Southeast Finecast and other LT kits

[Jeff Smith]

Being a Londoner and vaguely remembering seeing red steam locomotives crossing the Dollis Viaduct behind my house and at Neasden from the North Circular, I have been drawn to modelling LT in P4.  Here is the existing fleet.  L45 from a Keyser/Brunel kit, L54 from a Mercian etched kit and Bo-Bo No 5 John Hampden from styrene.  Also a Met rigid 8 wheel etched coach from Roxey Mouldings and a Met Dreadnought in resin from Radley.  The first L91 repainted Bachmann converted to P4 with roof mod and tripcocks.  Colours, particularly reds are very difficult to photograph.  L45 and L54 are actually the same red (Badger Milwaukee Maroon).  This places my period in the late 1950's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now an RT Models etched Hurst Nelson brake van - awaiting paint touch-up and transfers.

 

 

So when Rapido announced the E Class I was very tempted and placed a pre-order for L44 with the intention of installing Gibson P4 wheels.  I also ordered a SEF F Class.  The F Class is a very nice model and got me thinking about The Rapido E Class.  Someone posted a comment that he found another Rapido loco rather hard to convert so I cancelled the Rapido order and ordered a SEF E Class......

 

First the F Class - awaiting wheels.  Chassis part built with High Level motor and g/b driving rigid rear driver with front and centre drivers compensated with a central beam.  Again Milwaukee red initial painting.

 

 

 

 

 

Now the E Class parts and main assembly started.  The chassis fret has OO, EM and P4 spacers.  High Level motor and g/b will be used.

 

 

 

 

My recent white metal kits have been old K's kits - these SEF kits are considerably better and of course both have etched chassis and cab glazing.

[Erixtar1992]

Fantastic work.  I have a pair of A class locos, though i just cant get them running. Not sure what motor i have but its not the best and i think i need new wheels, the keyway bit is buggered so impossible to get them in the correct position.

 

how do you find the white metal F class? After owning various Harrow Model Shop kits im put off with white metal stuff due to it being so flimsy.

[Jeff Smith]

I wouldn't call white metal flimsy but I do have three of the original Harrow Model Shop Standard Stock cars - assembled they are very tough and very heavy.

 

Presumably your A Class are kit-built - white metal or 3D?  What type of wheels are you using?

[Fair Oak Junction]

Great collection there, always love a bit of LT.

[Jeff Smith]

Progress on the Classes E and F.  First couple of coats brush painted.  A very old US Maroon from Accuflex - long since discontinued (and looking much brighter in the pictures) and Vallejo black gray.  Interesting to see the difference in length - Class E nearer and on the left.  I'm guessing that the cab superstructure was red inside but please let me know if incorrect!  These kits went together well but I'm guessing from different designers - eg front splashers were cast on the footplate on the F but separately in the E.  Also there is rivet detail on the F but not the E.

 

 

[roythebus1]

As I've mentioned before, I produced a whitemetal kit for the F class back in the late 1970's, early 1980s. Kemilway were going to produce an etched chassis kit but never did, so the kit never sold well. I still have enough parts to make another 25 bodies.

 

I'm currently building the SEF etched chassis which fits under my kits, but for some reason the buffers seem to sit 2mm too high. There's some doubt about the driving wheel diameter. I no longer have the original LT large-scale drawing and the pattern maker died many years ago, he used to make a lot of limitary figures and stuff for Langley Models. I'd be interested to know if the buffer height is right on the SEF body and chassis combination and a view under the footplate of the SEF body kit. 

 

I tried fitting a Kean Portescap motor unit as I have several in stock but they are just too high to fit, so a High Level gearbox will be the answer. I've just built one of those for the Comet chassis for the Airfix 4F and it runs remarkably smoothly. The orogial chassis idea with Kemilway was to mount a motor parallel on the cahssis driving through an extended shaft to a gearbox on the leading axle, hence the key-shaped cut-out under the smokebox on my kit. Incidentally, my patterns used etched brass masters for the tank sides and other parts that had lots of rivets, possibly the first patterns to use this method. I also produced waterslide transfer for it. :)

 

 

[roythebus1]

I've also recently built the SEF LT brake van, a nice little kit but heavy!! Even with finely adjust top hat brass bearings and decent wheels, it it difficult to get it to run freely. At the tail of lightweight plastic wagons it may well derail the wagons with the weight.

