Royal Scot build

[Mike G]

Hi

Having been lurking for a good few months, I thought that I'd push out a few clips of what I've been up to whilst 'lurking'.

 

What's in the box?

Short answer...alot. The full answer is everything that you need to build a very good representation of this class of locomotive. I always look at the parts quite critically and see if there's' anything there that can be upgraded from another source...in this case there isn't. The castings do have some flash on them, but that's easily dealt with. The body that I received did have some pits, but again this is easy stuff to put right and should not put anyone off from building the kit...this one or any other for that matter.

 

Info used.

I used 'LMS Loco Profiles No1..The Rebuilt Royal Scots' and 'The book of Royal Scots' by Ian Smith as my guides through the considerable maize of info on these engines. I did use some photos out of 'Preservation Steam' for the backhead detail, this photo has copyright on it and I can't share it through this media.

 

My usual method of building is to start with the tender, so...

 

The Tender

The attached photos are of the finished tender and they aren't particularly clear. All I shall say is that these comet tenders are a joy to build. Throw the solder, flux and soldering iron into the box, shake and out comes a great representation of the real thing. I cannot speak highly enough of the design process that's gone into making these so easy to build.

 

Some of these photos show my inept soldering skills, but trust me as you'll see this really builds into a fine model.

 

I did not encounter any problems with the build - NONE. The chassis I used was one from my own stock - an old Perserverance chassis - as I wanted a compensated chassis. I've seen the Comet chassis sprung, but as I've never experimented doing that, I thought I'd leave that idea on the back burner and stick to what I know. As far as I could see from the info that I had, there was nothing to add to the tender that wasn't in the kit - so no extra expense on detailing bits. You'll have noticed from the third photo that theres' no place for the connection twixt engine and tender, the hole is blocked by another piece of brass as this is sweated together. So, out with the mini drill and a1mm drill and a series of holes followed around the opening and then filing back to the correct shape, not a problem, just something to get past.

 

The Engine

Chassis first...sprung on the first 2 drivers and rigid on the third wheel - this will be the driving wheel. Gearbox from High level and a Mashima 1624. I like to use Gordon Ashton's springing units, I have not, as yet, had the courage to build a chassis with a CSB springing in it.

First things to go together are the coupling rods, no dramas there. Then drill the holes to 1.6 mm and drill the rods as pairs, so that way there can be no errors in the length between holes. I'm lucky here as we have a good pillar drill at our club. But it can probably be done with a mini drill with care. I drill the narrow end first, the end with a single lamination. Then put a 1.6 mm drill bit through the 2 halves - of the same rod from the opposite side, push that drill bit into a hole (1.6mm) in a piece of scrap wood and the drill out the doublelaminate end as a pair - making sure that they are properly in alignment before the drill goes anywhere near them.

 

 

I built the chassis on the Holiday Hobbies jig. I did find this a bit of a fuss. Yes it all went together and went together squarely and true, but it was a bit of a bodge to use. So 1 month after I bought it, out came 'Avonside Pro 2 chassis' , yep my luck is like that! This jig is still in use, but only as a rolling road...a very expensive rolling road!

 

 

So, having got the chassis sorted, it was time to tackle the whitemetal body. As I have said earlier is this rambling the body was pitted. Out with the Milliput fine and spread over the offending sites. If the scarring of thewhitemetal isn't too bad I usually make it worse by drilling into the scar so that the Milliput will have a greater area to stick to. Leave for 24 hours and then file back to shape, should it need it. I didn't know until recently that if you add a drop of water to the end of your spreading implement, Milliput goes very smooth,almost flat...worth knowing that, wish I'd known it at the time.

 

Of course the alternative to using Milliput is to use low melt solder, but I find this takes more time to clean up.

That's enough for now, more when I get time.

 

cheers

 

Mike

 

[lonesome_whistle]

Hi Mike,

 

I'll be watching this with interest - the tender looks very good.

 

I take it the finished model will be destined for Little Mill Junction? Have you decided which of the Rebuilt Scots you'll be building?

[Mike G]

Hi Mike,

 

I'll be watching this with interest - the tender looks very good.

 

I take it the finished model will be destined for Little Mill Junction? Have you decided which of the Rebuilt Scots you'll be building?

 

Absolutely, South Wales Borderer 46156, ran out of Holyhead during the spell that LMJ is being modelled. I have the coaches already built, painted and lined that ran behind her for this duty...they're just not finished - glazing, door handles etc.

