Do you prefer to pay for Model Railway Exhibition admission using a card or cash?

[Trevellan]

Personally, I like to have the choice of both cash and card. My decision as to which method to use is governed by other factors at that time, but as a consumer I want to the right to choose.

[Steamport Southport]

Cash all day long.

 

I'm afraid I don't like venues where everything is card only. Especially music ones as it's difficult to keep an eye on your spending. You get a few rounds in and a bit of merch and then you find out you've spent over £100! Something you wouldn't do if all you had to spend is what you have in your pocket.

 

And how often does the system crash? Pretty often in my experience. I remember being at a music festival and you couldn't even get a drink or anything to eat for hours as everything was down. No popping out to the local cash machine as there wasn't one for miles.

 

 

 

Jason

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

So tolls that expect you to pay online shortly afterwards - not acceptable, because you are there in person, ditto pay by app only car parks (both of which would frequently leave me with no means of payment whatsoever), but online purchases wouldn't be affected by it.

Neither of those is equivalent to paying by card in-person though, I’d suggest it’s the need to pay using an app (inevitably a different app from the one used at another car park you might visit the next day) that’s really annoying, more so than the inability to use cash.

 

TfL buses are cashless, for instance, and together with having a flat fare (so you don’t have to ask for a ticket to a specific place) it does seem to speed things up. This was annoying before the advent of contactless debit cards, as I think it would have required everyone to have an Oyster, even for infrequent use. Although on that specific example, the most annoying bus payment system I’ve seen elsewhere in the UK is cash-only, but only accepting exact change. That was a few years ago though.

 

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And this is how the "red tape" and regulations that people moan about are created...

Also, as I already suggested, logically it opens up the possibility of people then demanding the ‘statutory right’ to pay by card (and perhaps by extension also cheque, or BACS, or whatever) which is going to create other issues.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Trevellan said:

Personally, I like to have the choice of both cash and card.

Which is what the topic was originally about. I don’t think there was any suggestion from @Dungrange that their club show might go card-only, just that card would be available as an option.

[009 micro modeller]

16 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

From my limited experience, card fees for international transactions are less than transaction fees for getting cash and quite a bit less than extracting cash from a hole in the wall using your card.

The comparison I was making was with acquiring the cash from a bureau de change before going abroad, which generally involves having British cash to exchange and paying some kind of conversion fee. I’m not sure how it compares to withdrawing the cash once abroad.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And this is how the "red tape" and regulations that people moan about are created...

Just because there can be problems with the amount and nature of red tape and regulations doesn't mean that it's always better to do nothing.

 

Like everything there has to be a balance, and it's often the case of which is the lesser evil. The alternative is generally going all out to one extreme or the other, and that rarely works well.

 

[big jim]

On 10/05/2024 at 16:53, newbryford said:

 

Sumup readers certainly have a limit.

Once you get to that number that's it until they are unlocked by filling in paperwork/jumping through hoops by providing more details about the account.

You can pre-empt it by sorting out the details beforehand.

 

ISTR it's to limit money-laundering.

 

 

 

didn’t that happen at DEMU last year (or the year before) the person in front of me paid by card then I was the first person that the ‘computer said no’ to, for whatever reason I’d not taken cash that day so I had to go into town for some

 

I prefer to pay card at the doors personally but I’ve normally now got some cash on me after the DEMU issue, just in case they are having issues or the venue doesn’t take cards, especially ones out of town where the nearest cash machine could be miles away

 

 

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

10 minutes ago, big jim said:

didn’t that happen at DEMU last year (or the year before) the person in front of me paid by card then I was the first person that the ‘computer said no’ to, for whatever reason I’d not taken cash that day so I had to go into town for some

 

I prefer to pay card at the doors personally but I’ve normally now got some cash on me after the DEMU issue, just in case they are having issues or the venue doesn’t take cards, especially ones out of town where the nearest cash machine could be miles away

 

I think being very remote from the nearest cash machine is quite a good reason for a show to take cards. For instance, for the small local show I mentioned earlier we weren’t able to take cards but fortunately were able to signpost people to the nearest cash machine, just round the corner and often before they had reached the ticket desk.

[Andy Hayter]

3 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

The comparison I was making was with acquiring the cash from a bureau de change before going abroad, which generally involves having British cash to exchange and paying some kind of conversion fee. I’m not sure how it compares to withdrawing the cash once abroad.

