How long does it take to ruin a new soldering iron tip?

[chriswright03]

As I have stated in another thread I have recently purchased an MMP brass Catfish kit to build. Realising that my Antex xs25 soldering iron was in dire need of a new tip I invested in a set of three from Maplins for £9.99. Ignoring a temperatiure controlled soldering station for the same price while I was there.

 

So today I fitted a new tip and having read on here and elsewhere about tinning the tip I did just that using electrical leaded solder as instructed. Used it the first time on the kit and it worked brilliantly with the solder flowing into the joint and making a tidy job of it. I have used a damp sponge to wipe the tip and left it whilst I was ready to use again.

 

Come the second or third attempt I decide to check the tip and find that it is black already. Tried to tin it again and the solder just blobs and falls off. Now I should say at this stage that I am using 145 degree solder and a water based flux obtained from Building O gauge online (Simon Varnham).

 

So what am I doing wrong? It is still soldering but I guess it will not for much longer if I cannot tin it again.

 

I must have read every thread on here and stuff elsewhere regards soldering and tinning the tips and I can't see what I am doing wrong. Help please!!!

 

 

Chris

[R A Watson]

Your'e not really doing anything wrong, the black deposit is just "slag" which has built up during the soldering, you will probably find the tip is a steel plated one not solid copper or brass.

 

Wait till the iron is cold and wipe it over with fine abrasive paper or similar (I use 400 grit wet and dry paper which I can get from the paintshop in work) until the deposit is removed and the problem will be solved.

 

Be aware that these queries lead to quite complicated answers coming from some correspondents but if you just carry out the simple remedies your problems become just a simple inconvenience.

 

Wally

[bertiedog]

Basically it was left too long without the lead tin solder giving the protective tinning coat. After the work, switch off, do not let the iron idle with the 145 solder on it. The flux is also a factor, any acid type must be wiped off after use with a damp sponge or cloth, and a spot of normal solder added to re-do the tinning, even before switching off. The re-tinning must become a regular habit, as much as possible when using low melt of any kind.

 

Use brass swarth pad or a pan scourer to wipe clean the tips and then re-tin, they should then work normally.

modern sleeved Antex tips are plated and should not be filed to clean.

 

This is one reason I prefer inserted tips, which can take solid bronze tips, they work far better. Antex do make this type as well as the electrical type, with the sleeve tip.

 

Stephen.

[halfwit]

A little bit of Cif and a green pan scourer works for me when the tip needs a good clean.

[chriswright03]

Stephen thanks for that. It is not the flux as it is water based. I have wiped it between uses as well. I think the bit about putting more solder on the tip each time is what I will have to do. So I should turn it off each time in between solders. That is going to be a pain. I don't know what the constant heating up and cooling down will do to the heating element.

 

I shall try and clean the tip and use it again and if not I will go onto number two out of the three.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I have the the soldering station you walked past. I use a brass scourer mounted in a heavy dish and switch the iron set off between operations. I have also found that turning the heat down from max prevents the blackening. The set also came with spare tips. I also saw a number of demos by professional (?) modellers at Warley using the same set.

 

At the price, it's a steal.

 

I have also invested in Ersin Multicore solder which seems more reliable in performance than the cheap motor store lead free it replaced.

 

It also replaced a digital one from the same source which went much the same way after a lot of use and didn't have replaceable tips. A new complete iron to plug in was £15, half the price of the original set and uncertain delivery. This last purchase from Maplins taught me never to order anything from them that is not showing 'in stock'. They took the money straight away and then started buffing me off about delivery. I cancelled it and they refunded quick enough and the new set turned up quickly.

[bertiedog]

You can go on with a session, it is just do not leave it on for say 20 minutes with nothing happening. The flux is acid, water is just the solvent. When they say water based it is in comparison to grease and tallow or rosin fluxes.

 

Temperature controlled irons switch the power on and off continuously, so don't worry about switching off and back on. In a normal evenings work it should be no worry, it will be in regular enough use. Make sure the tip is well ventilated when on the rest, don't cover it, rest it direct on a table, or stop air cooling the tip whilst idle, and get in the habit of regular re-tinning with leaded solder.

