Football Focus

[mikeyk]

Hello all

 

I'm a footy fan, and have followed Arsenal since I was 9 (I was born in London), but I am a supporter of Swansea City since I first went to a game at the Vetch Field when I was 13 with my cousins and uncles, though ironically I spent the first five years of my life not that far away from Cardiff (!), that will make br2975 chuckle!

 

I get up to see the Swans play a few times a year, and I also watch/support Haverfordwest County, my local team in the Welsh Premier League.

 

Because I have lived and worked in quite a few places around the UK, I do watch out for the teams from those places, and consequently have a soft spot for teams like Doncaster and Exeter.

[Calnefoxile]

Whats the consenus of opinion on here about Phil Gartside resurrecting the idea of a 2 tiered Premiership with 30-40 teams including Celtic and Rangers??? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8353937.stm

 

IMHO I think its a rubbish idea, if Celtic & rangers want to join the English league then they should start at the bottom like everyone else has to, start in League 2 and work their way up.

 

As for the 2 tiered approach, is this Mr Gartsides idea for protection against relegation for Bolton??? Or is it a genuine attempt to ease the financial pressure on teams being relegated from the Premiership??

 

There is a massive financial pressure on teams being relegated from the Prmeiership to the Championship and the 'Parachute' payments are supposed to make relegation a bit easier on the teams relegated, but I believe that it is the clubs themselves that should think about the possibility of relegation and make sure their contracts with players have a clause in that states 'Should relgation happen you will take a pay cut' or words to that effect.

 

I also believe that the financial situation in football is not going to be sustainable and we will lose a major footballing team very soon, I think Rangers are almost in that position now.

 

anyway, what do others think???

 

Regards

 

Neal.

 

Up The Foxes

[wollastonblue]

While I disagree with Rangers and Celtic being allowed into the Premier League, they should enter the english league through a play off to enter the Blue Square Premier IMO.

 

But I do agree that something needs to be done about it. Smaller teams, ie Bolton, Wigan, tenth place is the best they can hope for. Villa for example Europa League place, but they can't take the competition seriously. Blues 17th is considered a good season. Where as the Championship, and football league, it is a lot more competitive, and there is more to play for.

 

The best thing in my opinion would be to start this European Super League, but set requirements on the clubs, for example financial security, not just the biggest stadium, and the best teams, and the make the premier league more competitive by lowering the prize fund. This will make things more competitive, and more teams will have more to play for. Which should improve the games, and entertainment for the fans.

 

With regard to losing a major team due to finance reasons, we could Liverpool do that sooner than you think.

[The Fatadder]

TBH I'd welcom Celtic and Rangers in the prem just to show how over rated both teams are....

Though the two tiered idea just sounds silly, just sounds like yet another name for division 1/championship. The same financial problems will still apply because no one will be interested in premiership tier 2.....

[Calnefoxile]

 

With regard to losing a major team due to finance reasons, we could Liverpool do that sooner than you think.

 

Quite possibly, and at least the Government won't step in to save them unlike the Spanish Governemnt have for the likes of Real Madrid, at least I think it is them or it could be the Italian Government saving one fo the Milan teams, or I could just be talking absolute claptrap like i normally do

 

Anyway, I, ina strange way, hope that one of the 'Big' clubs does have to call in the recievers just to see how they try and squirm and wriggle their way out of it. COuld be kind of interesting.

 

Regards

 

Neal.

[The Fatadder]

 

Anyway, I, ina strange way, hope that one of the 'Big' clubs does have to call in the recievers just to see how they try and squirm and wriggle their way out of it. COuld be kind of interesting.

 

Regards

 

Neal.

 

I'd love to see it happen, mostly because the Arsenal are in such a good financial position that it wouldnt be us

[wollastonblue]

It was reported that the Banks wanted to pull the debt from Liverpool earlier this year, which IIRC is in the region ??160 million. But stopped short of calling in the receivers, as they were concerned about attacks on their staff and branches. But talking to an extremely concerned Liverpool season ticket holder on Sunday, the banks could pull the plug if Liverpool fail to make it through the group stages of the Champions League. He has also said that everyone at the club wants Rafa sacked, but the can't afford to sack him. It would be interesting to see what happens to them, if they did go into receivership. Would they get the 10 point deduction like everyone else?

[luckymucklebackit]

Please, please, please take Rangers and Celtic down to the English Premiership, they have bullied Scottish Football for too long and I am dying to see them get their face rubbed right in it in England. Their fans are glory hunting **self-censored**, lets see how wonderful they are after a few seasons without a trophy!!

