Unidentified location

[Nick Holliday]

the unusual buffer stops, and light railway style track suggest to me that it might be a private or industrial railway, perhaps an interchange with the main railway system or perhaps even a staff halt? i seem to recall seeing similar 'homemade' buffer stops in a photo of a colliery system somewhere, but cant find it in any of my reference material at the mo.

jon

Not quite sure what aspect of a fully chaired bullhead track spells "light railway". The general cleanliness suggests a backwater of a major company, everything seems relatively neat and tidy.

 

No-one seems to have followed up the unusual telegraph pole style, the unorthodox V-shaped double pole. I can only find this type in any numbers on Caledonian lines, and looking at LMS Architecture by Anderson & Fox, there is a note about the fairly similar Killin and Loch Tay timber buildings - "They represent a type of shelter found at small stations throughout the system. The fascia ornamentation is typical of CR northern division." The chimney stack has a strong family resemblence, so I am tempted to move my previous allegiance from NBR to Caledonian, and to somewhere in their southern division, which would match the less mountainous scenic background.

[Anglian]

I noticed the unusual double telegraph pole but to be honest I've seen similar before and I'm not convinced its a purely regional style although of course its use may well have been more common in a given area. I do agree from a brief look that the building has an air of the Caledonian region about it. I found this site but it might take a very long to trawl through all the known station places…

 

www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk

[eastwestdivide]

I thought the upturned V pole was just to take the telegraph lines round a corner - you'd need a stronger one to prevent a single post from being dragged inwards on a curve.

Having said that, there's more than one way to strengthen a "corner post", so maybe there's a regional clue to be had here. If only we had a telegraph pole spotter's website. Oh wait, http://www.telegraphpole.org/ and http://teleramics.com

There's an upturned V one if you scroll down here http://teleramics.com/main/contributers2006.html

which is in Scotland- they say

The A frame style of Telegraph poles is / was quite commonly used in Scotland, usually where a pole route took a minor change of direction.

 

while http://teleramics.com/main/contributers2007.html has a pic of one at Melton Mowbray station.

I give up.

[trisonic]

We'll probably never know where this is......................that's not necessarily a bad thing if you think about it.

 

 

Best, Pete.

[Kenton]

We'll probably never know where this is......................that's not necessarily a bad thing if you think about it.

 

 

Best, Pete.

A bit like an itch you can't scratch ?

It will probably just fade away with time but its damn annoying at the moment.

[trisonic]

A bit like an itch you can't scratch ?

It will probably just fade away with time but its damn annoying at the moment.

 

No wrong simile, I think. more like: we don't know everything on here.

There's something we're looking at the wrong way, a bit more lateral thinking is in order. I can't quite put my finger on it though, right now,

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[Rail-Online]

Duncan,

 

Just a thought -is it definately the right way around? I can't see anything that definately says it is "corrrect way round". Can you do a mirror image just to see if it rings a bell the opposite way around?

 

I am sure I have seen those buffer stops somewhere, The milepost (if that's what it is) does not look NER to me.

 

The Scots pines on the distant horizon definately make it look bleak and exposed.

 

Cheers Tony

[eastwestdivide]

Will this do?

 

[Irishswissernie]

I'm thinking its somewhere either one of the Strathmore branch lines or the rural areas of Fife but can't place it - yet.

 

Ernie

[Nick Holliday]

I think it is Wilsontown, in Lanark. http://www.forth.themutual.net/pics/Wilsontown%20Station.jpg shows it (very blurred) before the line was singled, and http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=6663 is a better view taken much later, but in the opposite direction. Both show the V telegraph pole and hte chimney on the station building. I, at least, am convinced.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I think it is Wilsontown, in Lanark. http://www.forth.themutual.net/pics/Wilsontown%20Station.jpg shows it (very blurred) before the line was singled, and http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=6663 is a better view taken much later, but in the opposite direction. Both show the V telegraph pole and hte chimney on the station building. I, at least, am convinced.

 

Don't think so Nick; the style of platform looks wrong for a start.

