When is it rude, lazy or selfish to ask for help on RMweb?

[buffalo]

...I doubt if a quick search query would link them...

Ah, but did you try? I just put "rust slaters wheels" in the search box and not only did it return the two currently active topics, but several others on the same subject as well as a few links to similar discussions buried deep in other topics. Also, as both the topics you mention are currently active, they appear in the first couple of pages of VNC.

...We should always view each request individually but if in possession of the required information a polite referral may serve to answer the questioner.

I agree, but there are those who, when a link to another topic is provided, still appear to want direct answers to their question. I've seen a number of cases where the first reply provides a link to an identical topic. This is then followed by a few direct answers, often from folk who have clearly not read the other topic(s) and the OP thanks these posters but pointedly ignores the one who provided a link to other relevant topics.

 

Nick

[Kenton]

I think that depends on the question asked. For example, if someone posts 'what tool to use for this job' and 9 people answer 'x' and 1 person answers 'y', then it can be assumed that 'x' is probably the best tool to used.

 

Not always. It could be that the 9 people answering 'x' just haven't come across 'y' or simply don't know how to use 'y' effectively. For an example how many of us use a glass fibre brush and hate all those sticky-in-finger glass fibre shards when we could be using bits of Garryflex?

 

 

Some questions appear selfish but they are not really as who knows how many silent members are being helped by the answers who never found the nerve or inclination to ask the same question.

 

Sometime I do wish some members would simply try to Google their question (or obvious search terms before asking) - it is possibly one of the most irritating things on here to see the same question over and over. I would much prefer to see a thread reopened with a slight deviation of subject. To me that is rude on all those who have replied to the original topic - you want them to repeat what they have said just for your topic? - it is also selfish as it ignores the original topic poster suggesting that you are more important or your need for a personal answer to the same question is somehow above the rest, ... and of course it is lazy. But don't let that stop you. Someone else will do a simple Google search and post the results, or remember the answer they researched for someone else and posted only last week then will copy it especially for you.

 

and don't forget to post a thank you or at least click the "like" button to acknowledge you came back to look at the topic for an answer. Sometimes I think the OP of some topics doesn't check back.

[beast66606]

I've seen a number of cases where the first reply provides a link to an identical topic. This is then followed by a few direct answers, often from folk who have clearly not read the other topic(s) and the OP thanks these posters but pointedly ignores the one who provided a link to other relevant topics.

 

It's called invi ib e i k

[ThaneofFife]

I think that depends on the question asked. For example, if someone posts 'what tool to use for this job' and 9 people answer 'x' and 1 person answers 'y', then it can be assumed that 'x' is probably the best tool to used.

 

OK. I thought this was fairly clear but maybe itll help to elaborate further and clear it up here and now. Regardless of the question, how long it is, how much research the OP has or has not put in or how easy it is to answer or whatever (try and forget the nuances of what questions we can be faced with for a moment) the sticking point is where half a dozen people self congratulate themselves by simply agreeing with the previous poster which adds no meat to the bone whatsoever.

 

To spell it out with an example;-

 

A asks what decoder he should use in his new loco.

B suggests a 3 function Bachmann decoder (for arguments sake)

C comes along and adds nothing by saying "I was thinking exactly the same as B and can indeed recommend the 3 function from Bachmann.

Maybe youll get D, E and F all trot along behind and say the same thing. Its pointless and like I said those sorts of replies to questions just bloat the threads up UNLESS those people bring something else to the table and not just C D E and F patting themselves on the back.

 

Peoples answers can sometimes be just as bad as some peoples questions.

[AngryMeerkat]

 

 

OK. I thought this was fairly clear but maybe itll help to elaborate further and clear it up here and now. Regardless of the question, how long it is, how much research the OP has or has not put in or how easy it is to answer or whatever (try and forget the nuances of what questions we can be faced with for a moment) the sticking point is where half a dozen people self congratulate themselves by simply agreeing with the previous poster which adds no meat to the bone whatsoever.

 

To spell it out with an example;-

 

A asks what decoder he should use in his new loco.

B suggests a 3 function Bachmann decoder (for arguments sake)

C comes along and adds nothing by saying "I was thinking exactly the same as B and can indeed recommend the 3 function from Bachmann.