[Mr. Tree Man]

The tank engines are looking very smart in the maroon and the Vallejo black gray looks like a good match for soot-covered/burnt paint. Is the maroon of the E and F close to L45 and L54 from the first post or do they represent a different era, region etc.

For the cab, Rapido and the preserved one in Met colours indicate a cream cab from the base of the portholes upward, would this be similar for LT or are they likely to have changed to all red in subsequent ownerships?

 

Great work 👍

 

[Jeff Smith]

1 hour ago, roythebus1 said:

As I've mentioned before, I produced a whitemetal kit for the F class back in the late 1970's, early 1980s. Kemilway were going to produce an etched chassis kit but never did, so the kit never sold well. I still have enough parts to make another 25 bodies.

 

I'm currently building the SEF etched chassis which fits under my kits, but for some reason the buffers seem to sit 2mm too high. There's some doubt about the driving wheel diameter. I no longer have the original LT large-scale drawing and the pattern maker died many years ago, he used to make a lot of limitary figures and stuff for Langley Models. I'd be interested to know if the buffer height is right on the SEF body and chassis combination and a view under the footplate of the SEF body kit. 

 

I tried fitting a Kean Portescap motor unit as I have several in stock but they are just too high to fit, so a High Level gearbox will be the answer. I've just built one of those for the Comet chassis for the Airfix 4F and it runs remarkably smoothly. The orogial chassis idea with Kemilway was to mount a motor parallel on the cahssis driving through an extended shaft to a gearbox on the leading axle, hence the key-shaped cut-out under the smokebox on my kit. Incidentally, my patterns used etched brass masters for the tank sides and other parts that had lots of rivets, possibly the first patterns to use this method. I also produced waterslide transfer for it. :)

 

 

I will post a couple of pictures of the underside which may help.  I have not received the wheels from Gibson yet but the size is 5'2" 16 spoke (4S62E, P4).  The motor for both locos will be 1020FE and g/b Road Runner Compact, both from High Level.

 

On the F it will be on the fixed rear driver, with the centre and front compensated on a simple centre beam.  The rear wheels will be sprung downward in axle slots.

[Jeff Smith]

1 hour ago, Mr. Tree Man said:

The tank engines are looking very smart in the maroon and the Vallejo black gray looks like a good match for soot-covered/burnt paint. Is the maroon of the E and F close to L45 and L54 from the first post or do they represent a different era, region etc.

For the cab, Rapido and the preserved one in Met colours indicate a cream cab from the base of the portholes upward, would this be similar for LT or are they likely to have changed to all red in subsequent ownerships?

 

Great work 👍

 

The colour used for L45 and L54 is Milwaukee Maroon (Badger) this seemed good but looks too bright in photos.  I bought a new bottle for the F and E but on reflection is a bit bright so substituted DM&IR Maroon from a very old Accuflex bottle.  I think this is what I used for the BoBo which was scratch built.

 

The first L91 was painted by Swindon before delivery to LT and is a brighter red than subsequent panniers painted by LT - reference, pictures in 'Red Panniers' show it next to L46 in mid 1957 as well as standing on it's own.  I have no pictures of the cab interiors but cream sounds good.

 

The Vallejo black gray is very matt - one of the air reservoirs on the F has been painted with Vallejo satin varnish which will look good for all the black.....

Edited March 15 by Jeff Smith

[Jeff Smith]

30 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

I will post a couple of pictures of the underside which may help.

 

 

[roythebus1]

Thanks, that's helpful. I suspect the Romford drivers I got are 22mm, not 20.-something. If I use 20mm wheels it seems to sit at an acceptable height.

 

Maroon fades with age.If I could work out how to get a picture from my iphone onto here I'd show you an example on my GS bus, painted maroon. It's faded to a browny colour after about 10 years. 

[Jeff Smith]

The various colour pictures in books I have of E and F Class can be confusing due to lighting and level of dirt or lack of cleaning.  Some appear to show the boiler, dome, etc in black.  Some show wheels and coupling rods in black......  However I generally finish my models ex-works!

