Bachmann Class 40 to be re-tooled

[Pennine MC]

My mistake, the announcement is merely coincidental. They'll be retooling the 25 as well then?

 

 

I've no idea on that one Dave, I just get fed up of Bachmann being damned whatever they do. If they announce something too early, people moan about the delays and say they're queering the pitch for other firms. If they announce after another manufacturer has said they're doing something, folk accuse them of bullying or copying.

 

 

Of course, the real issue is will this be a retooling, or another rehash....

 

AFAICS their intention here is to rectify one of their more flawed models and produce something definitive; I havent read REx but knowing Gareth Bayer's well known preoccupation with the model, I doubt he'd misunderstand the situation. And still Bachmann are getting flak for it; Hornby meanwhile b*gger about with twenty year old Lima mouldings (and not even the best Lima), and that's somehow OK

[Dave47549]

.

[ClikC]

I'm not holding my breath... But if Bachmann make a decent effort I'll personally put my hand in my pocket for 20+.

 

There is a massive difference between what is wrong with the current Bachmann 40, and the general perception of people think is wrong with the Bachmann 40.

 

Anyone want to take bets on me having to use three different class 40 bodies to cut'n'shut into one?

 

Regards

 

Matt

[James]

There is a massive difference between what is wrong with the current Bachmann 40, and the general perception of people think is wrong with the Bachmann 40.

 

A lot of people just jumped on the band wagon on this one; very few people actually looked at the two bodies and properly assessed the options.

 

I really hope the body is fundamentally right - I hope they can even get the windscreens correct too. Even the pre-production 'new' 37/0's have appalling arrangements here.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Not wishing to trigger a frothstorm, but has any kind of timescale been offered on this project?

 

Dave.

[ClikC]

A lot of people just jumped on the band wagon on this one; very few people actually looked at the two bodies and properly assessed the options.

 

I really hope the body is fundamentally right - I hope they can even get the windscreens correct too. Even the pre-production 'new' 37/0's have appalling arrangements here.

 

 

I've not taken a set of calipers to the re-tooled 37/4's, but does anyone know of Bachmann fixed the bonnet hight error on them? As the 40's also suffer from this, and in fact (excluding all the body detail moulding errors) is the only thing actually wrong with the shape of the body. To this end after a lengthy discussion with Brian Hanson at StormEx, I certainly gave him food fro thought on the idea of using the existing Bachmann body as a starting point for an accurate model. I should give him a ring actually, see if he's found a big enough tape measure to prove me wrong yet!

 

If Bachmann stick the bonnet nose up 1-mm and correct the size and positioning of the roof detail moldings, they'll be onto a winner. With Brian's range of 37/40 detail parts, a top notch 40 would be very easy.

 

The nightmare scenario is Bachmann effectively sticking 1-mm of body to the bottom half, and leaving everything else un touched.

 

 

 

Not wishing to trigger a frothstorm, but has any kind of timescale been offered on this project?

 

Dave.

 

An unknown source didn't indicate to me that is might not be in the the 2011 catalog, but the 2012. However, as this is all official and what not now, i expect it will appear in the 2011 cat.

 

But don't hold me to that, as we were also discussing something else Bachmann are not making yet, which will fit nicely onto a new Chassis that was announced this year...

 

I apologize for all the froth.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[craigwelsh]

I really hope the body is fundamentally right - I hope they can even get the windscreens correct too. Even the pre-production 'new' 37/0's have appalling arrangements here.

Must admit i'm not too bothered what the windscreens look like now out of the box. I've just fitted laser cut glazing to an 08 and having seen that along with the solution Brian has out now with etches for the class 37 i'd fit that anyway no matter what Bachmann did.

 

 

The REX Mostyn article on making accurate class 40s was one of their best contributions to that mag imho and details the differences well, hopefully we will see both variations of cantrail grille eventually though I guess you'll need something from Shawplan to do one of the boiler arrangements.

[Baby Deltic]

Hopefully if they are just sorting out the body shell, these will become available at a reasonable price to retrofit older loco's. The basic chassis and mechanism are fine. I have picked up the latest class 45 bodies on box shifter stands to retro fit all my early peaks.

[johnd]

From what I have understood from Bachmann the are re doing the chassis, the old one the body sat to high, it is being redone to accomodate sound, lighting including cab lights I believe I just wish the give us the option of setting up the lights so we can switch the reds independently by using a decoder for those with DCC, makes sense if fitting it with sound.

[James]

Of course, the real issue is will this be a retooling, or another rehash....

 

One thing I'm curious to know, and the misuse of the term 'retooled' in the press and on the net doesn't help, is if the exisiting tooling will be modified or a new tool made.