Maybe youll get D, E and F all trot along behind and say the same thing. Its pointless and like I said those sorts of replies to questions just bloat the threads up UNLESS those people bring something else to the table and not just C D E and F patting themselves on the back.

 

Peoples answers can sometimes be just as bad as some peoples questions.

 

I see your point perfectly, but allow me to throw a different light on the same scenario .....

 

I see a thread like that, and decide to reply as nobody else has. I know little about decoders but the HornmannV3 works in 4 of my locos and does just about what I want, so I reply saying I use it and it works. If nobody else replied the OP could go and spend £100 on these decoders that might not be fit for HIS purpose, based solely on the fact 1 numpty replied on here.

 

If however 4 people agree with me, the OP may feel more certain that he is making the right choice based on the experiences of a few people instead of just one.

 

It would be nice if these people also gave some reasoning to their agreement, but sometimes just the agreement is enough.

 

Mark

[Kenton]

A asks what decoder he should use in his new loco.

B suggests a 3 function Bachmann decoder (for arguments sake)

C comes along and adds nothing by saying "I was thinking exactly the same as B and can indeed recommend the 3 function from Bachmann.

Maybe youll get D, E and F all trot along behind and say the same thing. Its pointless and like I said those sorts of replies to questions just bloat the threads up UNLESS those people bring something else to the table and not just C D E and F patting themselves on the back.

 

Peoples answers can sometimes be just as bad as some peoples questions.

 

But that just supports Halwit's point that more than one member thinks Backmann (in this case) is the right one. That is good information as the reply from only one member is pretty meaningless - it could actually not be the consensus - just a quick answer by one member who knows no better answer or with limited experience. Not incorrect - just inconclusive. Though perha[s a "I agree" click button would be more useful here as the "Like" button is used to thank the poster"

 

I also think that there is no "bad" answer - the person posting the answer obviously doesn't think his answer is "bad" just that it might be incorrect (in which case the the interactive nature of the forum can let both the OP and the poster of an incorrect answer learn from the discussion. I have admitted a few mistakes and learned a lot from them on some topics. Then there is the fact that opinions may differ, simply no answer is an absolute right or wrong, just a different answer to the same from different viewpoints. The recent "future of kit building" topic being a perfect example of that.

[fender]

I have to admit I am very very cautious about asking questions on here. I've asked a few, and gotten many helpful replies, but I feel like I need to both exhaust all avenues of investigation I have at my disposal and then list what research I have done so far before posting.

 

I don't know what it is about this hobby. Every other forum I'm on, for different subjects, people are nowhere near as quick to say "google it" or complain about the type of questions that crop up. Maybe it's because it is so research-heavy, and maybe it is that some railway modellers grew up doing all their research off their own back, when there was no internet, and are now loathe to give up information as they feel asking a question on a forum is too easy, I don't know.

 

I relate forums to real life conversations. If I met someone in real life and asked them a specific question about the railways, I wouldn't expect them to tell me to "do a search".

 

If people ask questions which require subjective answers, then is it any wonder that lots of people chime in with their subjective responses? This thread, for example, is based on a totally legitimate question which requires subjective responses, so there will be much duplication.

 

What I really don't get is this apparent requirement to read everything. I skim through the forums and I skim through threads. If I find something interesting then I read it more closely, and if I decide to respond I do so even more. 99% of forums is just waffle. Just ignore what you don't like. Simple.

[Norm81]

I have to admit I am very very cautious about asking questions on here.

You and me both then, as I wanted to ask some questions in the UK Prototype Questions section, so I went and read all (now upto 132!) the thread titles to ensure I wasn't repeating one that had already been asked.

 

There's a few questions in my head that I haven't asked on here yet through fear of being chastised and derided for not doing "enough" research before asking.

[Talltim]

What I find really annoying is when I ask a question and people give good answers so I go googling based on my newly discovered search terms, only to find I asked the same question (not necassarily here) a few years previously and had completely forgotten. It's happened at least twice to me, it's all a bit worrying...

[beast66606]

There's a few questions in my head that I haven't asked on here yet through fear of being chastised and derided for not doing "enough" research before asking.

 

You should never feel that, but equally you should not take too much offence if someone points you to an existing thread.

[Kenton]

There's a few questions in my head that I haven't asked on here yet through fear of being chastised and derided for not doing "enough" research before asking.

