RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Gilbert, is there any chance you could 'oil round' a Triplet Set and whilst at it, take a pic of the undergubbins on the First Diner? Strange request I know, but I've lost my Comet Triplet destructions and want to make sure the under chassis area for the First is 'dressed' correctly. Sorry to be a pain. You may also have noticed that I should be at Donny now but I'm not. Slight relapse on the stupid virus front (again) I'm afraid and so mad duck disease has forced me to sit in the sun in the window bay (nice, except there is no railway outside to look at) and I shall miss out on meeting with some Webbers. ATB Quackers. Edited February 8, 2015 by Mallard60022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post great northern Posted February 8, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2015 Sunday seems to have become photography day, so I've had another play around in the hope of improving things a bit. First though, I have taken an incredibly interesting photo of the blinds in the railway room, so that you can see what I have got, and, as it is a very sunny day, what I am up against. This had to be stopped down to one thirtieth of a second to get it as dark as this.Now, I realise that anything else will come as an anticlimax after you have feasted your eyes on this remarkable image, but nevertheless, I decided to take a few more. At the end of Wednesday's visit from my mates Rob and Mick of Wolverhampton MRC, we had an ECS train in Platform 6, and an A4 in number 4 bay, waiting to take over the Northumbrian. This is probably the best time of day for the spotters, who get to see first a Heaton engine, and then a Gateshead one in quick succession. Green Arrow on the ECS will be somewhat less exciting, but they will have plenty of time to admire her, as she will wait here for half an hour before she can carry on towards Doncaster. 52A must be even more short of locos than usual, as they have turned out Golden Eagle, still with single chimney, and about to be called in for shopping, for one of the more prestigious trains. The Northumbrian will be with us shortly, but we have time to wander down the platform to feast our eyes on that lovely Claud again. A five minute trip down to Peterborough East shouldn't be too taxing for the old lady. I had a cunning plan today. In yet another attempt to overcome the problems caused by the sun, I deliberately got everything too dark, reduced highlights as much as possible, and planned on increasing brightness only at the end of the process. Sadly, it didn't really work, and I still got roofs in particular being bleached out, and thus prime candidates for the gremlins that take chunks out when photoshopping. I have also tried an number of different skies, and if anyone would care to tell me which they prefer it would be much appreciated. So here is another view of 62613, with a different variety of clouds. Before we get to the Northumbrian, we have a KX- Doncaster semi fast, so now there are three examples of Gresley's big engine policy lined up almost side by side. 60046 is in charge of the Doncaster train today. 60046 having departed, the Northumbrian arrives behind Top Shed's Lord Faringdon. The differing standards of cleanliness bewteen 34A and 52A are all too apparent in this shot. A WD has now clanked its way along the Down slow, where it will have to wait for a path to New England. 60034 is about to come off its train and head for New England too, but for now there are no less than seven locomotives to be seen in this one shot. That's all folks - the rest got binned for various reasons. Don't forget, your votes count. Will it be sunny or gloomy at PN from now on? 30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2015 In real life I prefer a sunny day like nearly everyone else, but here I feel the moody and slightly threatening clouds complement the layout pictures better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2015 I really like the last sky. Mad Duck of 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold fishytrains Posted February 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2015 I like the sky in the last photo. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Blooming Eck - the Mad Duck has changed his missus yet again! Gilbert the problem with your blinds is that they are venetian so will inevitably throw lines across the layout. Sadly what works for a lounge or bedroom is rarely right for a train room Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2015 Errrr, both, Gilbert? I prefer to ring the changes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Who cares about the sky - that's a Claud we have there! Stewart 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hello Gilbert, I like those photos a lot. One of the things about real life is that distance makes colours more muted to the eye. That's why colour doesn't scale... If you use exactly the prototype green on a model it will look too bright as in real life you'd rarely be 2' from the loco. To me, the brighter sunlight that annoys you washes out the colour somewhat giving, I think, more "scaled" colours that convey a greater depth. But maybe that's just me. Either way, post whatever you can, as they always inspire. Kind regards, Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 Blooming Eck - the Mad Duck has changed his missus yet again! Gilbert the problem with your blinds is that they are venetian so will inevitably throw lines across the layout. Sadly what works for a lounge or bedroom is rarely right for a train room Ah, but you see Peter, I can close them. That deals with the lines, but as can be seen, when the sun is out it still penetrates rather too well. Actually, it is probably worse this time of year when it is so low in the sky. