Bachmann Class 40 to be re-tooled

[Guest jim s-w]

Hi Larry

 

I kind of straddle the fence - if its a class I like (class 25, 31, 50, 86) then all I want is a sound base to do my thing. However if its a class that leaves me cold (class 47) I would love something out tof the box I dont have to mess about with.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Garry D100]

Already briefly mentioned here http://www.rmweb.co....o-hear-the-40s/

 

And my original post from 37/0 thread re info I found out at DEMU.

 

I spoke to Bachmann at the DEMU event re the Class 40.

Because there were other errors with the model they do not want to just do a simple chassis upgrade like on other models.

They are looking towards a full rework, body and chassis.

This will of course take time, and no, they had no timescales on this, I did ask

 

If it comes out anything like the quality of the new Peaks and the forthcoming 37/0's I will be a happy bunny.

[Horsetan]

.....You should still be able to pick it up as a back order, it's a quality article and a great source of inspiration, especially if you want to take it further.

 

Yes, but which month and year was the issue?

[ClikC]

Yes, but which month and year was the issue?

 

Whoops! December 2005 issue no.115 (Rail Express Modeller supplement No. 20).

 

HTH

 

Regards

 

Matt

[Dave47549]

.

[James]

Ahh not checked the current model very closely then...

 

I was referring to the Class 40, the subject of the thread. So I will stand by what I said. The confusion may have occured because Craig referred to the Class 37 etches, which of course, are suitable for the class 40 as well.

 

The 'current model' you refer I think is the refurbished class 37 going by your first photo Paul. I agree it's much better; this view of my model of 37 677 will show there was no need to add the '\_/' shape, the etch being applied directly to the model.

 

 

If Bachmann's mark 2 class 40 captures the shape in the way I think this version captures the class 37, I'll be more than happy

[coachmann]

As I don't currently have a layout, any point of focus I had has evaporated for now and my mind has begun to wander. I have recently discovered one problem with diesels. They are beginning to look very tasty! I bought an non-LMS loco on impulse recently and I'm now reading all the threads on diesels. Where's me pills? Am I becoming a D&E addict?

[Horsetan]

..... one problem with diesels. They are beginning to look very tasty!......Where's me pills? Am I becoming a D&E addict?

 

I've long had a couple of Hymeks (Hornby and Heljan), plus a pair of (Lima) 40s - the centre of one now hacked and welded to Bachmann cabs/noses - and lurking about in a drawer is a Triang 31 body plus all etched Tru-Scale bogies (yes, that bogie kit where you even had to build up the leaf springs layer by layer from the etch!)

[ClikC]

One day, at some point well in the future when no one feels sensitive about it anymore, I would love to hear the story of what went wrong there. Such a weird error, almost as though everything slid down the roof either side under gravity.

 

I think I put my finger on it. Basically, due to working in plastic (and not steel as per the prototype) in order to be able to get the moulded plastic glazing in place, Bachmann had to lower the nose bonnet top and the position of the cab windows downwards. Cab side windows then lowered to match the position of the bonnet edge, then the Cantrail grills and body side details lowered / squashed to keep alignment with the Cab side windows and bonnet edge. Then the roof detail was probably extended to fill in the gap generated. Or thats my theory.

 

Judging by James's 37 677 based on the re-tooled Bachmann 37 body (and please don't take offense to this james, as it's an excellent job so far judging by the picture) there is still to much plastic above the top of the cab windscreen etch for my liking and in comparison to the prototype. This makes me think the nose bonnet hight issue shared with the 40's hasn't been corrected.

 

If Bachmann follow the same lines with the 40 re-tool, and can get the body sides and the moulded roof details correct, but leave the cab ends. Then a top notch 40 could be easily made by utilizing the shawplan cab windscreen etches and laser cut glazing, and jacking the bonnet nose top up, and some replacement resin noses of the correct size.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[James]

Erm you added 37's to the mix actually, posts 29 and 35, craig then said he'd fitted 08 glazing. I don't think any confusion is coming from there.

 

I can't understand your stance on this, first you say the models need a 'V', then you say theres no need to add a 'V' to the etch, which means as you've used an etch (which are flat) you're now saying the front of 37's and 40's are flat ... Which they aren't. The Shawplan etches have fold lines to help with getting this crucial feature right.

