Royal Scot build

[Mike G]

Larry

 

 

Thanks for those observations, I don't have any photos of a freshly out-shopped Scot, so that info will be handily stashed away! The colour photos that I have of this are when she'd been out in traffic for a few months...and that's the look I'm going to try and recreate. But first the lining, the least favourite job and possibly where this may all go a bit 'Pete Tong'!

 

thanks for taking an interest,

 

Mike.

 

 

[coachmann]

There are some good photos of newly outshopped LMR and BR locos in Vol.10 The Colour of Steam - From the Footplate' By Jim Carter (Atlantic).

 

Good luck with the lining out.

 

Larry

[Mike G]

As promised...

 

First the completed chassis with coupling rods. Ignore the daft placement of the sanding pipes, they are just there bent up out of the way for the time being. The motor and gearbox will not be staying in that position, there will be a torque reaction arm placed on the side of the gearbox and an attached to a convenient spacer. For torque reaction bar read piece of wire keeping the gearbox in position!

 

 

 

Now a couple of pictures of the rubbing plate and the bogie.

 

 

 

The springs are made from 0.4 mm NS wire and soldered to the bottom of some 2mm MJT bearings. I did this by placing some 2mm aluminium rod through the axles and then pass that through the sides of the Comet etch..this had to be widened a bit with filing, but nothing too alarming to get a good, smooth transition of the bearing. Some of you will be thinking that 0.4mm NS wire is a little too stiff to act as a spring, well, I tried 0.3 NS wire and that did not feel as though it would support a lot of weight without going to the height of its' travel - not what I wanted. The castings of the body are heavy, I will not need to add any additional weight to the engine to get her to pull the rake of coaches.

 

 

 

This is what the construction looks like underneath.

 

 

 

The rest of today - other than taking these photos - has been spent lining out the engine and tender. Doesn't look too bad, but only once the matt varnish has been applied will I be able to tell if I've applied them properly. I've had pressfix transfers curl up on me as the varnish coat dries...never been able to work that one out. Any ideas?

Off to the club tonight to work on LMJ and finish off the lining tomorrow when I'll post some more pictures up...please be kind!

 

cheers

 

Mike

[craigwelsh]

Looks very good Mike and I like the bogie pivot. I need to do a Black 5 before one of these but ones did get to Cardiff when the LMR was does some remodelling in the early 60s so I may find a prototype I like sometime.

 

A layout blog would be good sometime too .

 

Looking forward to shots of it lined.

[micklner]

Curling lining transfers are too old and the glue has dried up ? Below is useful and has been posted before

 

http://www.freewebs.com/nagnag/howto.htm

 

I personally have had problems with excess glue on the "clear" areas of the lining sheets. I cut them as close to the decal as possible, any excess glue can be removed with a small amount of Meths.

 

Loco looks good

[Mike G]

Just realised I had not added the 'how' to the airbrushing of the completed model...

 

Having given the engine and tender a very good and close scrub with CIF using an old tooth brush, dried the worst of the water off with paper kitchen towel and then dried the rest with a hair drier..don't tell my daughter!..Then off to the spray shed, the shed had been pre-warmed and the model was left in there until such time had passed that I thought that it had reached the same temperature as the room. Checked to make sure that the model was dry and not cold to the touch. Warmed up the Halfords grey in hot - but not boiling - water and gave it a light dusting to see if any defects could be picked out, one or two stubborn fibre bristles picked off and some rubbing down with 1600 grade W&D and it was back on for a full coat of primer. Left to dry for a couple of hours and turned the temperature up in the shed = put the heater on full!

Cellulose paint mixed, with five parts thinner to one part paint, sprayed on between 15-20psi and mixed using a drill and L shaped (7mm rail) bit in the end to get it all blended. Must have done this for a minute may be two. I should, at this junction, say that proper breathing gear was worn once the cellulose thinners had been opened. DO NOT under estimate the damage that this type of paint can do to your lungs and other organs without the correct equipment. I dare say that Coach has pointed out the danger of painting with cellulose, but it's always worth repeating for those who don't know.

First spraying is done in all those hard to reach places - pointless in flooding the easy bits of the model and then find that you've missed bits, because the paint has not reached the inside of corners or behind vents or other obstructions, so I tackle the problem areas first. Don't rush, build up the layers of paint slowly, on the first couple of passes you may not see anything at all and wonder if your airbrush is blocked. Again, don't panic, just let your airbrush go up and down the model at a nice pace, don't linger in one place and don't wiz down the model like Speedy Gonzales either. Start spraying off the model, spray over the area and only finish off your paint stroke once you are past the end of the model. Gradually the colour and coverage will come through, when you're satisfied that you've got it all and the depth of colour is what you feel is correct STOP spraying, don't keep going just to empty the jar. Once you've stopped, check in a good light that there are no bare or light patches. If not, all well and good. Once the painting is complete I put the finished model into a seed propagator. Clean out the airbrush - I always strip mine back and clean the lot. Within an hour the model will be touch dry, but I usually wait 24 hours before going anywhere near it again.

