Building an LMS 6-wheel Stove

[coachmann]

All the discussion about LMS 'Stove' 6-wheel passenger brake vans has prompted me to take an interest in such a vehicle and so I have bought an etched kit. I should say at the outset I have not built a non-bogie vehicle before and so this is a voyage of discovery for me also! As usual, I may during the course of construction not use all the parts. These are the Comet Models etchings and castings as received....

The first job was to drill out all the holes on the underframe parts to take .70 wire, then bend as appropriate along the fold lines. I also opened out the holes in the W-irons and fitted pinpoint bearings (attached with Loctite)....

The parts below are laid out more or less as they would be assembled after being fettled. The coach sides come with a ready formed tumblehome, but I have reformed it....

[Oldddudders]

All the discussion about LMS 'Stove' 6-wheel passenger brake vans has prompted me to take an interest in such a vehicle and so I have bought an etched kit. I should say at the outset I have not built a non-bogie vehicle before and so this is a voyage of discovery for me also!

I am really cheered by this, and suggest it's a £ to a pinch of sand that the finished product will be to your usual exhibition quality. Frankly, if the kit people can't sell their wares to modellers at your level, they are indeed doomed.

[mozzer models]

I have built 5 or 6 of these over the last 7 years

& it was the 1st brass coach kit i built found it a nice starter kit for anyone wanting to have a go at coach building

[Kenton]

The coach sides come with a ready formed tumblehome,

That sounds like a real plus

but I have reformed it....

so may we ask why?

[halfwit]

That sounds like a real plus

 

so may we ask why?

 

And how?

[Kenton]

I assume that the modified tumblehome will also require some modification or filing to the ends as well?

[iak]

The master speaks and we listen intently... B)

[Enterprisingwestern]

Having folded up the W irons, I discovered te following 14mm coach wheel flanges touch the slot that is supposed to leave clearance for them... '00' Hornby, Bachmann and 'EM' Gibson. Only Markits '00' wheels revolved freely. So I am now opening up the slots.

 

Looking good coach.

I'm currently beating a couple of 5522 limited run kits into submission and had the same problem with the wheels, I found Black Beetle 14mm fitted nicely without fouling.

"Grandmother sucking eggs moment" Be careful of the Comet battery box positions.

[Brian Kirby]

I knew someone was going to build one of these anytime soon !

 

I've steered well clear of the red hot Dapol Stove R topic, but i did read a few snippets. Sorry Larry, you lost me with the different quoted body widths, does the Comet kit build up to the correct width with the correct roof ? Did the footboards also vary ?

As is clear, i haven't built one of these before either, but i've had a couple of the kits in my strategic reserve box for too long.

Doubtless your's will be in BR Crimson or LMS livery, mine will be maroon and blue respectively, presumably mine will have to have parts of the body strapping missing ?

When Larry comes to fit the correct size 14mm wheels, should we all put tin hats on ?

Cheers, Brian.

[newcastle_central]

Excellent so far Coachmann.

 

Can I ask a stupid question? When reforming the tumblehome, do you anneal and flatten the sides before forming the new tumblehome? I only ask as I have some Comet Thompson non-corridor stock that also has a slightly incorrect tumblehome. I'd like to correct it and would welcome the advice.

 

Thanks,

 

Jonathan

[craigwelsh]

Looking good coach.

I'm currently beating a couple of 5522 limited run kits into submission and had the same problem with the wheels, I found Black Beetle 14mm fitted nicely without fouling..

Have you posted pictures of these anywhere? It'd be interesting to compare the body etches to see which is the better source.

 

I'd have to design sprung w-irons for this carefully as most P4 wheels are the brand new unworn 14.5mm size (3' 7 1/2)!

 

Looking at the picture on the Comet website the kit seems to have the correct longer J-hangers on the centre wheelset unlike the Dapol item.

 

When and how do you fit the top two hinges Larry?

[Guest Max Stafford]

If you had clearance problems, Coach, why didn't you just use 12mm wheels...?

 

(Retreats to nearest hard cover)...

 

Interesting job to watch, I'm in danger of being spurred on to tackle my own...!

 

Dave.

(note to self - ease off on emoticons).

[GC Jack]

I know I am treading on dangerous ground here and will have to - like Dave - retreat to an air raid shelter, but I have carefully glued pre-painted Southern Pride door hinges over coach lining:o

 

Jack

[exet1095]

Outstanding as usual Larry, and it looks like the sun is out in North Wales, unlike here in gloomy Oxford!

[DJH584]

Not having built a kit before, I thought that this might be a good starter kit until I read:

 

"The Comet floorpan was designed to slip into a body with its roof attached and is narrower than the body. Obviously, soldering the sides to a floor that is narrower than the coach ends was not going to work in this instance."

 

I think I will go and find something more simple to construct :(

 

David

[Kenton]

I think I will go and find something more simple to construct :(

I don't think coachmann has indicated that the basic kit as it stands cannot be built, just that he is refining it to suit his tastes, available additional parts, and his take on what the kit should produce.

