Aftermarket Decoders

[Carver Bridge TMD]

I buy my locos DCC ready, because I'm not particularly fussed about sound. When it comes to fitting decoders for silent running, how much does it matter which ones I choose? In terms of 21pin, is there a minimum standard for silent operation or is the cheapest good enough. If there is one that's markedly better, feel free to point it out for me! 

[Matt]

I think you may have ventured into a hotly debated area! I think best way to answer is with a “it depends” response.
 

Many will say that some of the premium brands provide superior control /smoothness. I am sure this is true but will depend on the base model and what being used for.

 

 In my case I enjoy running scale length trains of 20-30 wagons at prototypical line speeds - no shunting around involved. All my stock is less than 20 yrs old consisting diesels with central motor as per Bachmann, Hornby etc.  I don’t generally bother with capacitors as my layout is in a centrally heated room so track doesn’t get too dirty. I rarely tune my decoders beyond address and momentum.

 

I have decoders from Lais, Bachmann, DCC concepts, Gaugemaster, ESU, Zimo and others and for how I use them I see very little difference*. All provide decent reliable performance for what I need.

 

Where it is starting to get more complicated is with latest gen Bachmann /Accurascale / Cavalex diesels where more sophisticated lighting requires more advanced or specially programmed decoders. I’ve been adopting a “life’s too short “ approach here and sticking with the manufacturers recommended / supplied decoder for each of these.

 

Others will have different perspectives based on how they use their models but that’s mine.

 

Hope it helps, Matt 

 

*the only exception I’ve had is on some of my Heljan 26s which seem to draw slightly more amps than normal - in some cases I’ve had to use a “better”decoder to cope 

[Dagworth]

Simple answer. fit the best that you can afford.

 

Andi

[Suzie]

The cheapest is most unlikely to be good enough. Plan to spend £24 for a direct plug-in decoder, or £25 for one with wires and get a Zimo MX600 (wires/wired plug), MX637(PluX22) MX638(21MTC) or MX618 (Next-18).

[GrumpyPenguin]

I've been running DCC for a couple of decades, I've tried many brands/re-brands & always go back to Lenz as my "go-too", currently the Silver. I would probably use more Zimo if they were more readily available to me.

 

Asking for advice/opinions is a bit like opening one of these ;

 

 

[Kris]

I have certainly seen worse control from some cheaper decoders to the point where I considered some to be unusable the Hattons ones were a case in point for this. The cheap Hornby decoders seem to be fine in Hornby locos but not as good in other brands. 

[Carver Bridge TMD]

So this is what I've been using. Got four for £50 at the last Warley although they're normally priced higher than that. Are these a disaster zone? Does anyone have any experience with these?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I see DCC as a utility, so want to pay the least cash for the desired performance. For me that's Lenz and Zimo, because I want truly smooth transitions in and out of movement, and accurate speed matching to meet my operational requirements, and it's mostly steam models they are fitted in.

 

Truly, as some of the earlier replies suggest, you need to 'suck it and see' to determine which decoders deliver  your requirements when used in combination with the traction you own. Do tell what you find with your latest purchase, from a brand which I have never heard of.

 

[melmerby]

7 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

a brand which I have never heard of

They look like re-packaged "ANE Model" decoders, hence the logo in top left.

Beena round a while, reviews tend to vary somewhat.

AFAIK They are a Chinese company

[spamcan61]

I think it's fair to say some types of decoder work better 'out of the box' than others with certain types of motor, and some decoder have more configuration options than others. So very much "suck it and see".

[Torper]

I've got an old Bachmann class 24 that throughout the years I've had it has been subjected to some abuse including some experimentation with electrics that I knew nothing about, as a reult of which it effectively destroyed a sound decoder.  But it's a good runner and I wanted to get it working again, but I didn't want to risk blowing another expensive decoder.  So to simplfy matters the pcb now only has connections only to motor and track - as far as I'm aware there is no longer any lighting wiring or connections.  

 

To see if it would work again under DCC I bought a Lais 6-function 21-pin decoder for £13.50 and I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised by its performance.  Slow speed control is excellent, and motor control generally seems very good and quiet - on that basis I can't really distinguish it from my Zimos.  The fact it's Chinese doesn't mean its bad - after all, most people here will be operating their expensive decoders in Chinese built locos - and nor, it seems, does the fact that it's cheap.  OK, it may lack the functions and sophistications that some people may want, but for me it does just what I want it to.  I feel that the fact that it is sold by DigiTrains among others suggests that it's not rubbish.