I suspect that a lot of this is old hat to a lot of people on this forum, but to those that have never tried cellulose - DO. I have found it to be far friendlier than enamel. Its' easier to paint with, the finish is way better and it cleans up easier as well. And don't just throw any mixed paint away, put it back into the jar, you never waste paint again! Of course the down side of this paint is the horrible smell, guaranteed to annoy your 'best beloved' if done in the house without some form of extraction!! Hence the shed!!

 

Brian, I hope that gives you an insight on 'how to' .

 

cheers

 

Mike

[micklner]

I used to use Celloluse Car sprays when they were avilable . A much better finish , harder and it will "shrink" on to the model deetail if not too applied too thick. If it runs it is s a nightmare.

 

The only problem I never cured was how to use it with a paintbrush. It dries so quick its a gloopy mess in seconds and totally useless to brush with , how Coachman uses it in a Bowpen is beyond me

[coachmann]

how Coachman uses it in a Bowpen is beyond me

I keep small quantities in little bottles. The celulose black is quite well let down with thinners for lining out raised panelling (as on 1920 full panelled coach liveries), but the 'gold' is treakly to give a very fine line. Good ventilation is vitally important. Lining coaches with cellulose is the only way to make the job commercialy viable, as the lining dries almost instantly.

[Mike G]

So having finished the lining, here's the photo's...it isn't bad, but it's not great either. Off the shed tomorrow for a coat of railmatch matt varnish.

 

 

 

The running plate was a pig to do and the photo shows it too. I wish I had more patience when doing this type of thing, but all I want to do is finish it quickly and get a prize winning engine for my efforts!

 

 

 

As I said before, please be kind...I don't take rejection easily

 

Mike

[coachmann]

As I said before, please be kind...I don't take rejection easily

I hope the following observations assist. The horizontal orange line along the base of the splashers was never applied on London Midland locos. The AWC cylinder atop the footplate should be black. You have already said you prefer the whole of the cab roof black. Sorted. Neat looking Scot.

[Worsdell forever]

As Larry has said, neat looking Scot. I believe no loco looks good in BR green but I can appreciate a nice model.

[steve fay]

Looks very good Mike and I like the bogie pivot. I need to do a Black 5 before one of these but ones did get to Cardiff when the LMR was does some remodelling in the early 60s so I may find a prototype I like sometime.

 

A layout blog would be good sometime too .

 

Looking forward to shots of it lined.

[steve fay]

The London rifle brigade got to Cardiff central when the bridge at Shrewsbury was being upgraded in 1962 there's a picture of her on central station in the south Wales main line Cardiff edition

[Mike G]

Seeing this thread re-emerge from the depths of the forum, I thought I'd put the latest photos up after the matt varnish had gone on. I have had a bit of a brain fart as well! I was looking critically at the cylinders of the engine and decided that they weren't square and they were out of shape. So bought a new etch and went off to my shed to strip down & reclaim the slide bars and start again...cellulose thinners and 30 seconds latter and I'm back to bare metal...only I took another close look to find that these were not out of square and were not bent out of shape. Moral of this story, do not make decisions after being in work for more than 12 hours at a time!! So last night off to the shed and repainted my perfectly shaped/formed cylinders. It must be an age thing, goodness only knows what I'm gonna be like in another 10 years. Anyway, these are probably the last photos that will be taken with my trusty Olympus Sp500, as I have a Canon EOS 500d on the way in Santa's sled.

 

 

 

 

 

So were am I now with this...well the pick ups have to be fitted, smoke deflectors to go on, crew to be painted and valve gear to be attached. Having marched through this build at a rate of nots why the slow down...well, I'm in the process of finishing a 94xx, a 56xx and a Hall. My std class 5 (Gibson kit...euch!) is finished as well, but that needs to go to the paint shop and its really to cold at the moment.

 

Some Conclusions

I have really enjoyed this kit, I would recommend it to any modeller that has experience of soldering. It's not a beginners kit. A more competent modeller would probably make this into something really special - the one on the Comet site by John Brighton, is one such example - I am just an average guy who loves to build engines and coaches (my wife would say 'obsessed'...what does she know?). The castings are good, the instructions good, not that I ever read them, I used the exploded diagrams of which there are plenty. I didn't end up having to refer to the instructions to find out where everything went - that must really slow things down and be very frustrating - in all a plain enjoyable experience that has resulted in something in which I am duly proud and look forward to running on Little Mill Junction. As soon as I fit everything on it's off to be weathered - nothing too heavy - and then I'll post the final photos to close the thread off. Thank you to everyone who took an interest, I am now armed with more information on these wonderful engines than I was at the start of the project, what a result!