 

Jim

[AndrewC]

News just in. Gartside's proposals for the 2 tier Premiership and inclusion of Rangers & Celtic have been thrown in the bin. Queue the resurrection of the European super league idea.

[Del]

European Super League? Bring it on.

The sooner all these clubs ###### off to some antiseptic, hermetically-sealed, no relegation no promotion, satellite TV only never-never land, the happier I'd be.

[Patrick]

Folks, any thoughts on the World Cup playoffs? As an Irishman I'm quietly optimistic that we can sneak a result against the French...

[The Fatadder]

Folks, any thoughts on the World Cup playoffs? As an Irishman I'm quietly optimistic that we can sneak a result against the French...

 

As ever for the international break I just hope that all of Arsenal's players make it through in one piece.....

Strangely despite following the sport at a club level since I was little, I just dont give a dam about the national team (to the point of disliking internationals for getting in the way of club football)

Yet I will watch England at practically any other sport (including Rugby & Cricket where tbh internationals have a much bigger impact on teams at club level)

[S.A.C Martin]

Ferguson gets touchline ban

 

Am I the only person in the world who knew exactly what Ferguson meant when he said Wiley wasn't fit?

 

He clearly meant not fit to referee, not "physically fit" which is what he has claimed it was to cover his back. I listened to a repeat of his post match tirade on sky sports the day it happened and it was appalling he could get away with that.

 

In my opinion, a 10 match ban from the touchline would have been quite sufficient. The abuse referees get is nothing short of soul destroying for the few who are still refereeing the nation's game, and it needed to be nipped in the bud. This hasn't helped, I fear.

[The Fatadder]

Ferguson gets touchline ban

 

 

In my opinion, a 10 match ban from the touchline would have been quite sufficient. The abuse referees get is nothing short of soul destroying for the few who are still refereeing the nation's game, and it needed to be nipped in the bud. This hasn't helped, I fear.

 

The bit I really dont get is that he (Furgurson) has been given 2 match bans for pretty much the same thing umpteen times before, yet this time they award a 4 match ban but suspend 2 of them. Surely the past has shown that 2 match bans arnt doing anything to stop him........

[Red Devil]

Ferguson gets touchline ban

 

Am I the only person in the world who knew exactly what Ferguson meant when he said Wiley wasn't fit?

 

He clearly meant not fit to referee, not "physically fit" which is what he has claimed it was to cover his back. I listened to a repeat of his post match tirade on sky sports the day it happened and it was appalling he could get away with that.

 

In my opinion, a 10 match ban from the touchline would have been quite sufficient. The abuse referees get is nothing short of soul destroying for the few who are still refereeing the nation's game, and it needed to be nipped in the bud. This hasn't helped, I fear.

 

Seemingly you are. All about opinions and mine will obviously differ widely to yours. I feel SAF was over the top with his comments on Wiley, but what would you prefer a sterile comment, lets face it Fergies comments will always stir things up because of who he is and who he manages, but that's what the game needs and thrives on. I suppose he was wrong to criticise the referee against Chelsea for what in my opinion was a bloody awful display. These referees are now full time professionals, if they can't take criticism they shouldn't be doing the job, a player makes a mistake and they are castigated, a manager makes a mistake, likewise, like it or not they are part of as multi million pound business and if you cock up you're going to get stick.

 

For all his faults, and there are more than one or two, I'll take Fergie and his outspoken nature over any bland counterpart, spats I just love it, oh hang on that sounds like another Fergie wind up.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....lets face it Fergies comments will always stir things up because of who he is and who he manages....

I quite agree.

Plenty of other managers have made strong comments or critised referees and it's a storm in a teacup, even when it's a high profile manager like Benitez or Wenger; but when the manager with highest profile of all does it, then it's a lovely juicy story for the tabloids to feed on.

Of course I think SAF should show a little more dignity on occasion, but he clearly is a passionate manager and he does have a right to an opinion like anyone else.

However, I have to say 8 times out of 10 his comments are often taken out of context and twisted for best journalistic effect. You can see this quite frequently when a seemingly inocuous comment at his weekly press conference is picked up and made into something it never was.

 

He was wrong to make the comments about Wiley (...and I also thought he meant not fit to do the job ), but it's hardly the crime of the century. Mind you, the Ref was half way back up the field when he should have awarded a clear penalty to Utd in that match and he did seem to be struggling. Still, he didn't half make up for it on his next Premiership outing though.