 

Ask away. Sometimes holding it back can be unhealthy As far as I'm concerned the only research required is a Google search of RMWeb to make sure the same question has not already been answered. Any other research is asking too much in this internet age as not everyone has space for moth eaten copies of out of print books, or for photographic memories of everything that is known about everything. Simple is best though, then simples like me stand a chance of answering. Seriously, we can all learn a lot by new, and to the point questions.

[Arthur]

You should never feel that, but equally you should not take too much offence if someone points you to an existing thread.

 

True, but the way such pointing is done is often rude and condescending and with a tone of censure. It merely requires something along the lines of 'Hi, have you seen these threads here?, come back if you cannot find your answer.' Often, it's far less polite.

[beast66606]

True, but the way such pointing is done is often rude and condescending and with a tone of censure. It merely requires something along the lines of 'Hi, have you seen these threads here?, come back if you cannot find your answer.' Often, it's far less polite.

 

Then get in first with a polite answer and all the references - then everyone is happy.

[Arthur]

What do you mean by that?

[jcm@gwr]

OK. I thought this was fairly clear but maybe itll help to elaborate further and clear it up here and now. Regardless of the question, how long it is, how much research the OP has or has not put in or how easy it is to answer or whatever (try and forget the nuances of what questions we can be faced with for a moment) the sticking point is where half a dozen people self congratulate themselves by simply agreeing with the previous poster which adds no meat to the bone whatsoever.

 

To spell it out with an example;-

 

A asks what decoder he should use in his new loco.

B suggests a 3 function Bachmann decoder (for arguments sake)

C comes along and adds nothing by saying "I was thinking exactly the same as B and can indeed recommend the 3 function from Bachmann.

Maybe youll get D, E and F all trot along behind and say the same thing. Its pointless and like I said those sorts of replies to questions just bloat the threads up UNLESS those people bring something else to the table and not just C D E and F patting themselves on the back.

 

Peoples answers can sometimes be just as bad as some peoples questions.

The other point to be aware of, is, quite often, that the posting times are only a minute apart.

This tells me that there wasn't an intent to just repeat the same info, but that the posters were

all at the keyboard at the same time! [trying to help].

They might not have done that if they had realised some-one else was doing the same thing.

Just my opinion of course, Jeff

[beast66606]

I mean if you're not happy that others spend the time and effort to post the links for the OP and perhaps are a bit "short" (given that a search by the OP may have found the links), then you are free to answer the same questions and give a polite answer if you so choose. People give short answers for all the reasons mentioned above, I'm not sure we should worry too much about a slight impatience if they are actually helping, if they just said "Look for yourself" with no further information, then I would consider that rude.

[Oldddudders]

Moving swiftly on, I mentioned earlier that I was clearly out of step with RMwebber tastes in topics. One recent question asked what were the chances of a retooled Bleep X^%G? Now, to my mind, that question needs to be posed to Bleep - it's their product - not on a forum. Out of step? You bet I am - the thread now runs to 126 responses in 6 pages!

[Arthur]

Then get in first with a polite answer and all the references - then everyone is happy.

 

So is that an example of a polite answer? Did my original comment, which essentially supported your point, warrant that? I merely observed that if members see impatient answers to questions we shouldn't be surprised if they then become a bit reluctant to ask.

 

I'll stand by my own reputation and record of supplying information to requests where I have the relevant specialist knowledge. Always given willingly and without impatience.

[fender]

one thing I've noticed about forums is that the first few replies set the tone for the rest of the thread.

 

if someone starts a topic asking, "which of the big four ran the Castle loco?"

 

then if the first response is "GWR mate "

the second might be, "yep, GWR, but don't forget they did trials in other regions", "ah yes, I had forgotten that" etc etc

 

and the thread goes on from there, all nice, positive and helpful.

 

on the other hand, if the first response is, "jeez, seriously? do a search! "

then the second, and subsequent, will be along the lines of, "internet age ", "we've seen it all now!" etc etc

 

then the thread will devolve further.

 

it's like the battle to see which type of responder will answer first.

 

(this is just an observation btw)

[grahame]

 

So is that an example of a polite answer? Did my original comment, which essentially supported your point, warrant that? I merely observed that if members see impatient answers to questions we shouldn't be surprised if they then become a bit reluctant to ask.