 

Stephen.

[craigwelsh]

Its not you! We discussed this with Antex tips before, at least 3 people have had it happen. Mine did it with a new tip from Maplins, tried again with a second tip and its been fine for 3 months now.

 

When they tip properly you can leave the iron on all night without any issues wiping it on the sponge in the morning (no i didn't intend on doing it! ).

 

You don't need any abrasives and if you do try them it'll just blacken again. You'll have to chuck the tip and try a new one otherwise you'll have to use one of those tins of tip cleaner between every application of solder .

 

Try to wash the tip before you first use it as they seem to be coated in something.

 

No idea why it happens but i've had a tip last 3 years when it does tin so im not too bothered about losing a couple of tips to the issue..

 

edit: Here was the old thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/17177-soldering-iron-wont-tinn

[coachmann]

Without getting complicated, I'll just ask : Are you using Carrs 145 or in fact any Carrs solder bought recently?

[Gilbert]

Its not you! We discussed this with Antex tips before, at least 3 people have had it happen. Mine did it with a new tip from Maplins, tried again with a second tip and its been fine for 3 months now.

 

When they tip properly you can leave the iron on all night without any issues wiping it on the sponge in the morning (no i didn't intend on doing it! ).

 

You don't need any abrasives and if you do try them it'll just blacken again. You'll have to chuck the tip and try a new one otherwise you'll have to use one of those tins of tip cleaner between every application of solder .

 

Try to wash the tip before you first use it as they seem to be coated in something.

 

No idea why it happens but i've had a tip last 3 years when it does tin so im not too bothered about losing a couple of tips to the issue..

 

edit: Here was the old thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/17177-soldering-iron-wont-tinn

 

 

I very pleased the OP has posted! - I've had the same with Antex - even with new tips. So its not just me..

Chris

[John_Hughes]

I dumped the damp sponge routine years ago in favour of the little tub of brass shavings that various suppliers sell; it's a real bit-saver!

[Kenton]

I do not use damp sponges/pads as I find they add more rubbish to the tip.

 

My iron gets switched on almost every day at about 09:00hr and switches off on a timer at 22:00hr (I've forgotten and left it on overnight too often) I haven't felt the need to change a tip for probably well over a year.

 

I use a tin of brass shavings to clean the tip several times a day and re-tin with solder paint straight away.

I have had to remove black crud from a tip - I don't know why it happens on the odd occasion it does. It seems to happen when I leave the iron standing unused for a length of time (holidays, work trips) I guess it is the unwashed flux reacting with atmospherics - whatever it always seems to rub off in the brass shavings.

 

Perhaps I've been lucky but I have never had a duff tip - but would definitely avoid the cheap replacements along with the £9.99 "bargain" iron.

[coachmann]

My iron is on much of each week as you'de expect when its my living, and the sponge is full of crap. It doesn't matter a jot so long as its thoroughly wet.

 

What I did discover only a few weeks ago was some recently bought-in solder was laying a layer of what I can only call 'plastic resistance' on the face of the soldering iron tip after about a minute. Thrown completely off balance, I went out and mixed up a fresh mix of flux but the same thing continued to happen. I couldn't get on with doing my job!

 

Luckily I found a strand of the solder I had been using for the past 10 years hidden behind a box so I cleaned the soldering iron tip and used this solder I'd found. No problems whatsoever....it kept the tip tinned as it always had done with occasional wipes on the wet sponge. Fortunately a colleage has helped out with more of the old solder.

 

This is why I asked if the OP was using Carrs solder. Maybe I've been unlucky? Is it contaminated? Is it a new batch? Is it lead-free? I simply dont know, but what I do know is it's useless!

 

 

[melmerby]

As I have stated in another thread I have recently purchased an MMP brass Catfish kit to build. Realising that my Antex xs25 soldering iron was in dire need of a new tip I invested in a set of three from Maplins for £9.99. Ignoring a temperatiure controlled soldering station for the same price while I was there.

 

Chris

 

Do you mean this iron, which Maplins have been selling for some time at various prices. I paid £14.99 or £19.99 I think.

