Industrial siding - is it realistic to operate this way?

[norseman]

I am building a sectional layout for home and exhibition use. Two boards are finished, plain twin track leading into station and onwards to fiddle yards. I am currently extending the layout with two more boards, and have built a small industrial building in one corner, maybe thinking of a brewery. However, as I have built most scenery, I realise that the only way to operate the siding is to run the short goods trains both to and from the station on the down line, meaning that they will go in the wrong direction heading out from the siding.

 

I don't have space enough for a crossover, as it would mean a very steep gradient up towards the industrial site.

 

Would such an operation be allowed on the prototype?

 

My layout depicts early 1990s. Would any breweries still use trains for cargo? Or should I maybe make the siding a rusty, derelict, abandoned one?

 

See sketch below, any suggestions and advice welcome!

 

[AMJ]

You will either need a catch point or head shunt to stop any potential run aways from the industry onto the main line.

 

There are many modern locations that had bi-directional signalling to yards like this to minimise crossings.

[Oldddudders]

With proper signalling in any era, wrong direction movements are entirely safe and normal. By the 90s, reversible signalling was becoming even more commonplace due to the versatility of the operations it offered. Whole main lines had SIMBIDS (Simplified BI-Directional Signalling) to allow for engineering possessions and other contingencies. While others will be well able to give you chapter and verse on where to place your signals, the idea is entirely supportable.

[Steven B]

Another option to wrong line running is for the train to run past the industrial site to find somewhere it can run round and cross to the line with access to the siding, so appart from reversing into (or out of) the industrial siding the train always runs in the normal direction for the line. This was (and still is) quite common.

 

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[dave_long]

Hi The old junction at Smethwick is a wrong line working junction, although the line off the junction went a good few miles before servicing a cement facility and scrap yard, there would have been a working of about a quarter mile wrong line. My research thread is here for Smethwick West

[DonB]

Your industry unit looks a bit small to have its own loco.

So did the rail companies allow their locos to shunt private sidings? (I thought not!). Or are you proposing rail company owned/operated sidings, with access openings in the factory walls?

A company that I worked for had capstan shunting of their small sidings complex from late 1880's until about 1923, when they invested in a loco. The entrance to the works sidings originally had a gate, and had a notice limiting the access for locomotives.

[norseman]

Thanks for replies all of you!

 

To be quite honest, I built an industrial building without considering too much about what kind of traffic it could receive.

 

DonB is probably right when he suggests my industry is too small for having it's own loco. So the next question is: Would BR shunt to an industrial siding providing the distance from the main yard (where the shunting loco is stationed) was only a few hundred yards away?

 

Long term plan for the layout is to extend beyond the station end, adding a yard, and maybe a Red Star parcel point beside the station.

 

However, as my main interest is scratchbuilding structures, planning the railway operation has taken second priority.

That's why I greatly appreciate all "expert" advice.

[Guest stuartp]

By the date your layout is set, I would have thought most of them were shunted by BR locos, there were still a few trips left serving local sidings. They were becoming few and far between but (I think) Speedlink was still handling wagonload traffic.

 

You need to have a rummage in books, Flickr, Fotopic etc for examples of short freight trains.

[JeremyC]

Norseman,

 

Unless there were large amounts of shunting or an internal railway system the working of an industrial siding by a Railway Company locomotive was quite normal. Where there was internal work the industrial concern might still have it done by the railway company or hire a loco from them for their own use.

 

Jeremy

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I could be wrong but I believe that a private siding with its own loco would have an exchange siding where a full train would be marshalled for collection/delivery by a main line loco.

 

Pre the 1960's there was little in the way of 'private' work as the railway was obliged to carry any and all goods put its way and many a small loco was engaged in shunting on lines within large industrial complexes that used the railway. It was also the era of the pick up freight where one wagon might be picked up from sidings and then taken to a marshalling yard for onward movement. All of these wagons were owned by and leased from BR.

 

By the 90's all this had disappeared and the railways would only be interested in running complete trains. This accounts for the growth of the artic lorry traffic which has taken over the pick up freight traffic.

 

So your industrial site would need to justify running quite a few wagons for the economics. Most sidings that were designated 'private' were closed, lifted and converted to lorry parks.

[R A Watson]

Another approach is to make the turnout a plain diamond crossing connected to a turnout in the other line, the train then comes up "right line" and sets back across the diamond into the siding.

 

You will still need, as others have pointed out, a trap or catch point (depending on your choice of terminology) in the siding to stop runaways.

 

Wally

[scottishlocos]

Hi all

 

looks like a good plan i think a headshunt or catch point would be a good idea

 

on the subject of the freight if you are going to have a brewery the traffic

could carbon dioxide (CO2) loaded in tanks these ran until the mid to late 90's

to the Diegio plant at Leven in Fife

 

Finished products go out by road but some of these would be in containers and would go on to a train

at one of the large yards Mossend Trafford park etc #

 

regards

 

Dave

[scottishlocos]

In addition i would say the correct type of tank for CO2 is not available RTR but

suitable re-livered TTA could be used i also think ther may be a kit

 

however for finished goods from the brewery some VGA vans would be suitable

 

 

the pic shows a class 37 with some CO2 tanks the one behind the loco is a

china clay hopper i have better pics of these somewhere will dig them out

 

Regards

 

Dave

[edcayton]

If you want an industrial shunter (and why not?) then you could run one of the sidings through the backscene to the FY and suggest a bigger internal network.

 

Ed

[The Stationmaster]

Another approach is to make the turnout a plain diamond crossing connected to a turnout in the other line, the train then comes up "right line" and sets back across the diamond into the siding.

 

You will still need, as others have pointed out, a trap or catch point (depending on your choice of terminology) in the siding to stop runaways.

 

Wally

 

Far better (although by then some civil engineers were getting less than keen on diamond crossings). But normally you want to shunt sidings as a trailing move and there was definitely a strong feeling emerging against propelling over any sort of distance on running lines by the early 1990s.

 

The other thing by then of course was that freight tripping had been cutback enormously and very often a through train would do the shunting. For instance Taunton Cider lost its trip working in the first lot of hefty Speedlink cutbacks and from then on (until it ceased to be rail served) was shunted by a passing through freight using the train engine.