 

You could open rmweb in safari on your iphone and then upload the picture.....

[roythebus1]

Maybe I'll give that a try, it's all too confusing for me, even the Apple help desk are confused and don't know why when I want to use the box below that says "choose files" it doesn't show my "pictures" as an option. why are Apple such a pain?

 

[t-b-g]

Lovely stuff. Although not a big LT enthusiast, I have been helping g a friend finish some ancient Harrow Model Shop carriages to go with the kit built electric he built many years ago. I ended up hand lettering (not my greatest skill) the carriages as the transfers supplied with the kit were pretty poor.

 

The lettering on the ones illustrated is much better. Are the transfers used still available and where might I obtain some please? They would be an improvement on my efforts.

[St Enodoc]

On 23/02/2024 at 13:31, Jeff Smith said:

red steam locomotives crossing the Dollis Viaduct

On the Mill Hill East branch? I don't remember red LT steamers but occasionally in the very early 60s there was a black BR N2 on the Edgware goods. Our primary school backed on to the line between MHE and The Hale.

 

@manna might know more.

[Jeff Smith]

I'm not sure whose responsibility it would have been to lift the rails past MHE, BR or LT after Edgeware closure in 1964.  But LT might have been involved in lifting rail in the headshunt opposite MHE platform when the MHE yard and gas works closed in 1962.

[Lord of Narnia]

23 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Lovely stuff. Although not a big LT enthusiast, I have been helping g a friend finish some ancient Harrow Model Shop carriages to go with the kit built electric he built many years ago. I ended up hand lettering (not my greatest skill) the carriages as the transfers supplied with the kit were pretty poor.

 

The lettering on the ones illustrated is much better. Are the transfers used still available and where might I obtain some please? They would be an improvement on my efforts.

 

Modelmaster used to do them. Not sure what’s going on with them. Found some on Fox transfers website. They are for buses but might well work ok.

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/fleet-name-london-transport

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/white-fleet-number-set-stl-g-d-b-rt-srt-plus-pairs-101-200

Edited March 16 by Lord of Narnia

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Lord of Narnia said:

 

Modelmaster used to do them. Not sure what’s going on with them. Found some on Fox transfers website. They are for buses but might well work ok.

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/fleet-name-london-transport

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/white-fleet-number-set-stl-g-d-b-rt-srt-plus-pairs-101-200

 

Many thanks. I had spotted those but I wasn't sure if they would be the correct size for the carriages. The waist panels are quite small!

 

Doh! Just spotted the sizes are shown on the website! Next time I visit my friend I will measure the carriages and see if they will fit.

Edited March 16 by t-b-g
To add content

[Jeff Smith]

With reference to the trailing wheels on the E Class, does anyone know if it is a centre pivoted bogie or fixed wheels on the prototype?

[roythebus1]

It was a centre pivoted bogie. I started making a live steam version back in 1974 but had to leave it in 1976, bus restoration and family got in the way! There's odd bits I remember from the official LT works drawing. I converted a Triang M7 into an E class back in the day. It didn't look too bad in those days.

[Jeff Smith]

Thanks, the SEF version is a centre pivot bogie but seems to fit between the frames however until I fit the compensation beam between the rear driver and the bogie I won't know whether it will clear the frames or not.

[t-b-g]

On 16/03/2024 at 22:08, Lord of Narnia said:

 

Modelmaster used to do them. Not sure what’s going on with them. Found some on Fox transfers website. They are for buses but might well work ok.

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/fleet-name-london-transport

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/white-fleet-number-set-stl-g-d-b-rt-srt-plus-pairs-101-200

 

Just checked and at 2.35mm high, they won't fit in the 2mm panel on the carriages without spreading over the beading, so the hand lettering will have to stay. Thanks for trying to help anyway.

[Erixtar1992]

14 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

It was a centre pivoted bogie. I started making a live steam version back in 1974 but had to leave it in 1976, bus restoration and family got in the way! There's odd bits I remember from the official LT works drawing. I converted a Triang M7 into an E class back in the day. It didn't look too bad in those days.

What scale/gauge of live steam?

[roythebus1]

I tried 5" gauge. It could be copied straight from the 1:12 scale  LT drawing with a bit of give for the gauge.