 

If it could be to the standard of DELTIC then the result could be amazing. I hope other areas get attention too; the shallow axle boxes rather spoil the underframe's appearance on the forty and the peaks.

 

Must admit i'm not too bothered what the windscreens look like now out of the box. I've just fitted laser cut glazing to an 08 and having seen that along with the solution Brian has out now with etches for the class 37 i'd fit that anyway no matter what Bachmann did.

 

I know what you mean but I think the single slab effect of the windscreen plane is a huge failing. The shape should be more of \_/ arrangement which is totally missed and gives a very thick pillar ahead of the rainstrip by the cab side window.

 

Oddly, this was one area where the original 37/4 from Bachmann did quite well.

[James]

From what I have understood from Bachmann the are re doing the chassis, the old one the body sat to high, it is being redone to accomodate sound, lighting including cab lights I believe I just wish the give us the option of setting up the lights so we can switch the reds independently by using a decoder for those with DCC, makes sense if fitting it with sound.

 

The model doesn't really need lights; the era in which they ran in doesn't really require lights at all in the daytime.

 

If a new chassis is going to accompany an all new body it could be very interesting.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Either way I'm rather looking forward to the new model, it will save me a heavy hacking job (I think I've got enough to do with all the kits in the pile!) I will be using the Shawplan glazing as a matter of course.

 

Dave.

[coachmann]

History did not provide modellers with whitemetal and brass kits of diesels in the 1960s, 70s and 80s when kits for steam locos were at their height. By no means all perfect, it was down to the individual modeller to produce something satisfactory to him.

 

Never having built a kit or attempted to make a decent model out of a poor kit, I wonder if this is why todays D&E buyers are so critical of toy makers diesel models and are looking for absolute perfection? Admittedly I've never run a fine ruler over them, but then I don't over steam locos. In general most of todays locos capture the essence of the prototype.

 

Also, I why is the Railroad series and perfection are being mentioned in the same sentence?

[owentherail]

Is this why weve been waiting so long for the split headcode blue 40 and sound version.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Yep!

 

Dave.

[James]

History did not provide modellers with whitemetal and brass kits of diesels in the 1960s, 70s and 80s when kits for steam locos were at their height. By no means all perfect, it was down to the individual modeller to produce something satisfactory to him.

 

Never having built a kit or attempted to make a decent model out of a poor kit, I wonder if this is why todays D&E buyers are so critical of toy makers diesel models and are looking for absolute perfection? Admittedly I've never run a fine ruler over them, but then I don't over steam locos. In general most of todays locos capture the essence of the prototype.

 

Also, I why is the Railroad series and perfection are being mentioned in the same sentence?

 

I think it's not a case of looking for perfection, not in my case anyway, but more after something which is fundamentally correct at a basic level; correct in main dimensions, curves in the right place (this applies in other parts of life too I guess!) and that it looks right. This last one is a hard one - people have been very nice abnout 37 219 which appears in my signature yet it is dimensionally flawed due to the use of a Lima moulding yet it looks right to me... odd... Even a basic bodyshell which fulfills these criteria has more far more promise for the finescale modeller than a mis-shapen effort even if it has a wonderful chassis and other 'features'. My thread on Class 31s gives an example of this -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/19369-brush-type-2-re-birth/

 

I think the original 37/4 from Bachmann kicked this off - there'd been so much hype surrounding it but the result was very disappointing. The old Yahoo group DEMod was at the heart of a lot of this online debate. I wonder if this is what led to Chris Leigh's infamous comments about 'self appointed experts'?

 

The one downside of this analysis was that many people jumped on the bandwagon without really trying to understand what was wrong. And now, having worked on the railway, I get more annoyed by poor layouts. Well not by the standard, but the attitude of some modellers. Hyper-critical of RTR releases yet their supposedly modern 'layouts' are really just steam age practice with diesels - infracsture takes no account of any modernisation or might not even feature modern signage for example.

[brushman47544]

From what I have understood from Bachmann the are re doing the chassis, the old one the body sat to high, it is being redone to accomodate sound, lighting including cab lights I believe I just wish the give us the option of setting up the lights so we can switch the reds independently by using a decoder for those with DCC, makes sense if fitting it with sound.

This was my understanding too - I seem to recall Dennis Lovett from Bachmann being quoted some time ago as saying that the factory in China was going through the process of upgrading most if not all their loco chassis to be DCC Ready and to accomodate lights and sound - the most recent completed example being the Warship. The upgraded Class 40 was announced ages ago and has been a long time coming. Perhaps Bachmann have now decided to upgrade the bodyshell as well, although I didn't think that was the original intention, and it might explain the further delay in its release.