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Gilbert, this may come under the heading of 'daft ideas that are a bit extreme', but what about getting a couple of cheap cotton sheets from your local pound shop and making up a frame of 2x1 then stretching the sheet across so that you can rest the frame on the flooring against the wall - that way you'd add a layer of diffusion, without eliminating all the light, you wouldn't need to fix anything to the wall and risk the layout, and you could hopefully reach across the yard to slide them away from the window when it's dreich outside and you want the light coming in? Peter 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Actually I think you can get a springy, openy up fabric diffuser thingy (techical description) that photographers use? It will be more expensive than Peter's clever idea, however it could serve several purposes in different places. It's the sort of thing they use when whizzing around homes to do portrait shoots of ducks, dogs, children, grannies etc. (at vast cost to the consumer no doubt?) Good morning, Q Edited February 9, 2015 by Mallard60022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) One of the things about real life is that distance makes colours more muted to the eye. That's why colour doesn't scale... If you use exactly the prototype green on a model it will look too bright as in real life you'd rarely be 2' from the loco. To me, the brighter sunlight that annoys you washes out the colour somewhat giving, I think, more "scaled" colours that convey a greater depth. First of all Gilberts pictures are over exposed. Far from this being a criticism, it helps show detail. Most railway photographers (of the real thing) over-expose for the same reason. As for real railway paints, put real GCR green on a model and it doesn't look lighter. Far from it, it looks darker! It has been a well-aired view since the 1940's, and maybe before that, that it is better to slightly lighten real railway colours that are applied to models. Personally I have always preferred not to bastardise colours and therefore used matches of real railway colours throughout my professional life. My Midland Lake and BR loco green is darker than anything one will find on the shelves of RTR models. Hornby's BR loco green looks bleached and the only time I saw anything akin to it in steam days was on locos that had been in open storage throughout the winter months. The green bodywork had never been cleaned and had dried out and bleached. On locos in traffic, (not those straight out of the paintshop) the green was so dark that it came over as an oily bronzed colour and looked almost black from a distance. The only green I ever saw that stood out was on the big passenger ex GWR 4-6-0's standing around Chester in the mid 1950s. Edited February 9, 2015 by coachmann 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 Gilbert, is there any chance you could 'oil round' a Triplet Set and whilst at it, take a pic of the undergubbins on the First Diner? Strange request I know, but I've lost my Comet Triplet destructions and want to make sure the under chassis area for the First is 'dressed' correctly. Sorry to be a pain. You may also have noticed that I should be at Donny now but I'm not. Slight relapse on the stupid virus front (again) I'm afraid and so mad duck disease has forced me to sit in the sun in the window bay (nice, except there is no railway outside to look at) and I shall miss out on meeting with some Webbers. ATB Quackers. As it happens Phil, the Northumbrian, complete with triplet, was sitting in Platform 3, so it was no problem to take a photo or two as it left. I did all three while I had the camera, just in case it may help. Sorry to hear about the virus mate, but it was a nice day to sit in the sun. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Thanks Gilbert. Really appreciate that and you can probably guess why I asked! However, I realise yours must be the 'long set' ex Scotsman. Presumably the 'short set' layout was similar? Looks like the undergubbins is almost identical on both 1st and 2nd coaches. That's a very nice looking Triplet too. I'll copy those pics to my coach details file, just for our use if that's OK? Phil P.S. Poxy bug would appear to be the 'Morrison's Flu'; I seem to get an infection every time I go into somewhere with Air Con. SWMBO does not believe this however! Edited February 9, 2015 by Mallard60022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 Gilbert, this may come under the heading of 'daft ideas that are a bit extreme', but what about getting a couple of cheap cotton sheets from your local pound shop and making up a frame of 2x1 then stretching the sheet across so that you can rest the frame on the flooring against the wall - that way you'd add a layer of diffusion, without eliminating all the light, you wouldn't need to fix anything to the wall and risk the layout, and you could hopefully reach across the yard to slide them away from the window when it's dreich outside and you want the light coming in? Peter Not so daft Peter. Andy Y brought some foamboard with him a while back when he came to do a photoshoot, with the idea that it could be attached to the blinds and cut down the glare. Good idea, but alas I could find nothing with which to attach it. Some sort of removeable widget as you suggest might well be the answer. The trouble is that I would then have lost an excuse for my photographic deficiencies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks Gilbert. Really appreciate that and you can probably guess why I asked! However, I realise yours must be the 'long set' ex Scotsman. Presumably the 'short set' layout was similar? Looks like the undergubbins is almost identical on both 1st and 2nd coaches. That's a very nice looking Triplet too. I'll copy those pics forto my coach details file, just our use if that's OK? Phil P.S. Poxy bug would appear to be the 'Morrison's Flu'; I seem to get an infection every time I go into somewhere with Air Con. SWMBO does not beleive this however! Please do copy them Phil, no problem with that. As to your bug, if you are suggesting that it gives you a reason why you cannot go supermarket shopping, I'm not surprised that SWMBO is somewhat cynical about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2015 As for real railway paints, put real GCR green on a model and it doesn't look lighter. Far from it, it looks darker! It has been a well-aired view since the 1940's, and maybe before that, that it is better to slightly lighten real railway colours that are applied to models. Personally I have always preferred not to bastardise colours and therefore used matches of real railway colours throughout my professional life. Larry, I agree fully with what you have said here. It was my poor choice of word that makes it look like I didn't. By brighter I didn't mean lighter, but richer. Hence me thinking that Gilbert's photos as slightly slightly bleached out add a greater sense of depth. I would agree with you that matching the colour of the model to the real colour is the way to go. And the models you produce are a fantastic testament to that being the way to go. But when trying