When is it rude, lazy or selfish to ask for help on RMweb?

[halfwit]

Everything I would have said has already been said, so I don't need to have my say (radical new concept there for RMWeb... )

 

 

 

Fair point, the only aspect to this is the introduction of the 'thank you' button which it could be argued has taken the place of the 'Thanks for the answers' post.

 

Tricky one isn't it - we introduced the thank you button as a way of removing the chaff of 'I agree' and 'Thank you' posts from threads, but a side effect is that often you're not sure if the OP is the one clicking the button or not - it could simply be the other respondees. Do we press the button or post 'thank you'? Hmmm.

 

Personally I always post a 'thank you and use the 'thank you' button when people answer my questions, because I do appreciate any help given.

I see nothing wrong with the op posting a thank you, others that find the replies usefull could just stick to using the button? (I use the button in this way myself).

[Ian J.]

Tricky one isn't it - we introduced the thank you button as a way of removing the chaff of 'I agree' and 'Thank you' posts from threads, but a side effect is that often you're not sure if the OP is the one clicking the button or not - it could simply be the other respondees. Do we press the button or post 'thank you'? Hmmm.

I think the intention of the thank you button is to help reduce 'me too' chaff. If the OP wants to say thank you for replies then that would be best done as an actual thank you reply. Anyone else who has also found the answers useful should use the thank you button.

[br2975]

Definately, I recall asking once on a yahoogroup whether there was any "standard" sizes for US grade crossing markings and a grumpy poster told me to go and measure my local one, Red Cow crossing doesn't look the same though.

 

I use 'yahoogroups' in an effort to assist my spotting, photting and recording of the South Wales railscene.

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Perhaps my opinions are compounded by my age, but I find some posters on the 'yahoogroups' forums I use to be obtuse, to the point of rude.

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This appears to me to be a 'spin off' of todays 'yoof culture' and 'text mentality'.

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One poster (I cannot define him as a 'contributor' !) living locally continually asks repetitive questions in relation to freight services and their power.

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There are only a limited number of freight trains in South Wales each a day, most are timetabled, the overwhelming majority are hauled by DB(s) Cl.66s with one regular Cl.60/Cl.59 working to/from Robeston.

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The Freightliner and DRS interlopers workings can be easily 'guesstimated'

 

Initially I would reply, if I knew the answer to his questions, but when the poster continued with repetitive demands he was 'advised' to purchase the latest edition of 'Freightmaster'. However, the 'poster' advised me, quite bluntly, that he was of a limited budget and could not afford to purchase a copy of "Freightmaster" ....... his reply was sent via his 'Blackberry' !

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I then suggested he read through previous posts on the 'yahoogroup' and produce his own 'spreadsheet' from which he could gain an idea of workings, their power antimes/dates of operation................ now I don't bother.

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As for this Forum, one can appreciate that contributors live across the globe, their spheres of interest vary as does their knowledge and modelling ability.

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To this end I see no problem assisting someone with a genuine enquiry, if I can.

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But I must say, after 30yrs 'serving the public' - an occasional 'thank you' does go a long way.

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Brian R

[Mod6]

Fair point, the only aspect to this is the introduction of the 'thank you' button which it could be argued has taken the place of the 'Thanks for the answers' post.

 

Tricky one isn't it - we introduced the thank you button as a way of removing the chaff of 'I agree' and 'Thank you' posts from threads, but a side effect is that often you're not sure if the OP is the one clicking the button or not - it could simply be the other respondees. Do we press the button or post 'thank you'? Hmmm.

 

I think the answer to this dilemma would normally be clear from the context of the Q and A posts. If it's just short and snappy the button is fine, if it's more involved then I would hope there would be a more 'value added' reply - which could also be a start of a discussion or a follow-up question.

 

The main points have already been covered though - in general if you ask politely and explain if appropriate why you have not been able to find the answer by other means then you are much more likely to get a postive response.

[Baby Deltic]

I always say 'those who ask don't get, and those who don't ask, don't want'.

[definate maybe]

From my point of view I prefer it if people ask. YES, what they are asking may be easy to find on the internet somewhere but here it gives you the chance to interact and also may develop the thread more. Whats better doing solo research or engaging in a bit of banter with like minded people?

I think its nice that whenever you are at a model exhibition or event than you get such a nice diversity of people. Old, young, disabled, mad! are all present and I like to think its because we accept one and all. Nobody is discarded because their face doesnt fit and this website has the same acceptance

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Anyway, there are always more answers than questions.

