Jollibob Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) Hi guys, I'm just in the process of doing some good old fashioned kit building. Currently, I've just started a Fruit D. I like to model the early BR period and I was wondering what colours these vans would have been painted in? Many images of models I find online show it in crimson, or GWR brown. I could do with a few grey wagons, were these wagons ever painted in such colours? Regards Rob. Edited March 28 by Jollibob Grammar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieswagonsiphon.html#:~:text=BR(W) continued painting some vehicles brown for a few years after nationalisation%3B thereafter%2C any surviving NPCCS vehicles being repainted appeared in unlined crimson or (from 1957) maroon. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Passenger rated stock I'm afraid. The late survivors even got BR Blue. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/fruitd Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 You’d have to back to WW1 to find fruit vans in wagon grey. I think the exact year was 1916…certainly that’s when the fish wagons went brown. Duncan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollibob Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 Hey there. This has been helpful. I like brown but I think on this occasion I will paint it crimson then. Many thanks, Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 29 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29 To answer the other bit in your post, if you want some grey wagons, you should be looking at some unfitted Minks or vans from other constituents. If you like kits, there are plenty of LMS, LNER and the odd Southern one from Ratio/Parkside and Cambrian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwmtwrch Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 28/03/2024 at 06:40, drduncan said: You’d have to back to WW1 to find fruit vans in wagon grey. I think the exact year was 1916…certainly that’s when the fish wagons went brown. Fruit A goods fruit vans to Y8 of 1937-8 and the conversions of W10 to Y10 a year later were painted grey by the GWR. Since both were VB they would have been painted bauxite at first repaint by BR. The same is also true of all GWR Fruit B Banana van diagrams. The only brown vehicles were the long wheelbase Passenger Fruit Vans, Fruit C and Fruit D, later coded Pasfruit C and D. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cwmtwrch said: Fruit A goods fruit vans to Y8 of 1937-8 and the conversions of W10 to Y10 a year later were painted grey by the GWR. Since both were VB they would have been painted bauxite at first repaint by BR. The same is also true of all GWR Fruit B Banana van diagrams. The only brown vehicles were the long wheelbase Passenger Fruit Vans, Fruit C and Fruit D, later coded Pasfruit C and D. Quite right. The non passenger rated wagons built in the interwar period were grey, although survivors of the SWB Y1 and Y2 NPCS fruits would have gone into brown at the same time as the LWB NCPS fruits C and D, but the OP was asking about the passenger rated Fruits, specifically the Fruit D… I should have been more precise with my terminology but I thought in the context of the OP’s question all would be clear. I’m sorry if anyone was confused. Duncan Edited March 30 by drduncan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 The M&GNR Society own Diagram Y14 Fruit D W92097W, built by BR at Swindon, which according to David Larkin, as part of Lot 30383 in 1960. The assumption is that the van was out shopped in the post 1956 BR Crimson Lake (Maroon), albeit during rubbing down of the paintwork, the later post 1965 BR blue was found. The plan is to refurbish the van in "as built" condition, and the question is, should the van ends be black or as some authors state, post 1956 van ends were the same as the body sides, albeit this comment tends to be linked to the time workshops spray painted stock, and I've not read when Swindon adopted spray painting for rolling stock. Comments gratefully received Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Ends started to be painted body colour from 1964 so quite a short period of fully Green or Maroon coaches being painted. But they do seem to have been quite prolific at painting them. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 8 hours ago, PaulG said: The M&GNR Society own Diagram Y14 Fruit D W92097W, built by BR at Swindon, which according to David Larkin, as part of Lot 30383 in 1960. The assumption is that the van was out shopped in the post 1956 BR Crimson Lake (Maroon), albeit during rubbing down of the paintwork, the later post 1965 BR blue was found. The plan is to refurbish the van in "as built" condition, and the question is, should the van ends be black or as some authors state, post 1956 van ends were the same as the body sides, albeit this comment tends to be linked to the time workshops spray painted stock, and I've not read when Swindon adopted spray painting for rolling stock. Comments gratefully received Paul None of my photos, and some are in the 1950s, suggest the ends were any different in colour to the sides. Certainly appear repainted (maroon presumably) after 1957. Before that in Crimson. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/fruitd/ed495eb9 Yellow lining paint for the writing. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 16 hours ago, hmrspaul said: None of my photos, and some are in the 1950s, suggest the ends were any different in colour to the sides. Certainly appear repainted (maroon presumably) after 1957. Before that in Crimson. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/fruitd/ed495eb9 Yellow lining paint for the writing. Paul Thank you Paul for your reply. I have a "reasonable" number of railway books - the wife says I have too many - but I couldn't see a positive "all four sides/ends maroon for new stock post 1956", whereas the earlier BR crimson livery did state ends black and many of these vehicles would still have been around into the 1960's with the earlier livery. I've past the "good news" onto the team at Holt Station, where they have started to paint the van ends black! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Can I suggest that wooden-bodied slab-sided vehicles such as Fruit Ds and Southern U-vans were painted crimson on both sides and ends (but had never been lined) whereas NPCS vehicles that were more akin to passenger-carrying vehicles in their appearance were painted crimson (originally lined), or occasionally crimson and cream, on their sides and black on their ends. That is certainly what my memory suggests and would have been logical in treating the former of vehicles as akin to wagons (which were, of course, treated in the same way all round) albeit in crimson rather than brown/bauxite. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 28 minutes ago, bécasse said: Can I suggest that wooden-bodied slab-sided vehicles such as Fruit Ds and Southern U-vans were painted crimson on both sides and ends (but had never been lined) whereas NPCS vehicles that were more akin to passenger-carrying vehicles in their appearance were painted crimson (originally lined), or occasionally crimson and cream, on their sides and black on their ends. That is certainly what my memory suggests and would have been logical in treating the former of vehicles as akin to wagons (which were, of course, treated in the same way all round) albeit in crimson rather than brown/bauxite. The Southern vans definitely had black ends until they changed the specifications. The only thing I can think of is that the WR carried on using the method they used for Brown vehicles and painted the ends the same as the sides. Could they have been maintained/overhauled/painted by the wagon department rather than carriage? Unless someone finds a colour photo showing the ends or has evidence then it is a mystery. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Not Jeremy Posted April 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4 I have a picture of a more or less ex works fruit D W92057W at Kingswear which is most definitely maroon with black painted ends, I (as Wild Swan) hope to publish it a new book in the near future with other colour pictures of stock in service. On the other hand, on the rear cover of "Dorset Steam" from Capital Transport, is a fab picture of a fruit D in all over maroon. Didn't the change to body colour ends come in with the spraying rather than brush painting of stock? Great looking vehicles in any livery! Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 BR failed to get all the numerous workshops to follow their painting instructions. The old ways were difficult to change, so we get wood framed open wagons being repainted. So one works painting ends black and others with ends the same as the sides seems likely. 1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said: The Southern vans definitely had black ends until they changed the specifications. Jason Non of these mid 1950s photos of BYs appear to have an end darker than the sides https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srby/e2bf29388 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srby/e2cedc18b https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srby/e399adca5 Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted Monday at 11:29 Share Posted Monday at 11:29 I spent a considerable amount of time looking for colour photos of NPCS taken in the 1957-64 period when painting a B.R. built FruitD, an ex LNER Dia.9 Horsebox, ex GWR Siphon G and two ex S.R CCT/PMV's. The conclusion I came to was that they all had black ends in that period. When spray painting was introduced in 1964/5 the ends became the same colour as the sides so only a very few vehicles would have maroon or green ends before the change to Rail Blue. Paul's website is an invaluable reference but unfortunately, unless it is of an ex works vehicle, a B&W image can't really be relied on. Most photos show that these wooden bodied vehicles were seldom cleaned and little or no colour would be discernible under the overall filth. Ray. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted Monday at 19:38 RMweb Premium Share Posted Monday at 19:38 8 hours ago, Marshall5 said: little or no colour would be discernible under the overall filth. As a case in point, the buffers and underframe look exactly the same as the sides and the ends and they can't all be the same colour! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted Tuesday at 11:23 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:23 Following comments above, I asked the M&GN Society team repainting the Diagram Y14 Fruit D W92097W, (built by BR at Swindon, which according to David Larkin, as part of Lot 30383 in 1960), when stripping back the paint for signs of previous livery, and have found black paint on the van ends, underneath the later BR blue. Thank you for all your comments. Paul 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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