Mike

[craigwelsh]

Seeing this thread re-emerge from the depths of the forum, I thought I'd put the latest photos up after the matt varnish had gone on. I have had a bit of a brain fart as well! I was looking critically at the cylinders of the engine and decided that they weren't square and they were out of shape. So bought a new etch and went off to my shed to strip down & reclaim the slide bars and start again...cellulose thinners and 30 seconds latter and I'm back to bare metal...only I took another close look to find that these were not out of square and were not bent out of shape. Moral of this story, do not make decisions after being in work for more than 12 hours at a time!! So last night off to the shed and repainted my perfectly shaped/formed cylinders.

In that situation I always put it down and get on with something else then come back to the item 24 hours later and reappraise. I usually find I think its ok then and save myself the work!

 

So were am I now with this...well the pick ups have to be fitted, smoke deflectors to go on, crew to be painted and valve gear to be attached. Having marched through this build at a rate of nots why the slow down...well, I'm in the process of finishing a 94xx, a 56xx and a Hall. My std class 5 (Gibson kit...euch!) is finished as well, but that needs to go to the paint shop and its really to cold at the moment.

Could you give some detail on the 9400 and 5600 and their basis and work please? I have a Wills 9400 in a box and got rid of a Lima one, both needed a bit more work than I wanted to put in to them at the time. 5600 radial truck is an interesting one so i'd love to know what you did there.

[Horsetan]

....My std class 5 (Gibson kit...euch!) is finished as well, ....

 

I surmise there were "issues" with this?

 

I thought the etchings were fine, but the firebox casting in my two sample kits were somewhat assymmetrical in cross-section, and lacked a bit of depth.....

[Mike G]

I surmise there were "issues" with this?

 

I thought the etchings were fine, but the firebox casting in my two sample kits were somewhat assymmetrical in cross-section, and lacked a bit of depth.....

 

Issues, yes you could say that...the firebox casting does not sit correctly to the footplate, its 2/3 mm too high, the footplate half etch lines are not correctly formed so that you do not get a good bend to form the angle, the footplate etch is too weak to support the weight of the cast boiler and bends when added. The etches for the valve gear were at best poor. Holes not etched, half etched and some even missing. The connecting rods are a tad overscale - but thats' me being picky - the fact that none of the castings have a locating pitch for anything to be attached to it is really annoying and very time consuming to get the 'addons' in the correct position.

 

Craig - I'll post some photos later

 

Mike

[Horsetan]

Issues, yes you could say that...the firebox casting does not sit correctly to the footplate, its 2/3 mm too high,

 

Hmmmm.....my sample castings were too low, making the firebox look too small.

 

......the footplate half etch lines are not correctly formed so that you do not get a good bend to form the angle, the footplate etch is too weak to support the weight of the cast boiler and bends when added. The etches for the valve gear were at best poor. Holes not etched, half etched and some even missing. The connecting rods are a tad overscale - but thats' me being picky - the fact that none of the castings have a locating pitch for anything to be attached to it is really annoying and very time consuming to get the 'addons' in the correct position.

 

Interesting. Very interesting. Surprised to hear about the etch quality, as almost none of the issues you've mentioned were present in my two samples. Both cab and footplate went together quite well, I thought. Maybe we could compare notes?

[Mike G]

 

Could you give some detail on the 9400 and 5600 and their basis and work please?

 

Craig

 

The 94xx is a perserverance chassis, utrascale wheels, DJH gearbox 50:1 - I like them, quiet and smooth - 1624 Mashima. Fixed rear driver and compensated mid and front drivers. Body is a heavily reworked Lima. The fact that they got so much of this engine wrong, led to a lot of work. Starting from the front...solid frame section across the smoke box saddle - out that came and false plastic card floor added. Lamp irons missing all over, sand box covers missing left and right sides, all the pipe work under the boiler both sides a total disaster, out it came and made my own representation. Of course the big thing on this engine are all the hand rails dotted all over the place. It's like someone from Health and Safety got their hands on the design and thought about it! I used up 14 inches of wire on a tank engine! On the cab right hand side there's a set of steps that are totally fictitious, off they came and filled in, didn't do a particularly good job of that, either that or the filler shrank when it dried and I didn't notice until after I'd painted the engine. Generally, dimensions aren't too far out, well I find that they are acceptable to me.

The 56xx is a first, it's a Bill Bedford chassis, with a Bachmann body. So this will be my first CSB'd engine. The radial truck that Bill has come up with, hmm, not sure about that one as I haven't put wheels into the chassis as yet. I think it's a 'suck it and see' moment. We have four foot minimum radius on LMJ so movement in the radial truck will be minimal.

This is the link to the pdf that Bill produces for the chassis. The radial truck design is just off the bottom of the page. However there is enough metal there to remove Bill's design and add one of your own making.