Thanks for taking an interest.

 

Mike

[Mike G]

As you can see from the last photo I've already started to put the body together. There were a few parts that needed some TLC to get them to fit snuggly together, but nothing that could not be overcome or made to look as though not there.

 

 

 

As you can see a bit of a gap between firebox and boiler and also the additional low melt solder used to cover gaps at the bottom of the footplate meeting the firebox - this needs tidying up. The one thing that I don't like on castings are pipe runs...sorry but I always think that they look over scale. Out with the three sided scraper and off they come. I spent the next couple of hours trying to bend up 0.7 mm NS wire to make the correct shape. Yes I know, what a muppet! Failed miserably with that, so I settled on the easier copper wire.

 

 

 

I should add here that the cab took me a while to figure out how to attach to the rest of the engine, I think it was one of those more senior moments that appear to be striking home with more regularity than I would like and not the instructions! Added to the top feed, dome and double chimney and we have something starting to look like an engine.

 

 

 

Now for the bits that I really enjoy...the detailing!

 

Mike

[micklner]

Probably the photos? The boiler line looks too be very smokebox heavy, the holes for the handrails also look the same level against the footplate edge?

[Mike G]

Probably the photos?

 

The boiler line looks too be very smokebox heavy, the holes for the handrails also down at the same level against the "straight" footplate edge?

 

Yes, I'd agree with that..from the photos it does, so I've checked with a straight edge and no probs.

 

Mike

[Mike G]

So, more work completed and the cab roof added for good measure.

 

 

 

You will also notice that those gaps have disappeared from the join between boiler and firebox and some tidying up between footplate and firebox has been started. To give myself a rest from all this, I decided to detail the backhead for the cab. I found a photo of 'Royal Scot' 6100 backhead in 'Heritage railways'. I don't think I'd be stretching too far to suppose that things would not be too different between engines in the cab department...I am wiling to be proved wrong. I had to add a lot of pipe work and move one of the dials to a more realistic position. Well it corresponds to the photo anyway! Great fun and a worth while mini project. I did have to cut away some of the bottom of the backhead to get it to fit the cab after I'd done all the pipe runs.

 

 

 

Yet to add the regulator...I must have got carried away with myself as I built the slide bars and steam chests. I decided to add the drains to the cylinders. Not quite as refined as the Brassmasters detailing kit, but will do for me.

 

 

 

Hopefully, I'll get the rest of the footplate detail finished and some more photos to follow, if you can stand the excitement.

 

Mike

[45609]

Hi Mike,

 

Looks like you are progressing well with your Scot. I'm sure you may be aware of this but just a heads up about clearances behind the cross head in P4. The Comet 8F I built a few years ago needed the cylinder centres expanded by about 0.5 to 0.75mm. This was even after doing the usual trick of a single thickness of coupling rod and a recessed crank pin on the leading axle set. What I did was fabricate a new stretcher for the cylinder fold up. I made sure it was a good fit between the front and rear faces of the existing fold up before slitting the cylinder assembly with a piercing saw down a longitudinal centreline (through the slotted mounting hole). The new stretcher can then be used as a jig to keep the two halves aligned whilst soldering back together.

 

Cheers...Morgan

[Horsetan]

....The Comet 8F I built a few years ago needed the cylinder centres expanded by about 0.5 to 0.75mm. ....

 

Would this be on the old "original" brass stretcher? It was designed for OO primarily. The new generation Comet cylinder stretchers (now in nickel silver) are meant to be P4-compatible now, since the centres have been moved...

[45609]

Hi Ivan,

 

Indeed the 8F I built was from the old Comet design and now you mention it I do recall that the etches were re-designed to be P4 friendly. I had a quick look at the Comet website and cannot confirm, either from the sketch or the written instructions, if the piston rod centres had been moved outboard to give more clearance behind the crossheads. The attached picture shows what I did. Notice the parts that need to be removed for P4/EM frames spacing. Maybe Geoff (Artisan100) can tell us the answer?

 

Cheers.....Morgan

[Horsetan]

I remember a discussion years and years ago on E4um about the piston rod centres which sort of led to the eventual decision by Comet to redesign the cylinder etches (and this more-or-less coincided with even more spring-friendly chassis frets by them) to suit P4 and EM.

