Road Vehicles in silly places

[37114]

I tell you what does make me annoyed is the fact that modern diecast cars are held together with rivets which are a real pain to drill out to put figures in and to paint the interior. I have circa 30 cars and vans to put drivers in for my Layout, and so have a rather large task in front of me.

 

Re Lorry access, the first haulage company I worked for (which sadly closed after 100 years last month) had their yard in a middle of a housing estate in Bristol, we used to get full length artics in there yet unless you knew it was down there you wouldn't dream of trying it.

[Colin]

I get fed up with scrapyard scenes featuring basically complete/weathered but undamaged car body shells - a selection of dirty & rusty supposedly derelict cars minus wheels but complete with doors, boot & bonnet lids and even headlights just doesn't look credible to me. After all, a lot of vehicles arrive at a scrapyard as write-offs, with missing or accident-damaged parts - fiddly to do in 4mm scale but worth a try perhaps.

[Penlan]

Picking up the theme on cows....

Why do so many cows that are offered to us, have their heads up in the air, most cows (and sheep) I've seen are grazing, eating grass at ground level, not looking out and about.

Similar to the horses on offer, they are nearly all walking, very few stood still, head down - eating oats from a bag or grazing......

(Should this be in the grumpy thread - Ah the escape clause, there's Horse Power involved, back to Vehicle engine power... )

[Jenny Emily]

I get fed up with scrapyard scenes featuring basically complete/weathered but undamaged car body shells - a selection of dirty & rusty supposedly derelict cars minus wheels but complete with doors, boot & bonnet lids and even headlights just doesn't look credible to me. After all, a lot of vehicles arrive at a scrapyard as write-offs, with missing or accident-damaged parts - fiddly to do in 4mm scale but worth a try perhaps.

 

With plastic kits, I find holding a soldering iron close (don't let it touch!) to the kit for a few moments applies enough heat to then use the flat of a screwdriver blade to bend and distort the kit works really well to simulate accident damage. Windscreens and glass can be fogged using liquid polystyrene cement, and bits can be cut off carefully with a sharp scalpul.

 

Metal cast kits are harder to 'damage' convinsingly. I found to my cost that squashing them a little in a vice just makes them look like a toy that some kid has given a hard time to.

[shortliner]

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for? http://www.trainboar...00/DSC02092.JPG

From this thread http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=125415

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

Here's a prototype.

 

And also numerous examples all over South Wales where lines have vanished and the more solid bits of infrastructure remain(ed). Many now seem to have been caught up with, however.

[peach james]

1: Pre war commercials certainly lasted until post war- Dad's Sentinel came "off the docks" in Liverpool ~ 1959, and had been at work at least in 1958. Not _common_, but not unheard of. I would suspect a lot went in 45-50, because of the demobing of army gear post ww2, the same as post ww1, so much went from horse to lorry. A lot depends on $$$ though for that.

 

2. Cows: I don't know my UK breeds. I do know that Holstens are not appropriate to 1950-1960 in the UK. In this case, I'd ask mum what Dick (the farmer across the road) had. It might not be quite right for where I am modeling, but I am sure it is better than me getting a current photo. (or, ask for help on here...). Same sort of thing for headlands in fields, if you have field space, then the amount of area to be filled needs quite serious concern. And with _what_ too, because localized growing conditions favour one crop vs another. It's not like the midwest over here, where you can (and do) get mile long stretches of the same thing. I remember passing what must have been 1 km or more of hay storage in Manitoba in 1999/2000. (once each way).

 

3: road surfaces: they should be at least as flat as the ballast in the railway, if not smoother. Something aproaching 150 grit sandpaper is around right for a chip sealed (macadam) road. I can ask dad what sized chips they spread- I'd think it would be 3/4" or so. (he'd know, worked for Lloyd Jones Brothers until 1978, doing it with a tarsprayer & steam roller). Scale does play a part in that.

 

(Visually, you expect some texture to a road, and remember the equal of the scale 3' viewing distance- a _smooth_ road surface doesn't look quite right, even if it might _be_ right from a texture prospective. There is the art vs science portion for today)

 

Width is important too- most roads are wide enough for 2x8' vehicles to pass one another, which means a paved surface of at least 16' (or, 64mm/2 1/2" wide). I've tried to make the roads on Long Marton appropriate width, modeling to a scale location helps at times. Bridges are also a issue- I know that I am going to have to tunnel out some more foam on one of my bridges because I got it wrong.

 

As the owner of a 4" traction engine, and husband of a experienced horse teamster, I have a LOT of respect for where you cannot get to with either of them. There are a lot of places you can get to, but a lot you cannot. I am always wary as to how to get the engine into and back out of places that have steep access- I have a driveway in mind that I won't go up, because I'd have to back down it. Same thing for horses- I'd be asking my wife about getting into places with team, and how they are likely to act. (she used to drive downtown here, not woods or farming)

 

 

James Powell

[Flying Pig]

I get fed up with scrapyard scenes featuring basically complete/weathered but undamaged car body shells - a selection of dirty & rusty supposedly derelict cars minus wheels but complete with doors, boot & bonnet lids and even headlights just doesn't look credible to me. After all, a lot of vehicles arrive at a scrapyard as write-offs, with missing or accident-damaged parts - fiddly to do in 4mm scale but worth a try perhaps.