[Anglian]

I had a look on google earth to see where the station was in Wilsontown – the goods yard area looks possible but not sure about the farm. Of course a lot can change. I'm dying to know where it is now…

[Jamie]

I think it is Wilsontown, in Lanark. http://www.forth.themutual.net/pics/Wilsontown%20Station.jpg shows it (very blurred) before the line was singled, and http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=6663 is a better view taken much later, but in the opposite direction. Both show the V telegraph pole and hte chimney on the station building. I, at least, am convinced.

 

I'm not sure about that precise example, but could agree that it *might* be Caley after all. Railbrit has a reasonable pic of Williamwood on the Caley's Lanarkshire and Ayrshire which looks similar - to an extent. I could believe the end window is suitably caley, but haven't found a shot of true Caley bufferstops to compare those.

[Flood]

There's a better photo of that first picture of Wilsontown at http://www.hughadamson.com/Photos/Wilsontown_Lanarkshire/44%20Wilsontown%20Train%20Station%20c1920s.jpg. The building may have been rebuilt over time or it may be Wilsontown is not the exact location. The signal box, small hut, sidings and small hedge by the trees all fit though.

 

Edit: Try coordinates 295080, 654790 in Old-Maps.co.uk, 1941 Lanarkshire 1:2500. The buildings in the background and the trees all seem to line up well.

[petethemole]

I don't think it's Wilsonstown for two reasons. First, the station building in the postcard of Wilsontown is different in several respects from the mystery station, and second, Google Streetview shows the terrain there to be rather flat, particularly in the direction that the possible farm would be. However the low hedge opposite may be a feature typical of small stations of the Caley?

Pete

[PhilJ W]

The Wilsontown station building is completely different for several reasons, the pitch of the roof, the position of the chimney and the length of the platform between the ramp and the station building.

[Nick Holliday]

I am glad that Flood agrees with me re Wilsontown. If you print the two photos we now have, taken from roughly the same point, there are so many points of correlation. The trees on the left, the hedge alongside the track, the curve of the platform, the profile of the hill in the background, the trees on the horizon, the signal box at the end of the platform, the small hut between the box and the main building, the three telegraph poles, including my "V" pole in the centre and the brick-built chimney stack. Enough evidence to satisfy a jury, I would have thought. Looking at the station building itself, it is clear that it has been modified. The pitch of the roof has been reduced, and it has been extended at this end. If you look closely you can see a clock (possibly a circular window) between the last pair of windows on the earlier view, whilst in the later view there is an additional bay, enveloping the chimney stack, although the clock has been lowered to suit the new roof line.

In addition, as Flood says, the 1922 map on old-maps shows the houses (part of the Wilsontown Estate) in the background as being in exactly the right place. The yard has two sidings, albeit up to the 1940's at least there was a large goods shed, which has been demolished by the time of the mystery view, and the siding probably extended, hence, perhaps the unusual bufferstops. I don't know what Google Streetview is showing, but the OS maps show quite a difference in levels across the area, the houses being some 30 feet higher than the goods yard, and the railway actually crosses the road, just behind the photographer, by an overbridge.

[Adam]

I am glad that Flood agrees with me re Wilsontown. If you print the two photos we now have, taken from roughly the same point, there are so many points of correlation. The trees on the left, the hedge alongside the track, the curve of the platform, the profile of the hill in the background, the trees on the horizon, the signal box at the end of the platform, the small hut between the box and the main building, the three telegraph poles, including my "V" pole in the centre and the brick-built chimney stack. Enough evidence to satisfy a jury, I would have thought. Looking at the station building itself, it is clear that it has been modified. The pitch of the roof has been reduced, and it has been extended at this end. If you look closely you can see a clock (possibly a circular window) between the last pair of windows on the earlier view, whilst in the later view there is an additional bay, enveloping the chimney stack, although the clock has been lowered to suit the new roof line.

In addition, as Flood says, the 1922 map on old-maps shows the houses (part of the Wilsontown Estate) in the background as being in exactly the right place. The yard has two sidings, albeit up to the 1940's at least there was a large goods shed, which has been demolished by the time of the mystery view, and the siding probably extended, hence, perhaps the unusual bufferstops. I don't know what Google Streetview is showing, but the OS maps show quite a difference in levels across the area, the houses being some 30 feet higher than the goods yard, and the railway actually crosses the road, just behind the photographer, by an overbridge.