 

It's always good to get a "thank you", especially if the person asking it expands on or shows us what they've done with the answer.

[trisonic]

This has turned into an interesting thread.

 

Ultimately this is a Forum: "a place, a medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged" it could also be a "Court or Tribunal"! Yet you can choose to reply and give information or not - there's no enforcement (that I'm aware of).

 

Best, Pete.

[2ManySpams]

Interesting discussion point Expat!

 

And I don't think anyone would mind for one minute helping you out with an enquiry, I'm sure you're also the sort to pass that information on if anyone asked you at a future time, here or elsewhere.

 

They say there's no such thing as a daft question; but I sure as hell have seen some dumb people asking questions. To try and illustrate the point imagine you're walking into town, a car pulls up alongside and asks the directions to Church Street; you tell the driver. Ten minutes later the same driver pulls up and asks "Can you tell me the way to Lower Lane?", it may have been a little better if preceded by "I'm terribly sorry to bother you again but...", you give him a short but correct answer and shake your head as he drives off again.

 

Two minutes pass by and the same car and same driver stop you again, "Can you tell me the way to Upper Way mate?". Now any rational person would probably start to get to the edge of patience at this time.

 

"I thought you wanted to go to Lower Lane when you asked me two minutes ago?"

"Yeah, well I changed my mind"

"Isn't that an A to Z on your dashboard?"

"Yeah but I thought it would be quicker to ask"

 

Would you give him directions the next time he stops to ask?

 

Most definitely when we see someone do something with the information or pass it on.

 

Nail hit firmly on the head Andy.

 

There's someone i used to provide quite comprehensive responses to on various issues. But then I realised they had the same material as me but couldn't be bothered to do what i'd just done. Also same person would flit about like a butterfly with ideas leaving a trail of other peoples hard research in there wake. Suffice to say i now ignore this members requests.

[peach james]

I think a lot has to do with how the question is asked- I've asked a few very specific DCC/RR&Co questions, where my depth of knowledge runs out. On the other hand, I think I've helped other people with issues too- and when you get to a very specific technical question, then the number of people who have the answer decreases.

 

I appreciate when people answer questions- like the current one on brass coaches. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and seeing how a "professional" does it can provide inspiration...

 

It's a give & take thing- if you are willing to wait for a answer, then forums can usually provide good info. It all needs to be used with common sense, but, hey, that's life.

 

James

[coachmann]

I have often referred people to books, but I was reminded recently that some of the books were published donkeys years ago and have to be searched for nowadays. I hadn't considered that.

 

But I usually refer to books was because of the state of information on the web....Garbage in.....garbage out. Some info might have been put there by scholars, but equally some info might have been put there by clubroom graduates who have simply repeated something that was incorrect in the first place.

 

I'll give two examples of garbage.....The South Devon Railway refers to its beautiful GWR brake third No.1645 as a 'toplight' coach. This is repeated elsewhere on websites. It is nothing of the sort. Lights are windows and top lights are top windows, often but not always above main windows. Are there any on 1645? No. It is in fact 'Sunshine' stock, coaches that were built in the later 1930s with large windows that almost reached the gutter.

 

Garbage too is the painting of passenger parcels vans in the 1930s gave rise to the reference 'Brown' Vehicles! Yep, its on the web.

[br-nse-fan]

Just my two cents...

 

Being across the pond, I to have been in the position of having to ask 'basic' questions.

Just figured this is as good as any to offer up my thanks to all those who have answered my questions thus far!

 

 

[7013]

I do not think it is rude,lazy or selfish to ask questions or ask for help, obviously like many I do try to find out info first, however that said there are so many people who can answer specific questions that google or wiki wotsit cannot answer. Those people who do not want to help should not bother posting. I ask questions, ask for opinions and ask for help. I consider this site one of the best sites to get information, yes explore the site, look around other sources and then ask your question.

If we reach a situation whereby we are pilloried for asking even basic questions then it will be time to stop using this site. I for one will always answer an enquiry if I can help, this is a hobby not a secret society for goodness sake, it is churclish attitudes like "Go and look it up yourself you will feel better for it" do not serve the hobby at all, and is one of the quickest ways to drive newcomers away.

[Kris]

I have often referred people to books, but I was reminded recently that some of the books were published donkeys years ago and have to be searched for nowadays. I hadn't considered that.