 

I did something similar to you on a "Duchess" chassis, but it didn't work very well for me; I think my stretcher wasn't strong enough. I remember the original had to be split and spaced about 1mm further apart for use on my P4 setup. I might change the whole assembly for a new-generation cylinder etch.

 

I've had a fair few of the old etches in the past, so was considering swapping all of them for the new ones - I bought a couple of these last year - to save time in cutting the stretcher, etc. I have compared the two versions, and it seems to me that the piston rod centres were moved out on the new ones, which is exactly what we want.

[Mike G]

Yes, the kit contained the 'old' style cylinders, so it will have to be split, but I think I'm looking at a 1.5mm spread to get the clearances that I can work to. Unlike Morgan, I'm going to keep the double thickness on the connecting rods and file away part of the rod that passes in front of the leading driver. I've also used Ultrascale recessed crank pins to get ahead on the clearances behind the crosshead. I'm also going to have to pack out the leading drivers with washers, as I don't want any horizontal movement of the axle...which will take up all the rizzla type space twixt crosshead and coupling rod. I'm also going to spring the front bogie and use a rubbing plate - placed underneath the cylinders stretcher - to take to weight of the front of the engine, so that the springing is half in compression. That way it will have up and downward forces ie. be able to move in both planes. Well that's the theory, whether it'll work out like that, time will tell.

Bit more work today...

 

 

 

regards

 

Mike

[davefrk]

Hi Mike, I've been following your build of the Scot as I'm doing one myself also in P4, a Brassmasters one. To be honest though the Brassmasters one is a beautiful kit with every detail one would want but if only the instructions would tell you where everything goes, I've spent more time looking up photos and other drawings to find where ''part number 1xx goes'' than actually building it. I built a Comet Caprotti Five a while ago and the instructions have some decent 'exploded' diagrams so you should be okay.

One question, what wheels are you using? I've used ultrascale but not the ones suggested in the instructions as they where Stanier Duchess drivers and the Scots kept their Fowler drivers after rebuilding (Stanier bogies though) I've used the LNE A3 wheel as the rim has a Fowler plain shape to it and only one spoke out, you can see the difference in the rims but not the spokes if you get me. Good luck with the Scot, mine is just about ready for painting.

 

All the best.

Dave

[Horsetan]

Hi Mike, I've been following your build of the Scot as I'm doing one myself also in P4, a Brassmasters one. To be honest though the Brassmasters one is a beautiful kit with every detail one would want but if only the instructions would tell you where everything goes, I've spent more time looking up photos and other drawings to find where ''part number 1xx goes'' than actually building it. ....

 

This was something flagged up in MRJ 149 when Stephen Williams built his example. There had been a change of approach in the instructions at that time and unlike the previous LMS kits, no exploded diagrams were prepared for the engine.

 

I've been dismantling one which had been half-built to "OO" (at which point the original owner / builder seems to have had something of a meltdown), and had to buy replacement etches from Brassmasters themselves so that I could effectively start again in P4. They also supplied missing diagrams, which turned out to be side views marked with the part numbers plus a hurriedly hand-drawn sketch of the motion bracket. It might help if we have a go at doing a stage-by-stage photo build, spread over a the course of a year or two......!

 

The P4/S4 wheels in my kit are all Alan Gibsons - Fowler pattern drivers, Stanier bogie and tender.

[Mike G]

One question, what wheels are you using? I've used ultrascale but not the ones suggested in the instructions as they where Stanier Duchess drivers and the Scots kept their Fowler drivers after rebuilding (Stanier bogies though) I've used the LNE A3 wheel as the rim has a Fowler plain shape to it and only one spoke out, you can see the difference in the rims but not the spokes if you get me. Good luck with the Scot, mine is just about ready for painting.

 

All the best.

Dave

 

Hi Dave

I was lucky (possibly?)...I managed to get a full set of Sharmans before they disappeared from the market, although I hear that they are due to make a come back in Jan 2011. I believe, that like Ivan's, they are the Fowler pattern. I also have a set of Ultrascale to go underneath a DJH Duchess...when I have a spare moment or two! Do you find that using Ultrascale wheels that they tend to loose their quartering very easily and you have to resort to pinning the d**n things on? So much to do, so little...

Mike

(Back in the salt mine)

[Horsetan]

....Do you find that using Ultrascale wheels that they tend to lose their quartering very easily and you have to resort to pinning the d**n things on? ....

 

Not had an issue when using Loctite 601/603 retainer.....