 

Paul, sometimes I struggle to express myself in words; I'm dyslexic. It's not helped when people are looking pick things apart. It's a very frustrating process all round.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the newer class 37 body doesn't require remedial work for the shaped front in the way that the existing class 40 does; I didn't actually mean the etch wasn't shaped. As the newer model has the '\_/' shape applying the etch 'directly to the model' meant that the etch will have the correct shape in all the various planes too.

[James]

and please don't take offense to this james, as it's an excellent job so far judging by the picture

 

No offense taken Matt!

 

It better once it was painted - the light plastic doesn't help things either!

[griffgriff]

Wasn't this mentioned elsewhere?

 

If not I must have become psychic because I'm sure I knew this - what else is in my crystal ball B)

 

 

Already briefly mentioned here http://www.rmweb.co....o-hear-the-40s/

 

And my original post from 37/0 thread re info I found out at DEMU.

 

I thought I'd read it somewhere...

 

I shall have to put said crystal ball back in in the cupboard

[37114]

Dunno. Is there a book open, and what are the odds?

 

Anyway, you'll have some way to go to beat "37114"'s record (mentioned in the parallel Railroad 40 thread) of using five bodies to get the shape he wanted! I'd still like to know how he did it - can't find a link anywhere.

 

 

It was on the old forum, hence why you won't find it on here, I think if you search for 40135 on the old forum you should find it. TBH if Bachmann comes up with the goods I will probably replace my frankenstein version, but will wait till I have seen it in the flesh, I am not getting stung like I did when I sold my heavily detailed Lima version when Bachmann first announced a 40 as I assumed it would better...

 

The Mostyn article was a great help with the chassis detail on my version, it is amazing how much detail Bachmann missed, so I for one hope they sort the chassis as well as the body.

[Pennine MC]

. It's not helped when people are looking pick things apart.

 

 

 

Sauce for the goose I'd say, James

[Pennine MC]

History did not provide modellers with whitemetal and brass kits of diesels in the 1960s, 70s and 80s when kits for steam locos were at their height. By no means all perfect, it was down to the individual modeller to produce something satisfactory to him.

 

The blindingly obvious exception to that being MTK, which I'd suggest absorbed more um, 'fettling' than even the worst of steam kits

What i do recall from the 80's was the constant clamour for better rtr mechanisms. We've got them now, a great leap forward, If we can have that, why the regression with bodies?

 

On what do you base this 'regression' theory, Dave? OK, there are a few relative lemons like the 24/25 already mentioned, but overall I'd suggest the trend is still resolutely upwards

[James]

Its got nothing to do with dyslexia, (I'm very aware of the limitations/frustrations that can bring). You've told us that the shape of the front screens of the Bachmann 40, 'The shape should be more of \_/ arrangement which is totally missed' .

Which is untrue.

 

I beg to differ on how things affect me personally, it affects everyone differently; but I can see I've not been clear and that confusion has fuelled this.

 

In my opinion, there are issues with the Bachmann Class 40. Compared with my notes and measurements I made from D200 few years ago at the NRM and numerous photos, I'm not convinced by the windscreen area on this or, indeed, the older class 37/0's. There's certainly something not right about the cab windows, I think most people can agree on that. Your photo does show it's not perfectly flat, the etch isn't either which accentuates the effect - my view is that on the forty the effect is that of a flat surface; the over thick 'a pillars' don't help.

 

The blindingly obvious exception to that being MTK, which I'd suggest absorbed more um, 'fettling' than even the worst of steam kits[/size]

 

The MOK kits are probably the best of all the diesel kits offered in the past; Q Kits also had a few in their range but the quality could be 'variable'. I have a Baby Deltic of theirs somewhere...

 

On what do you base this theory, Dave? OK, there are a few relative lemons like the original 24/25 already mentioned, but overall I'd suggest the trend is still resolutely upwards

 

If you compared the quality of the tooling (rather than shape or prototype fidelity) of the Lima and Bachmann Class 40's, the Lima one is much finer and more subtle. However, subsequent Bachmann releases have been much better in these terms I think.

[Pennine MC]

The MOK kits are probably the best of all the diesel kits offered in the past; Q Kits also had a few in their range but the quality could be 'variable'. I have a Baby Deltic of theirs somewhere...