 

Though personally, I think a wagon is always easier as a starter kit, I guess the worst most daunting part of building a coach is rolling the tumblehome and roof profile (both of which, it sounds, have been provided in the case of this kit.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Crikey! He doesn't hang about, this new lad...

 

Dave.

[industrial]

 

 

I hope you are going to include the welded plates on the bottom of the doors and the patches of rust under the paint on the side panels.

[hayfield]

Coachman

 

Did you mask the bearings before spraying? Or do you clean them out afterwards please.

 

Love the coaches, keen reader of both posts. Thank you for shareing them as the posts are very inspirational

[artisan100]

Hi Larry,

 

Glad you got there to your satisfaction at the end, and are pleased with the result.

 

You'll remember that during the chat we had when you ordered the kit a few days ago I mentioned that I needed to revise the instructions to take account of information that had more recently come to light. Once that revision is done, then the new version will be uploaded onto the website for people to inspect. If there's anything in particular that you want me to change/include then please drop me a PM.

 

Regards,

 

Geoff

Comet Models

[Worsdell forever]

Superb, as usual.

I have a part completed Phoenix one that only needs a couple of handrails, footboards, the roof fitting (which I seem to have misplaced) and corridor conections to complete it. I bought it about 10 years ago, although I had no real need for it, it was only a fiver. B)

[DJH584]

KENTON

 

Thanks for your comment and to whosoever's post which appears to be missing from this thread, thank you for the encouragement - it went along the lines of "if I can do it so can you".

 

MR GODDARD AKA COACHMANN

 

If I may put to you a few questions:

 

1. You put the model in red oxide primer for four hours? Please excuse my ignorance when I ask why for that length of time?

 

2. Someone else asked (apologies for not quoting who) - how did you deal with the bearing issue?

 

3. Am I correct in assuming that the roof is a "pop off" piece or has that been soldered in place after the glazing has been fitted.

On the other hand, referring to your picture that shows the entire vehicle after it had been immersed in red oxide, it appears to be all in one piece.

So how did you fit the glazing?

 

4. What rate iron did you use, along with which flux and solder?

 

I appreciate that this is a lot of questions, but if one doesn't ask one doesn't learn and I am a newbie to this.

Despite my original post, I am not put off by trying to construct my own rolling stock and yes, I will try and find something simpler to start on.

 

However, I have to say that I am in awe with what I have seen you achieve.

If my first attempt at constructing and painting a simple wagon gets anywhere near 50% of the quality I have seen on this thread, then I will be more than pleased.

I take my hat off to you.

 

Regards

 

David

[DJH584]

Larry

 

Thanks very much for the replies.

 

If my memory serves me correctly, the issue was about having fitted the bearings, you then dipped the model in red oxide.

So the question was about how you dealt with the bearings after that process.

 

Regards

 

David

[Barry Rhys]

Hi Larry, and Dave (DJH584).

 

My sincere apologies to either or both of you if I've misunderstood, but I have a sneaking suspicion that a bit of confusion has arisen regarding the red oxide priming process. Reading the following posts:

 

The model will stand in red oxide primer for 4 hours.....

 

 

 

MR GODDARD AKA COACHMANN

 

If I may put to you a few questions:

 

1. You put the model in red oxide primer for four hours? Please excuse my ignorance when I ask why for that length of time?

Reply : Several reasons, but one is It needs to set really hard. If the colour sprayed on top of the primer melts the primer to the metal, it will lose its key and there is a risk the paint will be pulled off the model when removing masking tape.

 

 

 

If my memory serves me correctly, the issue was about having fitted the bearings, you then dipped the model in red oxide.

So the question was about how you dealt with the bearings after that process.

 

 

I get the feeling that Dave has interpreted "The model will stand in red oxide primer for 4 hours" to mean that the coach was immersed in (a container of) liquid red oxide primer, and left to stand in the liquid for four hours (which could be a reasonable interpretation in a case where, for example, a primer acted by oxidising an immersed brass surface).

 

Whereas what Larry means is that the model is sprayed with red oxide primer, then left to stand for four hours after spraying in the red oxide primer. I notice in your other 'Hornby Hawksworths/Bachmann Colletts' thread (here: www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/24128-Hornby-hawksworths-Bachmann-colletts/ ) that you mention "I allow primer 4 hours to 'cure' before applying further paint", which I interpreted as spraying primer then leaving to cure.

 

If it's me that's misunderstood then I'll look a bit of an @rse by now - which would be by no means the first time - but I've got nothing to lose. Anyway, whatever, it's a pleasure reading all of your coach building threads.

 

Neil

 

Edit: Sorry Larry, you're too quick for me! You posted while I was still typing this. Thanks for clearing it up. Neil

[cb900f]

Coach

Are you merging 2 threads together ? Stove R and the spelling thread.

Joking apart, may I ask a question with regards to the door stops on your model. Is it my eyes or have you left the door stops as per the etched indentations ? If so I just wondered for what reason ?

 

Pete