[Mike G]

I've heard that using that glue, that the wheels/centres become brittle? I once had a set of Gibson's shatter on me, after using it, admittedly I was trying a tweak

[Horsetan]

I've heard that using that glue, that the wheels/centres become brittle? ....

 

Not had that happen.

[craigwelsh]

I've heard that using that glue, that the wheels/centres become brittle? I once had a set of Gibson's shatter on me, after using it, admittedly I was trying a tweak

Shouldn't do, especially as they sell it http://www.ultrascale.co.uk/mis0001.php ! Its also the recommended type for sticking Exactoscale wheels to the axle. I find you need to buy a new bottle for it to be effective though otherwise it doesn't take.

 

Gibson plastic is slightly different anyway and not as good as the Ultrascale stuff though this is all before Colin took over and he seems to have got the wheels running truer at least now from what Gibson users have said recently.

[Horsetan]

.....Gibson plastic is slightly different anyway and not as good as the Ultrascale stuff though this is all before Colin took over and he seems to have got the wheels running truer at least now from what Gibson users have said recently.

 

Until such time as we are once again blessed with the availability of Sharman wheels, Alan Gibson is the only source of Fowler pattern drivers for the Scot. Ultrascale don't make them.

[Mike G]

Finished the footplate detailing and started to add the detail that makes this engine 'The South Wales Borderer'. Fortunately some of my friends are avid collectors of photos and I have managed to get some decent shots of her as she was running in North Wales.

 

 

 

 

 

I got too tired to add the handrails! So, that'll be my job for this evening...then off to the paint shop - well a friends shed that has a compressor in it actually! Usual problems at this stage of the build, clearing the flash off the small parts, very time consuming, but very worth while. At least I think so. I still have to make up the smoke deflectors and I'm not looking forward to that, as there are some very small whitemetal pieces that have to be soldered on.. I'm not well known for my finesse with a soldering iron...I managed to put a side through on one of my Dave Alexander tenders! I shall also have to introduce the bends to the deflectors as well, that's another job I'm quiet nervous about. Still, grow and learn. I've managed to source a rubbing plate for the bogie...it's a Comet brass disk that used to be sold with the older style of coach kit. Needs a bit of thinning, probably need to take a mil out of it to get the springing to work efficiently. Another blessing, one of the lads at the club has a milling machine!

 

Thanks for all the interest..

 

Mike

[Mike G]

Just to keep things up to date..I've finished spraying the loco, tender and accompanied bits including the bogie for the engine - gloss black cellulose (from Chris Wesson) - I have placed the rubbing plate into the chassis and got the wheels on as well. Added all of those sand pipes that make the underframe look so busy - they were and are, a real pain, as they get in the way of adding the brakes. Next build I'll do as Tim Venton does and make the brakes removable. As a trial I've put the coupling rods on and I'm pleased to say she runs along very smoothly - no sign of any tight spots or limps! So a bit of a result for the jig! I'm on a weekend of nights, so photos will have to wait till Weds. Now all I've got to do is figure out a neat way of coupling the tender to the engine...something I should have thought about a few weeks ago!

I want to add a crew to this engine - and that's a first! - many years ago I bought some nicely cast whitemetal figures, which have been dusted off and given a light coat of primer. Question is..enamel or acrylic? And if acrylic, does the technique differ to using enamels? Darkest colours first, then dry brushing the lighter shades on? If you use acrylics do you need to use a primer anyway?

 

Mike

[Mike G]

As usual with work, things didn't go according to plan, so instead I spent a day covering the engine in paint. Cellulose BR green from Mr Wesson - again. If you have the chance to use this type of paint have a go, it covers well...lots of repeated passes to build up colour, but gives a far finer finish than enamel. Either that or I'm really cr*p at using enamels through my airbrush...you decide.

 

 

 

Tomorrow I'll put pictures up of the front bogie and the wheeled chassis. And put in some words to show how the bogie was sprung...gotta dash dinners' burning!

 

Mike

[Bob Reid]

Lovely paint job Mike - as you say, quite fine looking! What's the story behind the paint/supplier? - I'm interested in having a go.

 

[Edit] Actually I may have answered my own question by looking a bit harder http://website.lineone.net/~cbwesson/chris_wesson_models.htm

[coachmann]

Unless you are going in a for a dirty loco, the roof from the cab to the rainstrip would be green when outshopped. Also sandbox fillers, reversing reach-rod and splasher tops