 

But I usually refer to books was because of the state of information on the web....Garbage in.....garbage out. Some info might have been put there by scholars, but equally some info might have been put there by clubroom graduates who have simply repeated something that was incorrect in the first place.

 

I'll give two examples of garbage.....The South Devon Railway refers to its beautiful GWR brake third No.1645 as a 'toplight' coach. This is repeated elsewhere on websites. It is nothing of the sort. Lights are windows and top lights are top windows, often but not always above main windows. Are there any on 1645? No. It is in fact 'Sunshine' stock, coaches that were built in the later 1930s with large windows that almost reached the gutter.

 

Garbage too is the painting of passenger parcels vans in the 1930s gave rise to the reference 'Brown' Vehicles! Yep, its on the web.

 

I quite agree about rubbish on the web, however lets not forget that garbage can also be found in books, maybe not to the same extent (due to the cost of publishing?) but it is there all the same. Getting information from more than one source is important, obviously making sure that the sources have not just copied from each other to start with

 

 

 

[96701]

I do appreciate people asking questions, largely because I learn something from the responses. I'm sitting in the same room as some locos on some track on some baseboards on some trestles and connected to a DCC system.

 

None of this would exist if I hadn't read hints, tips, and answers to questions on this forum.

 

Don't forget us 'answer thieves' when it comes to gathering information.

 

Keep smiling guys, and many thanks. Yes, I'm one of those anonymous button pushers.

[coachmann]

....this is a hobby not a secret society for goodness sake, it is churclish attitudes like "Go and look it up yourself you will feel better for it" do not serve the hobby at all, and is one of the quickest ways to drive newcomers away.

No it is not a secret society and RMweb is proof of that fact. But equally one should not assume someone else is going to spend time looking through their collection of material just because someone has asked a question. A modeller might, during his or her lifetime, have acquired a lot of hard earned information that others could conceivable profit from. If that person does not wish to hand it willy nilly to someone else, that is their choice. Would you then say that person is being churlish?

Driving newcomers away? Does this really happen?

[Edwin_m]

One think that rankles with me is where people use the word "require" in their questions. I imagine it is usually just people reaching for the wrong word, but it does seem to suggest a demand rather than a polite question. Better choices would be "request", "need", "would like" etc.

[Mod6]

I do not think it is rude,lazy or selfish to ask questions or ask for help, obviously like many I do try to find out info first, however that said there are so many people who can answer specific questions that google or wiki wotsit cannot answer. Those people who do not want to help should not bother posting. I ask questions, ask for opinions and ask for help. I consider this site one of the best sites to get information, yes explore the site, look around other sources and then ask your question.

If we reach a situation whereby we are pilloried for asking even basic questions then it will be time to stop using this site. I for one will always answer an enquiry if I can help, this is a hobby not a secret society for goodness sake, it is churclish attitudes like "Go and look it up yourself you will feel better for it" do not serve the hobby at all, and is one of the quickest ways to drive newcomers away.

 

Nobody is suggesting that anyone gets 'pilloried for asking basic questions', nor advocating 'go and look it up yourself because you will feel better'. As already said it is all a question of how the issue is approached by the member asking. Be polite, explain your circumstances and there is no reason why a positive response won't follow. However, there are many occasions where the answer to the question can be found easily without recourse to asking on here, and if anyone habitually defaults to 'I can't be bothered to spend any time on trying to find out for myself, I'll just post a question on RMWeb' as a first resort then members' willingness and patience to assist may well decline.

[7013]

With due respect I did mention in my posting explore the site,look around at other sources. My point which I did not make clear was that RMweb Is one of the best sources of model railway information, yes we all get fed up with some enquiries and how they are worded, but I still maintain that a tolerant attitude and active encouragement on how to access other sources is the way forward. One may be able to answer a question and add..you might want to look at XY or Z for further information.

Of course having such an open site throws up a number of differen ttypes of enquiries. As with any hobby with such a diverse subject related matter there are inevitably areas where one person knows a lot more about on aspect than another be it carriage formations, a particular locomotive or a praticular railway, one common source of questions that are often repeated are those concerning DCC which many people are changing to with this subject sometimes the first point of contact is RMweb because people need pointing in the right direction, not just told 'Google it' that in itself could be classed as lazy. One aspect I find particularly irksome is when one or two posters will wander off the original subject matter, that to me is rude and selfish, much more than someone making a legiitimate enquiry. but that is another subject! Suffice to say that there is always going to be a split in opinion about asking questions, making enquiries etc.