 

"transaction fees for getting cash" was supposed to cover bureau de change and issue of foreign currency by your bank.

[wombatofludham]

Personally I'm a huge fan of cashless to the point even my window cleaner and gardener has bank transfer, usually whilst they are doing the work.  Paying for the local car park on the rare occasions I use it by phone is a Godsend, and when I treat the State Barge to some Shell V Power (being a Saab it does respond better to E5) when I'm near a Shell petrol station I do that by phone, which also nicely helps my diet as I don't give in to the chocolate aisle.  When I go to a show I transfer funds from my savings account into my day to day current account and I know exactly how much I can spend and that it won't impact my household account which is a separate card I never use outside (I set up two current accounts after a fraud attempt and only use one card for outdoor transactions).  Being cashless just needs a bit of organisation, but where I live my nearest banks are closing and the nearest branch of my bank is over 50 miles away, so being organised and cashless is something I'm used to.

[Dungrange]

4 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Which is what the topic was originally about. I don’t think there was any suggestion from @Dungrange that their club show might go card-only, just that card would be available as an option.

 

Correct - we'll be accepting both cash and cards for our first exhibition in many years.  I was just curious as to what the uptake for card payments is likely to be and this poll has been showing a fairly consistent 3/4 card 1/4 cash split over the last week.  It will be interesting to compare our outturn split between card and cash against this poll.

 

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I think being very remote from the nearest cash machine is quite a good reason for a show to take cards.

 

Our nearest cashpoint isn't miles away, but the closest one I know about is about 0.6 miles away from our venue (a 12-13 minute walk).  If someone has to walk that far to get a cash point, I think there is a reasonable likelihood that they won't come back.

 

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

Like everything there has to be a balance, and it's often the case of which is the lesser evil.

 

I'd say that doing nothing is definitely the lesser evil.  Most places will offer a choice of payment mechanisms without any legislation forcing them to do so.  Placing a statutory obligation on all events to take multiple payment mechanisms will just lead to fewer events and the creation of a few pointless jobs for people to check that all organisations are meeting these statutory requirements.

[Dungrange]

Since it was stated earlier, that I'd missed a couple of options, I've started a new poll with four choices.

 

 

 

[AndrueC]

4 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

The comparison I was making was with acquiring the cash from a bureau de change before going abroad, which generally involves having British cash to exchange and paying some kind of conversion fee. I’m not sure how it compares to withdrawing the cash once abroad.

Yup. Exchange fee to get the currency. Exchange fee to change it back to Sterling. And being left with a handful of coins that you can't exchange back.

 

Cards make far more sense. The fees are usually lower at least in part because you only pay for the currency you actually need. And of course no coins left over. There are also zero charge cards available.

Edited May 15 by AndrueC

[Pete the Elaner]

Our club had a relatively small show last year & had a card reader available for entry fee for the first time. We took about 15% by card payments.

[TheQ]

We had our card machine available for the first time at our show yesterday.

Just under 200 paying visitors ( children free)

7 payments to enter,

3 payments at the cafe,

2 payments at the second hand stall.

 

Not many, but I think we've got the card at about the right time.

Our next show is during the school holidays, we had to turn holidaymakers away at that show last year as they had no cash.

 

More people will use it as it gets known we have the machine.

More people are going cashless, especially city dwellers coming on holiday..

 

[Dungrange]

18 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Our club had a relatively small show last year & had a card reader available for entry fee for the first time. We took about 15% by card payments.

 

17 hours ago, TheQ said:

We had our card machine available for the first time at our show yesterday.

Just under 200 paying visitors ( children free)

7 payments to enter,

 

Interesting that these results are so different from the poll question, where three quarters have stated a preference for paying by card.  I suspect that historically most smaller shows were cash only and therefore many attendees still probably have a residual expectation that they'll have to pay in cash and therefore come with cash to pay.  Presumably over time, the proportion paying by card will increase over time as attendees realise that they can pay by card.  I've noticed a couple of shows where the show flyers specifically indicate that they accept cards.  I'm not sure if that helps to encourage people to come.  The downside is obviously the risk that you claim to take cards and then have technical issues with the card readers.

[kevinlms]

On 11/05/2024 at 06:54, Willie Whizz said:

My knowledge is dated, but I used to understand that many small traders and exhibitions etc. used to prefer cash as the fees for card usage ate disproportionately into their profits in transactions below (say) £15-20. Is that no longer the case?