Just a thought, but could one of those heavy diecast bodies be heated and used as a former to make the beginnings of a derelict car out of thin plastic sheet? That might provide a more easily workable basis for a scrapper.

[Worsdell forever]

Picking up the theme on cows....

Why do so many cows that are offered to us, have their heads up in the air, most cows (and sheep) I've seen are grazing, eating grass at ground level, not looking out and about.

 

That's why I posed some of mine (others are eating) doing the other thing cows are good at, watching you, the viewer. After pigs they are the most inquisitive of all animals.

 

It is a problem, the Langley ones come in packs of I think 4 with only one in each pack eating.

[Worsdell forever]

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for? http://www.trainboar...00/DSC02092.JPG

 

 

Possibly just a bit on the extreme side don't you think Jack...

[Penlan]

Possibly just a bit on the extreme side don't you think Jack...

TIC - There's no pleasing some folk......

[Oldddudders]

Possibly just a bit on the extreme side don't you think Jack...

Cars don't often get that overall rusty appearance in the scrap/fragmentation yard - they aren't there long enough. They DO acquire that appearance very rapidly if they've burnt out. All paint and other coatings burn off, leaving the metal unprotected so the rust appears almost overnight. Not far from here a tractor had clearly had a fire mishap a few months ago, and it sat looking very forlorn where it had burnt in the field, but was soon taken away - land is valuable!

[Jenny Emily]

Cars don't often get that overall rusty appearance in the scrap/fragmentation yard - they aren't there long enough. They DO acquire that appearance very rapidly if they've burnt out. All paint and other coatings burn off, leaving the metal unprotected so the rust appears almost overnight. Not far from here a tractor had clearly had a fire mishap a few months ago, and it sat looking very forlorn where it had burnt in the field, but was soon taken away - land is valuable!

 

Up until a few years ago there was a scrapyard in Farnworth full of old commercial vehciles and trailers. They had been there so long that mature trees had grown around them - they all looked very tired and rusty!

 

Modern cars certainly tend to resist rusting a lot better, even when damaged. Older vehicles from pre 1980s though were less resiliant to the tin worm, and I guess it wasn't unuaual back then for cars and vans to be scrapped because of serious rust issues than mechanical defects. Wheel arches were the worst visible signs, though rust holes seemd to be not unusual elsewhere on the bodywork of some Ford and Vauxhall offerings of my youth when they reached the end of their lives.

[iL Dottore]

Returning to unrealistic vehicles for a mo'... One thing that drives me potty (especially on many Continental layouts) is the almost obligatory fire or crash scene (often with blinking lights) Apart from being a very tired cliché the vehicles are often positioned in such a way that should give the bloke in charge (whether Fire, Police or Ambulance) a fit. Having worked in a Rescue Squad I remember that the first thing we learnt was not to put yourself or your equipment in jeopardy (and furthermore - where are all the gawkers???)

 

It does seem a pity to spend a lot of time gettng the railway right, then spoiling it by not giving the same care and attention (and research?) to the railway surroundings

 

F

 

 

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

Not always so, as witness a fire in a Welsh factory some 12 years or so ago which a paramedic aquaintance of mine attended. An appliance was brought into the building, into an area thought to have been secured, when a blast of flame shot down a ventilation duct and hit some bottles of compressed gas (oxygen, he thought) on the back - which went up a treat. Fortunately, no one was in harm's way at that point in time. Everyone makes mistakes!

 

Still, I have to agree about emergency scenes - not common in real life, so why put them on a layout? Unless you're modelling West Beirut Station on the Chemin de Fer de Lebanon, or whatever they call it.

And that Langley sandwich board fellow - why is it always "The End is Nigh?" Why not something about road safety, a tyre advert, or "First with the News"?

 

BTW - I've looked at parked vehicles before to see how their front wheels lie - most often straight. Is this a consequence of power steering? In earlier times as well I see a similar thing in photographs - could it be the large number of drivers who were either ex-army, or taught by instructors who were? My father's parking was meticulous (RAOC) as waas my brother's (taught partly by our father). Can't say the same for myself - I don't drive!

[petethemole]

Older cars such as 50s & 60s Vauxhalls, Fords etc seemed to have thicker paint. A badly rusted example might show rusty edges to wings and rotten sills but still hold its original colour over most of the body. Undernearth would be another matter. My Dad borrowed an E series Vauxhall Velox in about 1965 when his Oxford was being fixed. The body paint had faded a bit and gone matt, but every time you shut a door there would be a rustling sound and a rectangular parch of powdered rust would fall to the ground. It was only about ten years old!

[Pennine MC]

BTW - I've looked at parked vehicles before to see how their front wheels lie - most often straight. Is this a consequence of power steering? In earlier times as well I see a similar thing in photographs - could it be the large number of drivers who were either ex-army, or taught by instructors who were? My father's parking was meticulous (RAOC) as waas my brother's (taught partly by our father). Can't say the same for myself - I don't drive!