[Dave777]

Yes, I'm one of those anonymous button pushers.

 

Yeah, me too, and in future I'll post a 'thank you' post if the answers have been extensive as that seems to be what people prefer. I do see plenty of threads in the 'Questions/Help' forum where it's obvious the OP has simply gone down the list of replies and clicked the 'thank you' button for each of them (well, I'm assuming that's what has occurred as each post has exactly +1 on it). Personally I’m happy with that form of ‘thank you’, but clearly others find the lack of a direct response rude. Fair enough.

 

I actually find a thread where I think some new info has been posted and open it up, only to find it's the OP saying 'Thanks' more annoying, but horses for courses I guess.

 

Without wishing to look like a clever dick, we may wish to add to the forum guidance given here so as to make it clear that a 'thank you' is often preferable to simply pressing the button:

 

http://www.rmweb.co....-poster-button/

 

While it doesn't specifically mention 'Thank you' posts (it mentions 'I agree' or 'I like that' posts), I confess I had perhaps taken that a bit too literally and assumed pressing the button was the preferred method of saying thanks and actively encouraged. Particularly the middle paragraph -

 

'Obviously it's good to be able to show appreciation to posts for providing information or answering a question. That is what the 'click to thank poster' button is for. Many are already using this, and we would encourage more to do so rather than posting short or even one-word replies which are superfluous and clutter the place up'.

 

I had wrongly assumed that me posting ‘Thanks for the replies’ fell into the category of a short reply that cluttered the place up! (particularly bearing in mind that people would have to re-open the thread and scroll to the bottom just to read it, something which, as mentioned, I find a bit tiresome).

 

As I said, I’m not trying to look clever or that I’m trying to catch Mod6 out – I’m just suspecting that it’s that bit of guidance that originally made me think pressing the button was considered enough and the preferred method.

[Mod5]

Dave,

 

I think that this was first introduced to stop the 'me too' type of posts that were springing up all over the place. Some members were seeing a thread and because they liked it they were just putting one word or a smilie and that also meant that you would open a thread you were watching to find that someone had just put "Great" or something as simple as that. In fact on some threads that had maybe a wonderful piece of modelling you would often get a number of these posts that added nothing to the thread at all. So a click of the + sign was better in that respect.

 

As regards whether to use the button or write the word thanks well I suppose that is an individual choice. I am 'old school' and unashamed of the fact that I still prefer conversation and will not use text messages. So I suppose this is similar in that 'I' think the written word carries more weight that a simple press of a button. As I said that is my view but what others do is their choice.

 

Sometimes you will see a poster has said I like that 'because' of the weathering, the intricate detail or whatever. In those cases the OP will not only see that members like what they have done but why. That way I believe more useful feedback is obtained that just seeing how many times a button has been pressed.

 

Neither are wrong and members should carry on with what they are comfortable with but of course the fact that you have highlighted it at all shows just how good the forum is when these matters can be discussed in an open and reasonable manner.

[7013]

I have looked everywhere, searched and highlighted all the symbols and still cannot find click to thank poster button, perhaps if it were a bit more prominent it would be used more often, perhaps alongside the Add Reply button? Anyway someone is going to point it out right under my nose so until then Thank you in anticipation.I agree with Mod 5 There are lots of ways to say thank you and sometimes it is more than just, well thankyou!

[halfwit]

I have looked everywhere, searched and highlighted all the symbols and still cannot find click to thank poster button, perhaps if it were a bit more prominenet it would be used more often, perhaps alongside the Add Reply button? Anyway someone is going to point it out right under my nose so until then Thank you in anticipation.

 

Bottom right hand corner, its the little green '+' symbol.

[7013]

Thank you Paul I have posted a thanks via the green +. 'Vote this post up' is about as clear as mud to me but now I know it is the Thank you button I will use it alongside my more log winded thanks....bit like this one really. In the unlikely event of me ever winning an Oscar I would be thanking for Britain!

[Ozexpatriate]

Thanks everyone for sharing your views - I appreciate it.

 

Thanks to all of you, with occasional help from Andy and the moderators, RMweb is generally a pretty civil place. It's hardly surprising, but clearly a little politeness and common courtesy goes a long way.