's and the N5 will perform those. How do you know what was happening at the rear? You can't see the back of the train.

[Mallard60022]

Ah, you are alive......

P

[great northern]

Calling Mr Oates, calling Mr Oates, come in Mr Oates; you have been outside far too long and oh yes, don't use yellow snow for the tea please.

G, are you back and safe buddy? Some plonker dumped some more white stuff all over 36E last evening so hope you didn't get caught?

Quack

It was all a bit of a damp squib Phil. Nice and clear as I walked to the Club, and plenty of light to walk safely with all the snow on the ground. A bit of freezing rain on the way back, but nothing to worry about. No ploughing heroically through waist high drifts or anything like that.

 

Unfortunately when I got home some very bad news was waiting for me, so I'm not in a mood for laughing and joking just now. I can't say more yet, but all will become clear later.

[Mallard60022]

Apologies.

P

[great northern]

Apologies.

P

None needed Phil - you weren't to know. I was just trying to explain that I'm not my normal cheery self today.

[great northern]

OK everyone, I can now disclose the reason for my less than happy state. Please go to Modelling Musings, as I don't want to repeat it all here. It should be up shortly. At least I now don't have to deal with this all by myself.

[great northern]

Since Friday evening my train set has become very trivial and inconsequential to me - there seemed no point in posting anything, and any thought of the usual light hearted banter seemed completely wrong. Today I have realised how stupid a reaction that was.

 

This layout exists partly because of my friend Dave Shakespeare. I well remember sitting with him and bemoaning yet again the deficiencies of my old layout, then saying that for two pins I'd knock my two spare bedrooms into one and build a layout in the large space that would create. "Why don't you ?" he said - "Too expensive" I replied. " No it's not" said he, and used his experience of building to show me why it would not be. Subsequently I discussed with him the pros and cons of what would be a big step to take, and his advice was very instrumental in my decision to go ahead. He has been a constant inspiration and source of encouragement to me ever since, as indeed he had been before the decision was made.

 

So, it it weren't for Dave, you probably wouldn't be reading this, and I wouldn't have had many many hours of happiness. And what should I, indeed all of us, learn from the awful thing that has struck Dave? Surely that we just don't know what is round the corner, and that we should enjoy every day granted to us while we can, and laugh and enjoy ourselves as much as possible. If I sit around moping it won't help Dave, and I suspect that I'd get the sharp end of his tongue if I did, so I'm carrying on as normal, and I hope everyone else will too. It isn't wrong to take enjoyment from life despite horrible things like this happening. If Dave can retain his wonderful sense of humour at a time like this, what excuse do the rest of us have for not doing the same?

 

A parcel arrived on Saturday, and though I knew what it would contain it remained unopened till today, when I realised how pointless that was. Here then are some shots of my latest acquisition, which will join the locos that currently work the Peterborough East - Leicester trains. They aren't among my best efforts, but they were taken to make a point rather than to seek technical satisfaction. The blue sky too was a very deliberate choice. Dave will remain very much in my thoughts, and I shall do everything in my power to help him and carry out his wishes.I  am sure that you too will have him and his family in mind, and like me hope against hope for a successful outcome, but let's keep the thread that he was so instrumental in starting the lively and friendly place to visit that it has always been.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldddudders]

Sensitive but sensible thinking - I'm glad you've found a way to bounce back a little. This site exists to inspire - and you and Mr S have each done a huge amount of that, TVM. Keeping your marvellous show on this road is the best tribute you can pay to your pal and his positive influence, while we all keep fingers and toes firmly crossed for better news. 

[The Stationmaster]

Perhaps a daft question, Mike, but you mention couplings slacking off or going taut - weren't they screwed up when the vac pipes were connected?

Sorry I missed this previously JW although Mallard has given an answer.  BSeveral reasons - firstly as already mentioned the things were not always screwed up with the required degree of tautness and in any case there was a very slight slack (1.5 inches so I was told 40 years ago!) and - something I forgot previously - low level pipes when disconnected were possibly more susceptible to damage from swinging couplings, especially the lever on a screw coupling I would think.

 

Instanters - yes, used in vacuum fitted parts of trains they were supposed to be in the short position which in theory kept the buferheads about as far apart as a tightened screw coupling (in theory).