[Oldddudders]

Speaking as you have found about a decoder is actually far more useful in this sort of thread than blanket recommendations only ever to buy Brand X. 

[Luke Piewalker]

A couple of years ago I would have said Zimo like a shot, however we have to acknowledge there was a golden period where Zimo were offering Lenz/ESU levels of performance at midrange prices. Unfortunately chip shortages and such have meant that those days have now passed and Zimo prices are more in line with the higher end of proceedings.

 

I always keep an eye out for Bachmann decoders being discounted, as some of them are made by Zimo and ESU but research is required to figure out which ones.

 

There's always potential to relegate cheaper ones to operating the lights at the non motor end of DMUs/EMUs if you don't get on with them.

[melmerby]

8 minutes ago, Luke Piewalker said:

Zimo prices are more in line with the higher end of proceedings.

Do you consider £25 high end?

Still available from several retailers at that price.

[Suzie]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Speaking as you have found about a decoder is actually far more useful in this sort of thread than blanket recommendations only ever to buy Brand X. 

 

You need to look at the original post - it asks a general question.

 

On 13/04/2024 at 22:08, Carver Bridge TMD said:

...When it comes to fitting decoders for silent running, how much does it matter which ones I choose? In terms of 21pin, is there a minimum standard for silent operation or is the cheapest good enough. If there is one that's markedly better, feel free to point it out for me! 

 

To which you can only give a general answer.

 

I gave up with sub £25 decoders for general use some time ago because they all had shortcomings that made the cost saving not worthwhile most of the time (along with a lot of the more expensive decoders). If £25 is too expensive, then people will need to say what compromises they are prepared to make (poor motor control, unreliable packet decoding, noisy motor drive, complicated motor setup, insufficient function outputs, wrong size, inadequate power output, etc.) I am sure that there are some cheap decoders that work well in some locos, but there is no general cheap decoder that is universally good.

 

I have tried a lot of decoders, and there is only one brand that makes decoders that can just be dropped in to any loco which will work without any configuration, and they do that for around £25.

[Izzy]

As others have said there is one make, Zimo, that generally stand head and shoulders above all others when it comes to motor control with any loco of whatever scale/gauge etc. Many of us have discovered this purely through trying a range of different makes. Of course the actual sizes of the various decoders varies as do what features each may have to suit particular circumstances and needs of an individual loco, but if they can’t/won’t run decently then all the bells and whistles in the world won’t make up for it. Sometime you can get lucky with other makes and each persons desires re running quality will be different, but for me it’s just Zimo now. Anything else is just hassle and/or disappointment. I accept they aren’t the cheapest but this is the judgement call you have to make. 
 

Bob

[Luke Piewalker]

15 hours ago, melmerby said:

Do you consider £25 high end?

Still available from several retailers at that price.

The new MN series decoders will be £34, I don't use 21 pin decoders so don't know the market, but I know the 6 pin and Next18s are at the higher prices. If you can find Zimo 21 pin decoders at £25 I would buy them...

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, Luke Piewalker said:

The new MN series decoders will be £34, I don't use 21 pin decoders so don't know the market, but I know the 6 pin and Next18s are at the higher prices. If you can find Zimo 21 pin decoders at £25 I would buy them...

You didn't specify MN series only & 21pin.

Why buy decoders if you don't use them?  Sounds like a contradiction🙂

 

The MN series are completely redesigned with new MCU architecture, so I wouldn't expect bargain prices.

I still think £34 for a Zimo MN340C 21 pin is reasonable.

 

[Luke Piewalker]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

You didn't specify MN series only & 21pin.

Why buy decoders if you don't use them?  Sounds like a contradiction🙂

 

The MN series are completely redesigned with new MCU architecture, so I wouldn't expect bargain prices.

I still think £34 for a Zimo MN340C 21 pin is reasonable.

 

I was just going with what the OP was using, and I'm not seeing many of the MX series about except at £30+.