 

 

Gut feeling and a bit of thought here says that vehicles that have pulled into the kerb, been parallel parked into a roadside space or reversed into a bay have a good chance of ending up with wheels straight, due to the measured steering inputs needed to actually get into those positions tidily. OTOH, one that's been pulled into a bay forwards, or parked on open ground with no obstacles, is more likely to have the wheels angled to some extent

[beast66606]

My Dad borrowed an E series Vauxhall Velox in about 1965 when his Oxford was being fixed. The body paint had faded a bit and gone matt, but every time you shut a door there would be a rustling sound and a rectangular parch of powdered rust would fall to the ground. It was only about ten years old!

 

1o years old was a veteran, I remember leaning on my dads Viva, in the 60s, and the wing gave way, fortunately it also pushed out just as easy

 

Our scrap yard brought forward some letters in Hornby mag I believe, apparently new cars don't get stored as shells - that's probably true but our cars aren't new , its based on one that existed, until a few years ago, next to Wrexham General, but I don't claim it's accurate, next summer it will probably get rebuilt to a more modern "scrappy"

[Ruston]

If we're talking about modelled car scrap yards then one thing that some people get wrong is to put a Land Rover in as a complete rusty bodyshell. Land Rovers don't rust on the outside as they're all aluminium panels and the roofs aren't really strong enough to have other dead motors stacked on top either.

 

Just going back to the post about meticulous parking, I'm surprised that I don't get one of those POLICE AWARE signs that they put on abandoned vehicles stuck on my van sometimes. I'm even worse when in the Land Rover because high kerbs are just another obstacle to drive over and park on.

[Jenny Emily]

If we're talking about modelled car scrap yards then one thing that some people get wrong is to put a Land Rover in as a complete rusty bodyshell. Land Rovers don't rust on the outside as they're all aluminium panels and the roofs aren't really strong enough to have other dead motors stacked on top either.

 

Just going back to the post about meticulous parking, I'm surprised that I don't get one of those POLICE AWARE signs that they put on abandoned vehicles stuck on my van sometimes. I'm even worse when in the Land Rover because high kerbs are just another obstacle to drive over and park on.

 

 

 

I think the 'Police aware' signs only turn up on vehicles abandoned in a dangerous location (I've seen cars left for too long on the motorway hard shoulder acquire these) or vehicles that have obviously attracted a lot of phone calls in order to stop them attracting any more. I've never really seen them turn up on vehicles left off major trunk roads, unless said vehicle was on bricks or missing major parts.

 

I've not seen some-one make the Mickey-mouse mistake of rusting a Land Rover. They can, however, turn dusty white where the paint chips because the aluminium starts to corrode, though it never progresses to more than a surface coat.

 

 

[HerbertHopkins]

November 74, by Kevin Taylor, article entitled "What's wrong with that cow?" (Came across it whilst looking for something else.)

He was Railway of the Month in May 1975 with "Penllyn": my first modeller.

Wondered what happened to him - he was in his late 30s a the time, and I would have thought more layouts could have come from him?

 

Funnily enough, a previous layout by Mr Taylor, Llanderwen I think it was called, was 'Railway of the Month' in the first Modeller I ever bought, around Oct/Nov 1970. IIRC, he then went on to produce a number of articles, mainly on scratch-built buildings, which were rather good. He would be in his seventies now, I hope he's still around. Is there anyone out there who knows him and, if so, is he still modelling? It would be interesting to know.

 

Sorry to go off topic, but the discussion has moved on to cows which, AFAIK don't really qualify as road vehicles anyway!

[Baby Deltic]

Just a thought, but could one of those heavy diecast bodies be heated and used as a former to make the beginnings of a derelict car out of thin plastic sheet? That might provide a more easily workable basis for a scrapper.

 

I found that a pipe vice made an idea scrap yard car crusher when I was younger.

[Oldddudders]

If we're talking about modelled car scrap yards then one thing that some people get wrong is to put a Land Rover in as a complete rusty bodyshell. Land Rovers don't rust on the outside as they're all aluminium panels and the roofs aren't really strong enough to have other dead motors stacked on top either.

It's true that the main visible body panels are aluminium, but the door tops and various other key external bits are steel, and rust before your very eyes if you're not careful! So selective rusty bits on a model are just fine, rather like rusty sills on '50s,'60s & '70s cars, which in extremis could be an MOT failure, vide my 1975 Lancia Beta at 5 years old....

[PhilJ W]

It's true that the main visible body panels are aluminium, but the door tops and various other key external bits are steel, and rust before your very eyes if you're not careful! So selective rusty bits on a model are just fine, rather like rusty sills on '50s,'60s & '70s cars, which in extremis could be an MOT failure, vide my 1975 Lancia Beta at 5 years old....

You had a Lancia Beta that lasted 5 years!

 

 

 

[Fat Controller]

You had a Lancia Beta that lasted 5 years!

It still lasted longer than:-

An AlfaSud- a friend bought one in 1976, which had rotted through within a year.

Italsider, the steelworks outside Naples which was built to provide steel for the Alfasud plant- this closed within a few years of opening, owing the bit of British Steel I worked for a lot of money.