 

 

But, on the other hand is it an example of a rude one? I'd say it's probably not the best phrased one - not the worst and not the best, but that's what you get on forums; a range of answers and responses all couched in different terms and language.

 

I guess a lot of it is to do with peoples sensitivity to replies and their reaction to them. Sometimes answers are brief and point to other threads to save the bother of typing it all out again and adding lots of polite nuances. They aren't necessarily being impolite, impatient or aggressive - just trying to quickly and directly answer the question. I very much doubt that anyone is deliberately trying to be unpleasant on this forum.

 

It's how people receive those answers that seems to be the issue for some. Perhaps a little more latitude and understanding both ways would help.

 

G.

[Donw]

There is no need for rudeness in any answer. I don't believe that someone should have to do a google search to see if there as been a related topic as they may no know how to phrase it, but a simple glance at the first page or two of questions will often show a related topic or even the same question.

There is also the Question such as "I know nothing about model railways or big ones either please tell me all I need to know" noone can really answer that and you feel that if they had looked around the site probably layout topics could be a good start they would then begin to have real questions.

Don

[grahame]

 

I don't believe that someone should have to do a google search to see if there as been a related topic as they may no know how to phrase it,

 

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that people must or "should have to do a google search" but it is an easy and obvious start especially if you are on-line (which if posting on a forum you presumably are). And I'm not aware that there is any special way to phrase google searches - just typing in the subject usually brings up a list of references/sites. It's probably good practice and reasonable consideration to have at least done that.

 

The other obvious check is on the forum for related threads and there is a special search facility for that.

 

G.

[Guest dilbert]

An opportune moment to address a couple of points that have been raised and pose a couple of questions in return :

 

I have to admit I am very very cautious about asking questions on here... but I feel like I need to both exhaust all avenues of investigation I have at my disposal and then list what research I have done so far before posting.

 

Looking at such continental cities such as Paris or Madrid, avenues are important throughfares consisting of multiple lanes for traffic and in many instances accomodate heavy volumes of two-way traffic. Is it really that difficult or onerous to provide a synopsis of what research you have done? For those who are willing to go the extra mile, at least you potentially remove effort that is not required.

 

I don't know what it is about this hobby. Every other forum I'm on, for different subjects, people are nowhere near as quick to say "google it" or complain about the type of questions that crop up. Maybe it's because it is so research-heavy, and maybe it is that some railway modellers grew up doing all their research off their own back, when there was no internet, and are now loathe to give up information as they feel asking a question on a forum is too easy, I don't know.

 

Most requests which are research heavy tend to be prototype related. If you can't find what you're looking for on the Internet, then there is a good chance that answers can be found in one or more reference books, personal notes etc... The 'loathe to give up information' is not necessarily an accurate reflection, given that once someone has put the time and effort into researching a particular request (that can involve different sources of information), and you don't hear anything back, then wouldn't you have one of those WTF moments?

 

I skim through the forums and I skim through threads. If I find something interesting then I read it more closely, and if I decide to respond I do so even more.... Just ignore what you don't like.

 

So what you're implying is that your criterion/criteria for responding are not the same as others... each unto his own... dilbert

[Norm81]

I have to admit I am very very cautious about asking questions on here. I've asked a few, and gotten many helpful replies, but I feel like I need to both exhaust all avenues of investigation I have at my disposal and then list what research I have done so far before posting.

Looking at such continental cities such as Paris or Madrid, avenues are important throughfares consisting of multiple lanes for traffic and in many instances accomodate heavy volumes of two-way traffic.

In my opinion the condescending nature of your reply to fender here is most unneccessary and uncalled-for. However it perfectly illustrates the type of reply that has no doubt given rise to us being cautious in asking questions.

[westerner]

I probably have questions that with some financial expenditure could have been researched by me (buing books that i will only use the once), however I have always searched elsewhere first and when I have used RMWeb I have always had helpful replies.

 

I supose what has ereked me at times are questions about Wencombe that were already answered a couple of pages back in the thread. Even then I do try and give a civil reply.

 

As one who was always rather shy of asking questions, I have discovered that the silliest thing is NOT to ask a question. What may seem obvious to most is obviously not to the questioner.