 

http://www.mousa.biz/_downloads/LFF2000.pdf

 

And that's how I've built it. What the pdf doesn't show is that in the frames have wire holes (in the ends of that section of the frame) to allow a sort of secondary springing to bear down on the axles in the radial truck - I think? Course the big problem with this will be the weighting, that's going to have to be spot on. The big weight in the coal bunker of the model is all but useless, well to me it is, as I can't find a way to counter balance it properly at the front of the body, second problem forming the part of the smokebox that's missing with the Bachmann chassis, but I have a plan .. 'as cunning as a fox' to get round that problem. Photos to follow.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

 

cheers

 

Mike

[davefrk]

Hi Mike, the Scot's looking good, I didn't realize you were also building it in P4. I've now got mine almost ready for spraying but the weather has stopped me shotblasting the metal parts outside first so it'll have to wait, plenty of other things to be getting on with. I've attached a couple of pictures taken a few weeks ago before I dis-assembled it for blasting and painting in behind all the difficult bits.

 

Regards,

Dave.

[Kempenfelt]

Dave, that Scot looks absolutely superb! Very nice clean work, excellent job on the lubricator pipework and the valve gear looks particularly fine! I'm currently working my way through the inside valve gear on a Brassmaster's 4f and one criticism I have of their later work (in particular the Jinty and 4f coupling rods), is that the coupling rods appear a bit on the heavy side. I do still need to compare measurement's from the etchings with those of the locomotive profiles book to confirm this.

 

Mike, apologies for digressing. Slightly digressing yet again, a little birdie tells me that there's an early Christmas pressie of nickle silver on its way to you! B)

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

 

[Mike G]

Paul

Thanks for the heads up...now on 'full postal alert', just in case the package falls into enemy hands!

 

Dave

That is just stunning, I checked the MRJ article just to make sure you hadn't lifted the photos from there. Beautiful work, would you be kind enough to post a full colour photo once you've finished her? I do like the design of the front bogie from this kit, takes springing another step forward.

Thinks...wonder how much money I'll get this Christmas...hmmm?

Apart from the instructions being a bit of a nuisance, did you have any other altercations with the build? I see Pinkmouse is struggling with his Bmsters 4f. I've always wanted to have a go at one of these kits, but always thought that they were beyond the average modeller - which is were I put myself. I'd love to marry one of the resin boilers with the rest of Comets kit, pity they don't sell the pieces individually. The LMS bug has really struck me, as I'm already throwing bits and pieces together for a Jubilee.

Thanks for posting such a lovely piece of work.

 

regards

 

Mike

[Pinkmouse]

Excellent work on the Scots chaps! Well done! I might buy one myself.

 

I see Pinkmouse is struggling with his Bmsters 4f. I've always wanted to have a go at one of these kits, but always thought that they were beyond the average modeller - which is were I put myself.

 

Struggling isn't quite the word I would use. A challenge in creative engineering and problem solving perhaps.

 

Oh and don't worry about being an average modeller - I'm only a beginner, the 4F is only my fourth kit! And halfway through this build, I bought a BM Jubilee, so it hasn't put me off at all.

[Kempenfelt]

Paul

Thanks for the heads up...now on 'full postal alert', just in case the package falls into enemy hands!

 

Dave

I'd love to marry one of the resin boilers with the rest of Comets kit, pity they don't sell the pieces individually. The LMS bug has really struck me, as I'm already throwing bits and pieces together for a Jubilee.

 

Mike, weather dependant the etches should be winding their way to you via my place! I'll personally check they're all there, but if some go missing it's all Craigs fault!

 

Oh and if you're after a resin boiler from BM they will sell them individually! Robin bout 3 4f boilers for his BB chassis's and a Black 5 boiler for his Caprotti 5 although this isn't going to be used anymore.

 

Oh and don't worry about being an average modeller - I'm only a beginner, the 4F is only my fourth kit! And halfway through this build, I bought a BM Jubilee, so it hasn't put me off at all.

 

Makes your work even more impressive PM, must mean i'm bonkers as i've only attempted one other kit (the High Level 3f) and I still haven't finished that one! Theres a Jubilee in the que too so look forward to seeing your progress on that one!

 

Paul

[Mike G]

I bought a BM Jubilee, so it hasn't put me off at all.

 

EEeeekkk, I'd forgotten they had as well, oh my credit cards are going to start moving to the back of my wallet again...I feel a spending spree coming on, have to wait till January to see how much my bonus is!!

 

Paul

Thanks for the info on BM, I shall be sending an email shortly and another order coming Mr Brewin's way! Just one problem - there was only one Scot that ran through LMJ, never mind always room for a breakdown or two!!!

Last day in work tomorrow, starting at 04:15, love it, home by lunchtime..bring on the etches.

 

Mike