 

My father in law is a referee and quite active in the association. He's always muttering about how something has to be done about Ferguson. About what for goodness sake, I ask him? I never get a straight answer. IMHO, there's clearly an attitude towards this particular manager in the FA RA, justified or not.

There have been rumblings that certain high ranking individuals have been stirring this one for a while.

 

.

[S.A.C Martin]

In my spare time I'm a referee too - it goes both ways! Should I not have the right of response to an over zealous manager? As far as the Referee's Association and FA are concerned, I don't get one...

 

For the record, Wenger/Redknapp/Benitez/Alladyce/etc, if not most of the top division would be on my hit list for managers who need to be told to firmly "shut up" with regards refereeing. It's cause and effect: managers build pressure up to a game so and wonder why the referees are nervous/make mistakes/etc.

 

In the case of that match, Wiley was shown to be physically fit - seemingly more than some of the United midfielders, given his distance covered on the pitch in comparison to them! And while he did miss a penalty claim for United, there was also a counter claim down in the United penalty box which went unheeded too.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't pleasant for those trying to do their jobs, and Fergie (whatever his accomplishments have been) should be more respectful of that. I'll quote from the article:

 

Peter Griffiths QC, chairman of the FA's four-man regulatory commission, said: "Each member of the commission recognised Sir Alex Ferguson's achievements and stature within the game".

 

"Having said that, it was made clear to Sir Alex that with such stature comes increased responsibilities".

 

"The commission considered his admitted remarks, in the context in which they were made, were not just improper but were grossly improper and wholly inappropriate. He should never have said what he did say."

 

Hits the nail on the head for me - because he's a successful manager he should know better and therefore be more respectful. I can't imagine any referee coming out with "he's not fit to manage" just because Sir Alex has spent 90 minutes on the touchline mouthing off at him, and then getting away with said comments...

[BoD]

It seems funny that some managers only have a pop at the referee when their teams lose. It most be those selective spectacles they all wear.

 

I totallly agre with S.A.C. above. Statements before the match designed to pressure the refs such as, 'He will be influenced by the crowd and favour them' should be banned completely. Let managers play their mind games with each other but to bring the ref into it is unfair.

[Steve K]

Ferguson gets touchline ban

 

Am I the only person in the world who knew exactly what Ferguson meant when he said Wiley wasn't fit?

 

He clearly meant not fit to referee, not "physically fit" which is what he has claimed it was to cover his back. I listened to a repeat of his post match tirade on sky sports the day it happened and it was appalling he could get away with that.

I thought he was complaining that Wiley couldn't keep up with play, and claiming that he was taking 30 seconds to book players so he could get his breath back? If that's not a personal attack on Wiley's physical fitness, I don't know what it is.

 

Of course, referees should be open to (reasonable) criticism, just like everyone else. When Ferguson complained about a couple of decisions after the Chelsea game, I thought he was pushing his luck, given that this other case was hanging over him, but generally, I'd defend a manager's right to have a brief moan about whatever they like. On the other hand, with Sir Alex, it's always someone else's fault when his team doesn't win!

 

The attack on Wiley, however, was close to questioning his very integrity, which is not on at all. Mind you, Wayne Rooney came even closer to that with his "twelve men" comment, for which he was warned about his future conduct. How many times has he been warned about his future conduct now, I wonder, and when does the future beocome the present? Hmm...

 

Anyhow, come on Ireland for this weekend - stick it to those Frenchies!

[Red Devil]

In my spare time I'm a referee too - it goes both ways! Should I not have the right of response to an over zealous manager? As far as the Referee's Association and FA are concerned, I don't get one...

 

For the record, Wenger/Redknapp/Benitez/Alladyce/etc, if not most of the top division would be on my hit list for managers who need to be told to firmly "shut up" with regards refereeing. It's cause and effect: managers build pressure up to a game so and wonder why the referees are nervous/make mistakes/etc.

 

In the case of that match, Wiley was shown to be physically fit - seemingly more than some of the United midfielders, given his distance covered on the pitch in comparison to them! And while he did miss a penalty claim for United, there was also a counter claim down in the United penalty box which went unheeded too.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't pleasant for those trying to do their jobs, and Fergie (whatever his accomplishments have been) should be more respectful of that. I'll quote from the article:

 

 

 

Hits the nail on the head for me - because he's a successful manager he should know better and therefore be more respectful. I can't imagine any referee coming out with "he's not fit to manage" just because Sir Alex has spent 90 minutes on the touchline mouthing off at him, and then getting away with said comments...