 

While I think you're probably correct Nick, there is no way that the platform building is the same structure: somewhere along the line the wooden elements have been totally rebuilt/replaced, rather than altered and reclad - note the vertical boarding in the earlier photo and the horizontal clapboarding with very different windows and rather more length in the later shot. Presumably, though the brick chimney was retained because it was convenient to do so. The scale of the rebuilding seems rather surprising however.

 

Adam

[Guest stuartp]

Having previously very confidently identified part of Manchester Victoria as Leeds, all I'll say is that a trawl through G C O'Hara's "Scottish Urban and Rural Branchlines" revealed no similar buffer stops, nor did the same author's "Scottish Region Colour Album". I think the buffer stops are key to pinning down the company, and I'm absolutely sure someone on here has recently posted a pic of similar ones either extant or preserved somewhere. "NER or MS&L heavy duty" is niggling away at the back of my mind but no combination of those terms in the seach box throws up anything useful. I wish I could say with confidence that those are not Caley buffers but I don't have time to trawl through all my 'True Lines' at the moment looking for proof.

 

If it's Wilsontown where's the signalbox ? It's there on the very early pic (Nick's first link and Flood's link) and on the 1960's pic (Nick's second link) but not on the OP's pic which to me seems to date from between the two. There's something on the far end of the platform but it doesn't look like a Caley box, even one with the roof missing.

[Kenton]

So the corrugated iron structure in the supposedly later "mystery" photo suddenly becomes a signal box that would have preceded it.

So the "farm" disappears and reappears later.

So the curve in the platform becomes sharper

So the terrain changes - just look on a map the hill has not only been airbrushed in

... and those windows again! the station building is extended and improved, using a design I still haven't seen used on a Caley station.

 

Wilsontown - I'm far from convinced - in fact I'm still not convinced it is even Scottish.

[Flood]

How about this photo from ebay? http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=436513&ppid=1122&image=341966855&images=341966855&formats=0&format=0

[trisonic]

How about this photo from ebay? http://www.auctiva.c...mats=0&format=0

 

 

Certainly looks right. Hopefully it can now fade back into deserved obscurity!

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

[Shadow]

How about this photo from ebay? http://www.auctiva.c...mats=0&format=0

 

 

And this one as well. Wilsontown

[geoffers]

Can't check any books as I am away from home but it is reminiscent of the Bridport Branch - Toller maybe?

[pH]

I think the picture in the OP is reversed, the picture in post#58 is the right way round, and that the location is Wilsontown.

 

There is an article in ‘Steam Days’ for August 2002 on Caley branches around Carstairs (it’s part one of a two-parter). The Wilsontown branch is one of those covered. There is a clearer print of this picture, and the caption says that the station building in the picture was later replaced by a more modern structure, so it's not likely to be the one in the picture in the OP. There are also two pictures taken at Wilsontown station on the last day of passenger service, 8 September 1951. If the picture in post#58 shows the west end of the station, these two pictures are taken from the east end. One shows a line going off to the right (i.e. to the north), which shows up going to the left in the picture in post#58. If you look on the 1941 OS map, there is a line shown going off to the north, just east of Wilsontown station, which fits. (The other picture shows the east end of the station building, which is brick, not wooden siding.)

 

The crane, the pole with the brace, the station chimney and the shed on the end of the platformin the Ebay picture all agree with the picture in post#58.

 

The position of the bufferstop, the pole with the brace and station chimney here also agree with the picture in post#58. It’s a real pity that the photographer didn’t include a bit more of the view to the left – possibly containing that really unusual bufferstop?

 

One big problem is that the signalbox doesn’t show up in the picture in post#58. However, I wonder if the structure that does show in the correct position in the photo is actually the box in a further state of demolition than is shown in the Ebay picture.

 

As for the non-railway buildings, Google Street shows here what might be the smaller building (immediately behind the crane in the picture in post#58), at a slightly lower level than the station. You can’t go any further down Wilsontown Road in Google Street, but the larger building does not show in the aerial view.

 

So, apart from the signalbox and the larger farm building (and there are possible signs in Google Maps aerial view that there once was something in the correct position for that) I think everything in the ‘reversed’ view in post#58 can be accounted for and that the picture is of Wilsontown station from the west end.