 

Quality's not really the point, I was just pointing out to Larry that diesel kits in traditional media weren't entirely unknown

 

On what do you base this 'regression' theory, Dave? OK, there are a few relative lemons like the 24/25 already mentioned, but overall I'd suggest the trend is still resolutely upwards

 

If you compared the quality of the tooling (rather than shape or prototype fidelity) of the Lima and Bachmann Class 40's, the Lima one is much finer and more subtle.

 

I wouldnt disagree with that, I've often championed the finesse of a lot of Lima's moulding. But Dave's comment reads like a more sweeping one, on the state of diesel models in general

[coachmann]

Quality's not really the point, I was just pointing out to Larry that diesel kits in traditional media weren't entirely unknown

Aha, the dreaded MTK kits. Don't worry, Lawrence Scale Models and I were well aware of their existence and ducked!. I wasnt aware they did diesel loco kits though.......

[griffgriff]

Aha, the dreaded MTK kits. Don't worry, Lawrence Scale Models and I were well aware of their existence and ducked!. I wasnt aware they did diesel loco kits though.......

 

MTK did diesel kits...I had no idea... I thought they were representations of soft metal tubes

[Dave47549]

.

['CHARD]

MTK did diesel kits...I had no idea... I thought they were representations of soft metal tubes

 

In '77, my MTK Western was based on a scan of something found in Cornwall. Unfortunately it was a pastie.

[Pennine MC]

... MTK kits. .. I wasnt aware they did diesel loco kits though.......

 

 

They started with (IIRC) a 25 and then a 47, back in about 1970/71. The range expanded to just about everything in the end.

 

Well yes, it was a sweeping generalisation. There's some beauties out there (the 08 pair, Heljan 33/1, ViTrains 47, Hornby 56 & 60 for instance). Having said that, there are as many turkeys (not listing them, they're all well known). Of the turkey list, most have bodies done IMO with more credence iin the 70s/80s. As there are at least as many turkeys as beauties, I think that list justifies my statement, & that no one manufacturer is entirely at fault. Of course, as we all view things differently, you don't have to agree....

 

I agree it's subjective but at this point in time, with the diesel market relatively saturated, I think it's a debate worth developing now you've raised it. As I said, I'll give you the 24 and 25 (although the Hornby one isnt spot on) and we can exclude the 40 as we're discussing it now. The remaining turkeys (and I assume we're still talking basic shape) presumably include these three:

 

Hornby 31 - not perfect, but neither are the Airfix or Lima ones. Probably the most debatable as to which is 'best'; FWIW I find them all within acceptable limits

 

Heljan 33/0 - the roof curve issue is IMO overstated, but I accept that it's a small but important thing to fans of the class. I know we're talking shape, but how anybody thinks the work needed on the crude Lima body outweighs this is beyond me. And as you mention, there's the 33/1 which if desired, provides a route to a correct 33/0 and still using HJ parts

 

Heljan Western - the cab roof issue is well known and does admittedly let it down, but has to be more than outweighed by the oversize windowledge of the Lima one

 

 

Now that's just three models, all debatable (plus the two, arguably three, in the introduction, which have less defence), as against an 08, 20, 26, 27, 35, 37, 42/43, 44/45/46, 47, 50, 55, 56, 58 and 60 that are definite improvements over preceding models. Somebody tell me if I've missed one of the duffers, please.

[James]

If your view is that the above picture, (and modified below), shows the effect of a flat surface even allowing for the tiny amount of bending on the left hand side of the etch, then that's fine, it may be a minority view however.

 

I didn't say it was flat; the overall effect with the other errors gives the appearance, I think, of it being too flat. I'm struggling to think of a way to phrase it to really epsress what I mean. But I don't think it captures the correct look. This is where Brian's etches come in.

 

Paul, I think we can agree that the original Bachmann Class 40 isn't perfect in many respects!

[James]

Heljan 33/0 - the roof curve issue is IMO overstated, but I accept that it's a small but important thing to fans of the class. I know we're talking shape, but how anybody thinks the work needed on the crude Lima body outweighs this is beyond me. And as you mention, there's the 33/1 which if desired, provides a route to a correct 33/0 and still using HJ parts

 

IIRC that was disucssed on an earlier version of RMweb -

 

[griffgriff]

 

 

Heljan 33/0 - the roof curve issue is IMO overstated

 

 

 

How very dare you