 

But was their first effort really so bad, other than sitting high on its bogies? It was certainly better than the first, and since much improvded, Class 37s.

[ClikC]

If a new chassis is going to accompany an all new body it could be very interesting.

 

I would hope that the Bogie's would pivot over the centre axle of a 1-Co arrangement, but as this didn't happen on the recent 45 efforts, I'm doubtful.

 

Certainly any extra effort in the under-frame department will be appreciated, as there is far to much air their on both the current Bachmann and lima/soon to be Hornby effort.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[James]

But was their first effort really so bad, other than sitting high on its bogies?

Yes.

 

The bodysides were reduced in height so the overall height was OK - much like Lima did with their 37. There was also a question of the cantrail curve starting low low down. The result, therefore, was flawed to the extent whereby a correct scale model couldn't be made from it.

[Horsetan]

.....Anyone want to take bets on me having to use three different class 40 bodies to cut'n'shut into one?.....

 

Dunno. Is there a book open, and what are the odds?

 

Anyway, you'll have some way to go to beat "37114"'s record (mentioned in the parallel Railroad 40 thread) of using five bodies to get the shape he wanted! I'd still like to know how he did it - can't find a link anywhere.

 

.....The REX Mostyn article on making accurate class 40s was one of their best contributions to that mag imho and details the differences well....

 

Which issue was that, and where can I get a copy, please?

[ClikC]

Yes.

 

The bodysides were reduced in height so the overall height was OK - much like Lima did with their 37. There was also a question of the cantrail curve starting low low down. The result, therefore, was flawed to the extent whereby a correct scale model couldn't be made from it.

 

I'll second James here, adding;

 

The Bonnet nose top sits 1-mm to low, however people ignore this because it still lines up with the cab side windows correctly, but these are also 1-mm too low. But these all line up with the body side windows, because low and behold the detail on the body has been lowered or squashed but 1-mm to accommodate the incorrectly positioned Cantrail grilles. Which are so low down the body as to make the curve nearly completely flat (again 1-mm), also all the detail on the roof is overly large, stretched presumably to take up the space gained by making everything else wrong

 

It's holds the crown of worst looking RTR model I've every bought.

 

But, I still maintain with the correct etches and a LOT of work, an almost scale model could be made of it. The forth coming cantrail grills from Shawplan are the real clincher here. But then it's far easier to make a decent model that captures the look of a 40 if you use a lima body.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[ClikC]

Dunno. Is there a book open, and what are the odds?

Anyway, you'll have some way to go to beat "37114"'s record (mentioned in the parallel Railroad 40 thread) of using five bodies to get the shape he wanted! I'd still like to know how he did it - can't find a link anywhere.

 

Which issue was that, and where can I get a copy, please?

 

Haha, probably 2 to 1 on.

 

Thats pretty hardcore, I admire the dedication to the cause.

 

You should still be able to pick it up as a back order, it's a quality article and a great source of inspiration, especially if you want to take it further.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[coachmann]

Scale drawings can be misleading particularly where the draughtsman has tried to position detail in perspective on a roof or bonnet. A top plan is just as difficult. The only way to be really sure is to crawl all over a real diesel and take ones own measurments from every conceivable angle for cross-checking purposes.

 

Has this been carried out by the people who say 1mm is lost here or is too low there, or a model holds the crown for the worst looking model? If it has, then.....respect.

[ClikC]

Scale drawings can be misleading particularly where the draughtsman has tried to position detail in perspective on a roof or bonnet. A top plan is just as difficult. The only way to be really sure is to crawl all over a real diesel and take ones own measurments from every conceivable angle for cross-checking purposes.

 

Has this been carried out by the people who say 1mm is lost here or is too low there, or a model holds the crown for the worst looking model? If it has, then.....respect.

 

 

Agreed, I've a large number of Class 40 drawings, and I can pick faults with all of them.

 

Admittedly for me, no (I blame living about 250 miles from the nearest preserved Class 40). But I know a man who has, over two different prototypes as-well. Measurements of the model have been compared to known values of the prototype.

 

The "1-mm" has just been gleamed from careful observation of the prototype, and my attempts are correcting the Bachmann 40 cab's, in conjunction with the lima body. The figure may be +/- .05-mm, but getting it close too while working with bits of plastic, a file and filler is good enough for me.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... If Bachmann ... correct the size and positioning of the roof detail moldings, they'll be onto a winner. ...

One day, at some point well in the future when no one feels sensitive about it anymore, I would love to hear the story of what went wrong there. Such a weird error, almost as though everything slid down the roof either side under gravity.