Cattle docks - were any curved?

[john new]

I want to add a cattle dock but have limited room along the siding"s straight bit to model it with any depth. Were any cattle docks curved (dock on the outer side)?

 

I know very little specific info' about cattle docks although thanks to this post by @Richard T I have info' on how one could have been frenced in the locality I am modelling.

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

I think you can apply rule 1 to this.

 

As the cattle wagon will have it's own drop down element for the cows to enter/exit then if the platform is not exactly straight it will not matter as long as the ramp meets the platform.  Fencing around the platform edge can also be formed to the curve as well.

 

So no reason why not if that's what the builder of the location had to contend with.

[Mikkel]

Here is the Welshpool cattle dock:

 

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/theoriginalwhiskygalore/

 

 

And Bordesley on this page: 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbg670b.htm

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Most small station cattle docks only had one or two gates for embarkation, and the docks were often situated in quite odd places, even spanning point-work, and sometimes on the outside of quite tight curves, although the “dock front” was straight, so you’ve got a lot of freedom of positioning. It only took a few minutes to load or unload a single cattle wagon, which could be manually moved into position and then out of the way. Places with cattle markets (like Welshpool) had facilities on a different scale.

[Innerhome]

Yeovil Pen Mill was curved - although in this case dock on the inner side - google below for a photograph. 

 

https://www.yeovilhistory.info/penmillstation.htm

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

the docks were often situated in quite odd places, even spanning point-work

 

An example which survives today being the cattle dock at Highley on the SVR:

 

https://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/images/SVR_2013_07_Highley station_cattle.jpg

 

I think such an arrangement might not suit some modellers, who perhaps would prefer somewhere out of the way where they can 'park' their cattle wagon (however non-prototypical that might be) rather than having to run complicated shunt manoeuvres to simulate loading and unloading cattle from a dock which is 'in the way' of other movements within the station.  Not everyone is a fan of "operational interest" to that degree.  Of course it doesn't help that it is probably next to impossible to model the actual process of loading and unloading of cattle (though it wouldn't surprise me if some has had a go at doing so).

 

Hence, I suspect, the somewhat cliched shortish siding serving a both cattle dock and an end loading dock, providing a convenient place to park a couple of single-purpose wagons out of the way of the to and fro of more general purpose freight stock.   Of course, just because it's a bit of a cliche that doesn't mean that it never existed in the prototype (buses have been known to pass over railways on bridges, after all!)  but at may be that such arrangements occur more frequently in models - and perhaps more especially track plans - of fictional locations than was actually the case in real life.

Edited May 11 by ejstubbs

[Miss Prism]

The regulations concerning the transport of animals were strict, and the time a cattle wagon spent at a dock was usually short. Obviously, if there was a dedicated siding and dock, the situation could be different, with wagons parked there for a while, but generally, I get the impression parking of cattle wagons was comparatively rare. Hence the 'quick loadup mode' at Highley.

 

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

probably next to impossible to model the actual process of loading and unloading of cattle (though it wouldn't surprise me if some has had a go at doing so).

Old hat, or maybe old Stetson. 

 

[CKPR]

3 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

... siding serving a both cattle dock and an end loading dock

I think that this might have been a standard arrangement on the GWR, as they often seem to have been installed at the end of a multi-purpose bay siding at branchline termini.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

21 hours ago, john new said:

Were any cattle docks curved (dock on the outer side)?

Definitely, and could be curved on both land and rail sides arranged along a loop with - as already mentioned - point work included, probably due to space restrictions at the pre-existing stations where they were placed. This on main lines, because I surmise provision had to be made for stops for watering and vetinary inspections as required in law, for through traffic inconveniently at those locations with little or no regular use for loading or off-loading livestock on any great scale. All long time ago swept away as live cattle movement declined rapidly due to refrigeration and road transport post WWI.

 

(The above surmise arose from puzzlement of myself and others by some C19th track diagrams back in my youth, but when some photos from the period were obtained cattle wagons were seen standing on the 'what's all that stuff?' loops and sidings, and understanding dawned.

 

Is there a historically reliable survey of the railway movement of livestock? Due having spent all my life in nearly wholly arable districts my ignorance on such matters may be considered boundless; the few cattle wagons I saw on BR were cleaned out and labelled for vegetable transport  from East Anglia to the Great Wen.)

 

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Old hat, or maybe old Stetson. 

So disappointing! Given the branding on the cattle car I was expecting steers go in, canned meat comes out. 😎

 

[jwealleans]

The quite extensive ones at Grantham were curved.

[Nearholmer]

1 minute ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Is there a historically reliable survey of the railway movement of livestock

 
If you get hold of an old General Appendix, you will find oodles of rules about the process.

[Neil]

Holgate Junction, York had cattle docks curved on both inside and outside. 

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Definitely, and could be curved on both land and rail sides arranged along a loop with - as already mentioned - point work included, probably due to space restrictions at the pre-existing stations where they were placed. This on main lines, because I surmise provision had to be made for stops for watering and vetinary inspections as required in law, for through traffic inconveniently at those locations with little or no regular use for loading or off-loading livestock on any great scale. All long time ago swept away as live cattle movement declined rapidly due to refrigeration and road transport post WWI.

 

(The above surmise arose from puzzlement of myself and others by some C19th track diagrams back in my youth, but when some photos from the period were obtained cattle wagons were seen standing on the 'what's all that stuff?' loops and sidings, and understanding dawned.

 

Is there a historically reliable survey of the railway movement of livestock? Due having spent all my life in nearly wholly arable districts my ignorance on such matters may be considered boundless; the few cattle wagons I saw on BR were cleaned out and labelled for vegetable transport  from East Anglia to the Great Wen.)

 

So disappointing! Given the branding on the cattle car I was expecting steers go in, canned meat comes out. 😎

 

 

1970s surely?

 

BR was still building cattle wagons well into the 1950s.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcattle

 

 

Jason

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

1970s surely?  BR was still building cattle wagons well into the 1950s.

My railway thinking is primarily conditioned by exposure to the ECML, not that noted for cattle traffic.

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, CKPR said:

I think that this might have been a standard arrangement on the GWR, as they often seem to have been installed at the end of a multi-purpose bay siding at branchline termini.

It varied.  At Twyford the cattle dock was served by the run round loop of the branch bay.