I agree £34 is reasonable, I think my original point was that at the lower price it didn't even require thought as they were that much better than everything around them.

[Torper]

17 hours ago, Suzie said:

 

You need to look at the original post - it asks a general question.

 

Well no, the OP actually asked both a general question and a specific question, the latter being "If there is one that's markedly better, feel free to point it out for me!" which is what I endeavoured to do.  A lot of decoders have far too many functions etc for my requirements, and in these circumstances a cheaper one works perfectly well.

 

Otherwise, I do sometimes wonder if the unique excellence of Zimo is something of a myth, and I expect that users of Lenz, ESU, Digitrax and various others may think so too.  Having said that, most of my locos have Zimo decoders, but they haven't all been perfect and I've still got one loco whose speed will not get any faster once it gets to speed step 75 or so.  That's got a Zimo MX600 - I think I might swap it for a Lais to see it it's any different. (I should maybe insert an emoticon at this point).

 

What the OP asked was if the cheapest is good enough.  I may be wrong, but I gained the impression that he doesn't want anything complicated and, like me, wants a decoder that doesn't break the bank and will basically just run his trains without any adjustment once it's fitted, and I don't think you need to spend £34 on a Zimo for that. I'm rather reminded of the fact that during and after covid the price of Lurpak butter shot up and although the Lidl equivalent (Danpac) was and is virtually indistinguishable and was half the price people continued to go into Lidl and buy Lurpak in the belief that it was the best whileas I'm pretty sure that most wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.  Thus with my Lais 21-pin - it works and it works well, controlling my class 24 smoothly and quietly from a nearly imperceptible crawl upwards.  It didn't need to be fettled, it just worked, but there again I don't want it do anything complicated and in this case the cheapest was certainly good enough.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

58 minutes ago, Torper said:

... I do sometimes wonder if the unique excellence of Zimo is something of a myth, and I expect that users of Lenz, ESU, Digitrax and various others may think so too.

It wasn't, as compared to Lenz, when confronted with a mechanism that was 'challenging' - the plenitude of adjustments enabled the performance optimisation that I was looking for. The Lenz decoders I had exclusively used up until that point had been tested against all other brands  available when I started in DCC, and had comfortably trounced the lot, and this has continued with everything encountered 'by accident' such as unannounced decoders in s/h purchases, and some decoder choices of friends.

 

(And then there was the CTE range, which were rather wonderful in performance, very small and expensive, until they suddenly went unavailable...

 

Now, since everything currently works to my satisfaction using Lenz (for the economy) if performance is good enough and if not the slightly more expensive Zimo, I have not gone testing the subsequent entrants offering DCC decoders. But time has passed, and there must have been progress, so if there's something cheaper that matches or outperforms Zimo and Lenz, I will be interested.

[Carver Bridge TMD]

On 14/04/2024 at 09:04, Carver Bridge TMD said:

So this is what I've been using. Got four for £50 at the last Warley although they're normally priced higher than that. Are these a disaster zone? Does anyone have any experience with these?

Just put this in Sir Gwynedd class 47. On step one it stutters but doesn't really move, on step two it jumps to a scale 40mph and tries to throw itself on the floor. I'll put this one in the 'do not recommend' pile for you...

[08221]

12 minutes ago, Carver Bridge TMD said:

Just put this in Sir Gwynedd class 47. On step one it stutters but doesn't really move, on step two it jumps to a scale 40mph and tries to throw itself on the floor. I'll put this one in the 'do not recommend' pile for you...

May be set to 28 speed steps instead of 128. I've had that with a few new decoders of different brands.

 

Take care.

[roundhouse]

I tend to use Soundtraxx decoders in North American locos that have sound but Digitrax in non sound locos especially my N scale American locos as I make use of the transponding functionality with the Surroundtrax sound box.

In my British outline N scale I have used numerous manufacturers decoders without issue .

However I tend to use Zimo sound and non sound decoders these days. Loksond are also fine but IMHO Zimo have the edge without having to play around with the CV settings for motor control.

 

[Carver Bridge TMD]

45 minutes ago, 08221 said:

May be set to 28 speed steps instead of 128. I've had that with a few new decoders of different brands.

 

Take care.

I'll double check that, but even at 1/14th of maximum speed it was still way too fast, unless it's capable of scale mach1