 

Round my way it seems to be takeaway food shops that insist in “cash only” these days; I  regret to say my suspicion is this has something to do with dodging tax in some form but I don’t know. 

Often banks in Australia at least, charge a percentage of each transaction. So it makes no difference whether a small or large amount, or how many transactions.

Cards save the treasurer getting long arms taking the cash to the bank!

[kevinlms]

On 16/05/2024 at 02:27, Dungrange said:

 

Our nearest cashpoint isn't miles away, but the closest one I know about is about 0.6 miles away from our venue (a 12-13 minute walk).  If someone has to walk that far to get a cash point, I think there is a reasonable likelihood that they won't come back.

 

Absolutely correct. Sending them off to an ATM is the same as saying 'Goodbye, maybe you'll remember next time'!

[kevinlms]

19 hours ago, TheQ said:

We had our card machine available for the first time at our show yesterday.

Just under 200 paying visitors ( children free)

7 payments to enter,

3 payments at the cafe,

2 payments at the second hand stall.

 

Not many, but I think we've got the card at about the right time.

Our next show is during the school holidays, we had to turn holidaymakers away at that show last year as they had no cash.

 

More people will use it as it gets known we have the machine.

More people are going cashless, especially city dwellers coming on holiday..

 

At my miniature railway club the other day, our ratio of card to cash was at least 75/25 %

 

That percentage has been around the same for the past 6 months, from memory.

[kevinlms]

Something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere above, is the mobile signal for any sort of card reader.

 

In Australia 3G is being turned off by the carrier used by our terminal at the end of June. However, earlier in the year, one machine was very flakey and kept locking up and needed restarting about 20 times and was a real pain.

I put this down to the carrier is not repairing the nearest 3G tower and so relying on a further one.

 

What we did was, connect our reader to our broadband network and it works much faster than any 3G service we had.

 

The moral of the story, is to make sure that the location of an exhibition has good coverage, otherwise things will end in tears, especially if people are expecting to use card and find out on arrival that they can't!

[TheQ]

I made sure our new reader works on both wifi and phone . As it is the hall at the weekend had just had wifi installed and it worked well.

 

When choosing a machine you have to do your research to match your use.. our own banks system only made sense if your turn over was something like £50,000. 

In the end we went with sumup, their charge is 1.69%, no other costs if you buy the machine. Ours was just over £100 to buy.

Edited May 28 by TheQ

[bourneagain]

It would be interesting to see the % numbers who either paid cash or card for their admission to this year’s Railex. I believe that an exhibition of this size, with no advanced ticket sales to distort the figures may give a more accurate picture overall.  Also is the split in terms of % numbers, the same as seen in a much smaller local show?

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, bourneagain said:

It would be interesting to see the % numbers who either paid cash or card for their admission to this year’s Railex. I believe that an exhibition of this size, with no advanced ticket sales to distort the figures may give a more accurate picture overall.  Also is the split in terms of % numbers, the same as seen in a much smaller local show?

Exactly, I feel like the people more likely to book in advance are generally also the ones more likely to use card on the door if advance ticketing is not available. I’d also expect a higher number paying by card for shows with a higher admission fee (because you might carry cash, but maybe not that much) which generally are not the very small local ones.

[kevinlms]

On 29/05/2024 at 02:34, TheQ said:

I made sure our new reader works on both wifi and phone . As it is the hall at the weekend had just had wifi installed and it worked well.

 

When choosing a machine you have to do your research to match your use.. our own banks system only made sense if your turn over was something like £50,000. 

In the end we went with sumup, their charge is 1.69%, no other costs if you buy the machine. Ours was just over £100 to buy.

Yes my club took over $4000 on card recently, I'm not sure of the exact percentage fee, but it's less than 2%.

So it meant for less than $80, no one had to count it, transport it home, take it to the bank the next day, and without the risk. The 98% + whatever, money was paid straight into our account within 24 hours.

A bargain.

[kevinlms]

13 hours ago, bourneagain said:

It would be interesting to see the % numbers who either paid cash or card for their admission to this year’s Railex. I believe that an exhibition of this size, with no advanced ticket sales to distort the figures may give a more accurate picture overall.  Also is the split in terms of % numbers, the same as seen in a much smaller local show?

The bigger the show, the greater the security risk of cash.

I speak as someone who used to be a club treasurer, in the days of 100% cash transactions. I was never happy, even though I live in a low risk part of the world, IMO.