 

soldering iron

 

It is not really temperature controlled, just adjustable power to iron.

The one I had lasted just over 12 months and the element burnt out! No spare elements or bits are (were?) available.

So I bought a cheap iron from a tool shop and wired that to the base unit. It uses standard copper bits as well which the Maplin iron didn't.

That has served me well for some time.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

I have the the soldering station you walked past. The set also came with spare tips. I also saw a number of demos by professional (?) modellers at Warley using the same set.

 

 

Strange!

 

I know it now says that spares are available and that a set of three tips are an accessory but mine did not have any spare bits and when I contacted Maplin they assured me they did not stock any spares for this iron hence my replacing the iron with another!

(See above post)

 

Keith

[bertiedog]

I have a feeling the 145 types have been reformulated to lower or eliminate lead recently, this may cause a change in technique.

 

Lead based solder is still made and always will be' as the legislation allows craft and existing use, and restoration of items using lead, make sure the tinning solder is the lead type, even if you then use tin solder for the work.

 

The ROHS regulations mainly apply to lead free solders for electronics, and all solder from Maplins, and electronics suppliers, unless specifically stated will be lead free solder.

 

For ANY soldering iron, use a lamp dimmer wired into the mains supply, allows the temperature to be controlled, allowing higher rated tougher irons to be used, my father's old Henley Solon 120 watt is used like this and it's element dates from 1943, it has never been replaced.

 

Stephen.

[Campaman]

I have had this happen in the past and at the time it seemed that the tip was picking up rubbish from my sponge, possibly as the sponge started to dry out a bit.

 

I now tin by wrapping a small length of solder round the tip of the cold iron before I turn it on, this way the solder melts as the earliest point of the heating up period.

 

I also have a small soft brass bristled suede brush that I gently brush the tip with periodically in use if it looks to be blackening, since using this procedure (still use the wet sponge) I have had no problems and the tips stay good.

 

I am now a happy solderer.

[chriswright03]

Without getting complicated, I'll just ask : Are you using Carrs 145 or in fact any Carrs solder bought recently?

 

Not too sure to be honest what it is as I purchased it from Building O gauge Online along with the flux but it does contain lead.

 

Chris

[R A Watson]

The RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) Regulations apply to materials used in commercial situations to prohibit the use of any heavy metals or environmentaly threatening substances thereby stopping their entry into the "Waste Stream" - a dustbin or skip to you or me - and eventually landfill. Anyone using these materials for personal or hobby consumption is not included in the applicable catagories, therefore we do not need to worry too much, the applicable materials we use most are lead in solder and rosin fluxes such as in cored solder wire.

 

Anyone who builds models for others on a commercial basis will be caught in the commercial category and need to exercise more caution.

 

Carrs ran, some time ago, a campaign to persuade modelers to purchase their remaining stocks of leaded solder before they become illegal since then their new stocks are lead free possibly leading to the problems some people are experiencing.

 

Wally

[chriswright03]

Wow loads of help there folks, thanks. In answer to some of the points. I have used the sponge which was wet but I read somewhere about not using one sort of sponge so maybe mine a cheap supermarket pan scourer type is wrong. Whilst not being used the iron stands in a stand so the air should get to it I would have thought. I was actually soldering part of the chassis so it took all of 15 - 20 minutes and it was cleaned on the sponge each time before being placed back in the springy stand.

 

I think I need to invest in a tub of the brass shavings. I know it has been said they are available from a number of places but are they all specialist suppliers or would Maplin's do them?

 

As regards the cheap temperature controlled iron tips are available for £4.99 for three but they are all the same as the one on the iron thin pointed ones as opposed to the sort with one flat surface. That was why I did not bother with it as I thought those tips were more for circuit board type soldering and not any good for this work. Am I wrong?

 

I shall try to clean this tip first as suggested then if that does not work replace it with the second of the three and try again. Thanks everyone for the help and advice. I suppose this really is why many of us think soldering is a black art form.

 

Chris

[coachmann]

I doubt plumbers will change old habits or their solder.