to make a photo look like the real thing, some manipulation through strong lighting or over exposure helps. It all depends on whether you are wanting a picture that is showing off the model as it is and at it's best, or trying to reproduce a picture of the prototype. I like seeing both! Regards, Neil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted February 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 First of all Gilberts pictures are over exposed. Far from this being a criticism, it helps show detail. Most railway photographers (of the real thing) over-expose for the same reason. As for real railway paints, put real GCR green on a model and it doesn't look lighter. Far from it, it looks darker! It has been a well-aired view since the 1940's, and maybe before that, that it is better to slightly lighten real railway colours that are applied to models. Personally I have always preferred not to bastardise colours and therefore used matches of real railway colours throughout my professional life. My Midland Lake and BR loco green is darker than anything one will find on the shelves of RTR models. Hornby's BR loco green looks bleached and the only time I saw anything akin to it in steam days was on locos that had been in open storage throughout the winter months. The green bodywork had never been cleaned and had dried out and bleached. On locos in traffic, (not those straight out of the paintshop) the green was so dark that it came over as an oily bronzed colour and looked almost black from a distance. The only green I ever saw that stood out was on the big passenger ex GWR 4-6-0's standing around Chester in the mid 1950s. Thanks Larry, now I know why I always think things look better when I over expose them! I totally agree as regards Hornby's version of BR green, and I think that is shown up by the difference between the standard Hornby A3 and A4 in the images further up the page, and the A4 which Tim has worked on. To me, that looks far more like the real thing. It would be interesting to see what effect some fairly heavy weathering would have on that finish, and compare it with the view of 60002, but the trouble is that one finds it difficult to cover over a finish like that on 60034. By the way, I'm sure I saw a post from you mentioning the clutter that I manage to get in the way of whatever I'm supposed to be featuring, but I can't find it now. Please don't hesitate to pick up on things Larry. I value your knowledge and experience, and I will not be offended by constructive criticism. I do know what I should be doing, but it is often very hard to manage to achieve best practice. Particularly at the North end things are quite compressed, and it becomes difficult to compose a shot that doesn't have poles or other clutter getting in where it shouldn't. I'm afraid that is only going to get worse, as there are more posts in particular that should go in. In the shot of the A3 A4 and V2 above, I moved the A4 several times in an effort to get an unobstructed view, but it proved to be impossible to do that and get the other two locos in as well, so I tried to use the water crane as a frame through which it could be viewed. Actually, I'm amazed at how much I picked up from my parents, who were both members of the Royal Photographic Society, just by listening to them talking about photo composition, even though I was at the time the obligatory rebellious teenager who thought he knew better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The whole colour issue of course is 'coloured' ( pardon the pun) by the passing of time, weather and UV light. As anyone who recalls ever buying a car pre acrylic paint, it faded and bloomed over time, so a five year old motor had little chance of retaining it's showroom gleam. Many is the lost hour of my youth spent rubbing T-Cut into faded panels to try to restore their lustre, but then that was my fault for taking an apprenticeship with our local branch of Daley (A) & Associates Fine Used Cars to get my work experience going. It was exactly the same with railway stock. Especially when you add a bit of dust and groom, the colours just don't reflect the ex-works look. I've never gone in for loco building, or even stock for that matter, because the idea of taking the kind of time and attention that someone like Larry or Tony W does, then throwing half a ton of various shades of Sh1T on top of it would be heartbreaking. Yet, everyone raves about weathered stock and how much more realistic it looks! Certainly from my experience in 00, weathering both fades and lightens colours. I have a B17 floating around somewhere that I resprayed black from LNER green and couldn't be bothered lining, so I got out the weathering kit. The best description of its colour now is 'oily rust.' On a B&W Photo it would look pale grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Something I've never seen mentioned, is that locos were cleaned with oily cotton waste (been there myself doing it at Blackpool!). This imparts a shine, but darkens the colour of the paint. Stewart Edited February 9, 2015 by stewartingram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2015 Soething I've never seen entioned, is that locos were cleaned with oily cotton waste (been there yself doing it at Blackpool!). This iparts a shine, but darkens the colour of the paint. Stewart I believe the normal method in later years - long after brickdust had gone out of fashion - was to use a cocktail of paraffin (or lamp oil?) mixed with a bit of oil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 ...and still they stood beside these oily locos and smoked away like the chimneys atop them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) yes! Pro sky replacement there Gilbert, love the moody shot looking back at the station! Edited February 9, 2015 by Corbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) As it happens Phil, the Northumbrian, complete with triplet, was sitting in Platform 3, so it was no problem to take a photo or two as it left. I did all three while I had the camera, just in case it may help. Sorry to hear about the virus mate, but it was a nice day to sit in the sun. Diner 1.jpg diner 2.jpg diner 3.jpg Heavy Duty bogies throughout; is that correct as stated in Harris? This Set I'm doing is the 1928 version (Turnbuckle UF - never replaced I believe?) Thanks again. P Edited February 9, 2015 by Mallard60022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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