PieGuyRob Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Basically, I have tried typing various inspection and manager's saloons into google, but, I can't find the inspection saloon in the B.R. shadow frieght company Mainline livery of blue with silver stripes. Both Accurascale and Bachmann are offering class 31407 in Mainline livery. Apparently there was an inspection saloon in the same livery. Did the carriage exist? If so what was the number? Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jbqfc Posted February 28 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28 the number was DB999504 but pictures of it in mainline blue seem to be very few there one in Railway magazine April 1996 John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, jbqfc said: the number was DB999504 but pictures of it in mainline blue seem to be very few there one in Railway magazine April 1996 John Thank you. So it is the same carriage that ended up in EWS livery, that Bachmann produce? Edited February 28 by PieGuyRob Spelling mistake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted February 28 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, PieGuyRob said: Thank you. So it is the same carriage that ended up in EWS livery, that Bachmann produce? It does indeed seem to be. The LMS 50ft inspection saloon. I am under the impression that the Mainline saloon never saw action, it was painted for a launch or open day, but never ran out on the mainline in that livery. Of course rule 1 can apply on your layout and you can run it. I quite fancy one myself, but don't have the time to paint it just now. BTW I think that I have a magazine with a picture of it in, so DM if you want and I'll photo it for you. Probably can't post it here due to copyright. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 https://www.departmentals.com/search.php?searchValue=999504&fs=1&search= 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bendall Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 DB999504 only carried Mainline blue for about four months hence the lack of images. A pic appears in issue 253 of MLI Plus, which I think is the same one from Railway Mag at the time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 Thank you for your replies. I will probably make do with the EWS liveried version of the carriage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 28/02/2024 at 16:48, jbqfc said: the number was DB999504 but pictures of it in mainline blue seem to be very few there one in Railway magazine April 1996 John On 28/02/2024 at 17:53, PieGuyRob said: Thank you. So it is the same carriage that ended up in EWS livery, that Bachmann produce? On 28/02/2024 at 20:49, nightstar.train said: It does indeed seem to be. The LMS 50ft inspection saloon. I am under the impression that the Mainline saloon never saw action, it was painted for a launch or open day, but never ran out on the mainline in that livery. Of course rule 1 can apply on your layout and you can run it. I quite fancy one myself, but don't have the time to paint it just now. BTW I think that I have a magazine with a picture of it in, so DM if you want and I'll photo it for you. Probably can't post it here due to copyright. No. The LMS saloons were numbered M450xx by the LMS, then BR added a "D" to the number. Example - the Walsall area saloon was M45026, which became DM45026 in BR numbering. The GWR saloons were numbered W809xx under GWR and had the same "D" added in BR days. Post 1948 BR built some saloons to replace the earliest pre nationalisation vehicles, and because they were ordered and built by BR they gained DB9995xx numbers. I understand West Coast have DB999506 and took it for a trip around London last month top and tailed by diesels. This vehicle is probably very similar to the vehicle involved in showcasing the Mainline Freight livery, but don't forget that the nascent EW&S was very keen to establish it's corporate maroon & gold branding. It is therefore little surprise that DB999504 was repigmented in short order. HTH 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) Mainline wasted alot of their blue paint ! How long did 37109 last in blue before going EWS ? Months I think Edited March 4 by rob D2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 15 hours ago, Covkid said: No. The LMS saloons were numbered M450xx by the LMS, then BR added a "D" to the number. Example - the Walsall area saloon was M45026, which became DM45026 in BR numbering. These days the saloons would be listed in one of the spotters' books, but I wonder if we could establish whether Carlisle had an ex-LMS example back in the late sixties, and its identity....? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 32 minutes ago, 'CHARD said: These days the saloons would be listed in one of the spotters' books, but I wonder if we could establish whether Carlisle had an ex-LMS example back in the late sixties, and its identity....? Did the RCTS do a Coaching Stock book back then ? ( In fact, would they have counted it as Coaching Stock ? ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzler17 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 49 minutes ago, 'CHARD said: These days the saloons would be listed in one of the spotters' books, but I wonder if we could establish whether Carlisle had an ex-LMS example back in the late sixties, and its identity....? This doesn't directly answer your questions but provides a short history of one of the inspection saloons, note the bit about being allocated to Euston Downside and why. https://www.prclt.co.uk/6320-special-saloon.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, 'CHARD said: These days the saloons would be listed in one of the spotters' books, but I wonder if we could establish whether Carlisle had an ex-LMS example back in the late sixties, and its identity....? In the list of initial allocations none were allocated to Carlisle. The nearest would be 45047 at Lancaster (still there in 1961) or 45020 in Glasgow. The latter was still in use in 1987 as the Sc.Region GM's saloon so hadn't strayed far. Hope this helps. Ray. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 5 hours ago, Marshall5 said: In the list of initial allocations none were allocated to Carlisle. The nearest would be 45047 at Lancaster (still there in 1961) or 45020 in Glasgow. The latter was still in use in 1987 as the Sc.Region GM's saloon so hadn't strayed far. Hope this helps. Ray. That's very helpful! Both are viable contenders, thank you! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 22 hours ago, Covkid said: No. The LMS saloons were numbered M450xx by the LMS, then BR added a "D" to the number. Example - the Walsall area saloon was M45026, which became DM45026 in BR numbering. The GWR saloons were numbered W809xx under GWR and had the same "D" added in BR days. Post 1948 BR built some saloons to replace the earliest pre nationalisation vehicles, and because they were ordered and built by BR they gained DB9995xx numbers. I understand West Coast have DB999506 and took it for a trip around London last month top and tailed by diesels. This vehicle is probably very similar to the vehicle involved in showcasing the Mainline Freight livery, but don't forget that the nascent EW&S was very keen to establish it's corporate maroon & gold branding. It is therefore little surprise that DB999504 was repigmented in short order. HTH DB999506/8/9 were BR Mark 1-based with two large square end observation windows and mounted on the 57' underframe. DB999501-4 appear, to me anyway, to be built to the same design as the LMS saloons - indeed one source claims they were the last vehicles built to an LMS design, over a decade after that company ceased to be; whether they were identical or not I can't say - I've never compared them in detail. I can't find any reference to a DB999505; DB999507 was the Elliot Track Recording 4-wheel railbus-type vehicle and DB999510 a conversion from Derby Lightweight trailer car M79649 early in its life (November 1957, although it ran for some time with its original number). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISW Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 7 hours ago, Wickham Green too said: Did the RCTS do a Coaching Stock book back then ? ( In fact, would they have counted it as Coaching Stock ? ) I believe the first issue of said book was 1972 with data correct to the end of 1971. I have the 1974 second edition, from where I started coach-spotting ... Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, Halvarras said: ... I can't find any reference to a DB999505; ... The 1981 'LINESIDE Publication' Departmental Coaching Stock book lists DB999505 as "This vehicle no longer exists, no other information known." ......... maybe doubtful whether it ever DID exist !!?! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted March 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 4 3 hours ago, Halvarras said: DB999506/8/9 were BR Mark 1-based with two large square end observation windows and mounted on the 57' underframe. DB999501-4 appear, to me anyway, to be built to the same design as the LMS saloons - indeed one source claims they were the last vehicles built to an LMS design, over a decade after that company ceased to be; whether they were identical or not I can't say - I've never compared them in detail. I had a little look earlier. They are very similar, but not identical. DB99501-4 have a different arrangement of doors and windows on one side, the other side appears identical. Here's DB999504. From the left it has two large windows, very close together, then a door, two small windows, door etc. And here's an original LMS example, DM45026. Large window, door, large window, two small windows, door etc. So very close, but not identical. The Bachmann example is an original LMS example as in the second picture. You could certainly repaint a Bachmann one into Mainline blue and be happy with it. As I say the other side is identical between original LMS/Bachmann and BR built LMS design. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bendall Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said: The 1981 'LINESIDE Publication' Departmental Coaching Stock book lists DB999505 as "This vehicle no longer exists, no other information known." ......... maybe doubtful whether it ever DID exist !!?! DB999505 was another saloon, same as DB999501-504. It was written off in an accident around 1967. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Simon Bendall said: DB999505 was another saloon, same as DB999501-504. It was written off in an accident around 1967. I did wonder if this may have been the case, but couldn't find anything on it (so maybe I didn't look hard enough then!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) I remember seeing somewhere that DB999501-505 were rebuilt from withdrawn LMS kitchen cars. Edited March 6 by giz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 33 minutes ago, giz said: I remember seeing somewhere that DB999501-505 were rebuilt from withdrawn LMS kitchen cars. The diagram 1/551 saloons 30088 & 30106 (laterTMD395279/80) were the ones converted from D1912 kitchen cars in 1957. Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 11 hours ago, Marshall5 said: The diagram 1/551 saloons 30088 & 30106 (laterTMD395279/80) were the ones converted from D1912 kitchen cars in 1957. Ray. TDM395279 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmrdepartmentalstock/ef4875bfd https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmrdepartmentalstock/ef4875bfe https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmrdepartmentalstock/ef4875bff Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Hi, I have come across a page of the Inspector’s Saloon in it’s current condition. http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5010 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6775 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) This might help: https://flic.kr/p/aqfWep Edited March 10 by D6775 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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