[chriswright03]

Just another thought about the Antex tips. Has anyone tried taking them back to Maplins and complaining? Might try that this week as they are just up the road from work.Chris

[bertiedog]

I doubt plumbers will change old habits or their solder.

Plumbers are the only group forced to change completely, all solder in potential contact with water must be lead free already for new installations and repair only is allowed on older pipes, with replacement advised.

 

All new industrial uses are meant to be lead free. The bye that models have is that it is an existing craft use without suitable replacement, and use is allowed for servicing existing lead soldered joints where replacement is impractical.

There is no specific bye for models as such, as tin type solder is considered suitable, and indeed is, if correctly used.

 

The leaded low melt alloys have had bismuth increased to lower melting points, as bismuth is now not considered toxic, but there are questions about the fumes, and over heating causing oxides to form that make the joint less sound. The overheating may explain blackening being more common with 145^o solder, with a higher bismuth metal content than before.

 

Stephen.

[craigwelsh]

Carrs ran, some time ago, a campaign to persuade modelers to purchase their remaining stocks of leaded solder before they become illegal since then their new stocks are lead free possibly leading to the problems some people are experiencing.

Wally

Possibly the only use of scare tactics and small print in model railways that one! They must have sold many many kg's of solder as a result.

 

Wow loads of help there folks, thanks. In answer to some of the points. I have used the sponge which was wet but I read somewhere about not using one sort of sponge so maybe mine a cheap supermarket pan scourer type is wrong. Whilst not being used the iron stands in a stand so the air should get to it I would have thought. I was actually soldering part of the chassis so it took all of 15 - 20 minutes and it was cleaned on the sponge each time before being placed back in the springy stand.

Most pan scourers are a sort of synthetic plastic 'sponge' whereas the expanding type you get for soldering is I think a more natural type. I've melted a scourer onto a hob before now with nasty plastic looking results , probably not helping you there. I use the original Antex sponge from a solder kit 5 years old, I just wash it before and after each session under the tap to neutralise any water based acid in it.

 

I think I need to invest in a tub of the brass shavings. I know it has been said they are available from a number of places but are they all specialist suppliers or would Maplin's do them?

Try tinning another tip first with good leaded and cored electrical range solder, if it tins properly you should be fine with a proper sponge.

 

As regards the cheap temperature controlled iron tips are available for £4.99 for three but they are all the same as the one on the iron thin pointed ones as opposed to the sort with one flat surface. That was why I did not bother with it as I thought those tips were more for circuit board type soldering and not any good for this work. Am I wrong?

There is an A and B pack available, the one pack having a selection of tip types or there was when I got one as I removed the pointy tip and use a flat one..

 

I shall try to clean this tip first as suggested then if that does not work replace it with the second of the three and try again. Thanks everyone for the help and advice. I suppose this really is why many of us think soldering is a black art form.

Chris

Has the tip blackened further up where you don't apply solder? This is certainly the case on the tip I had go wrong, as if it'd been under a candle. The normal one I have just looks like it could do with a polish in this area. Try a clean and then if not tip another holding the solder around the tip from when you plug the iron in and heat it.

 

 

The newer tips are better than the older split ones with a collar. I had one of those weld itself to an element, had to replace the element as well as the tip on that! If i'd realised at the time i'd have put some graphite or something on before the tip.

[ozzyo]

Possibly the only use of scare tactics and small print in model railways that one! They must have sold many many kg's of solder as a result.

 

 

 

I think that Mr L. knew what he was doing at that time.

 

The newer tips are better than the older split ones with a collar. I had one of those weld itself to an element, had to replace the element as well as the tip on that! If i'd realised at the time i'd have put some graphite or something on before the tip.

 

 

 

 

A bit late now Craig but if this happens again try using your slitting disc to cut down from the slots to the tip. It fooks the tip but its cheaper than a new element. How do I know? Don't ask, but it does work.

 

With the old tips if they start to become difficult to remove run a 4.8mm drill down them (by hand using a tap wrench) and give the element a good brush with a brass brush.

 

For 145 deg. solder try Mr. Metalsmith.

 

OzzyO.