 

Well, aside from the fact that as as a paid up member of the Refs union you're going to side with them on this, of course referees should have a right of reply, in fact I'd be more than happy if they actually came out and explained some of their idiosyncratic decisions, but in the main they don't and seemingly sit there in happy isolation, then we get to listen to rent a quote ex refs explaining their take on it via sky sports and it's hyperbole, as was stated earlier storm in a tea cup.

 

Yep, SAF went to far with his comments, yes it probably was used as a deflection, but are referees beyond criticism?

[Steve K]

Yep, SAF went to far with his comments, yes it probably was used as a deflection, but are referees beyond criticism?

Of course they are not, but there should be clear limits on what is acceptable. Frankly, I've always thought that post-match interviews were a bad idea: whether the team has just won or lost, passions are likely to be high, and managers (like the rest of us!) say things they later regret.

[wollastonblue]

Referee's should hold an interview at the end of the game and explain their decisions, before the managers can vent their opinions on the game. SAF was out of order with his comments. SAF, should take leaf out of Neil Warnocks book who won't say anything now about referees.

 

Take our manager Alex McLeish, handled his interview over that outrageous penalty on Monday with perfect decorum. He didn't rant or rave about it in public, but just plainly said "if he looks back at the penalty, he will realise he got the decision wrong".

 

Questioning someones ability to the job in public is uncalled for. SAF ought to take up his concerns with proper authorities, and not use Sky Sports to bring them up.

 

The RESPECT campaign the FA are running clearly left it's mark with SAF. So along with dealing with managers comments on Refs, can we get something done about the cheats in the game?

 

 

[Temeraire]

You can keep all your premiership prima-donnas and whingers as well as the overated jock teams as far as Im concerned, myself, my son and my dad are off to Brentford tomorrow to see the Lions win away! (hopefully)

[D6975]

 

 

The RESPECT campaign the FA are running clearly left it's mark with SAF. So along with dealing with managers comments on Refs, can we get something done about the cheats in the game?

 

 

 

 

The recent Fulham European game had a classic example of blatant cheating. For those who didn't see it, a player went writhing around in apparent agony because his studs had contacted with a Fulham player's knee. The result was the Fulham player being sent off. On the replay it was all too obvious, as was the fact that the ref didn't see the incident clearly.

 

ps I'm a Liverpool fan, 'nuff said.

[Red Devil]

They berate and banish Sir Alex Ferguson for a stupid comment about a slightly chubby referee and cravenly ignore all the good the Manchester United manager has done, all the glory he has brought to English football, all the talent he has helped mould for the cause of St George.

 

So who do you want influencing football? Pen-pushers or Treble-winners?

 

 

Ferguson's verdict on Alan Wiley's fitness was undoubtedly insulting and iniquitous. Referees, even those like Wiley slightly lacking sleekness, deserve respect. The alternative is mayhem in the opinion-forming playgrounds of the Premier League and subsequent anarchy in the UK schoolyards.

 

Those brought up to bow at the altar of "the referee is always right even when he is blatantly wrong'' cannot tolerate Ferguson's stance.

 

The belittling of officials is a widespread modern curse that needs combating. Even Fabio Capello ambushed the referee in the tunnel in Dnepropetrovsk, raging about decisions against England, using language that would make Ferguson blush. Did the FA call Capello to account? No chance.

 

"As the senior statesman Fergie should be setting an example,'' reflected an England supporter. "A lot of young managers look up to him, but any other manager probably would not have been punished so harshly. The FA have got to be more consistent really. Players abuse the officials weekly.'' And escape.

 

The case against Ferguson lacks perspective. It is like hounding Barack Obama for double-parking outside the White House. The FA must see the bigger picture with Ferguson.

 

This is an individual whose managerial feats have been worth tens of millions of pounds to his rivals, raising the Premier League's coefficient to permit a fourth side into the Champions League.

 

At the risk of straying further into Monty Python territory, what has Ferguson ever done for English football? Well, this is a leader of men who has built on David Moyes's fine work at Everton to nurture Wayne Rooney into England's one saving grace.

 

This is the club boss who could supply more than half of England's starting XI in Ben Foster, Wes Brown, Rio Ferdinand, Michael Carrick, Owen Hargreaves and Rooney, let alone cultivating Ravel Morrison as a potential gem for 2014.

 

Better than Kieran Gibbs and Jack Wilshere, certainly up there with Jack Rodwell, if Morrison does emerge as the pre-eminent English footballer of his generation, it will be because of a certain Scot's shrewd guidance.

 

I can't remember the last time the FA acknowledged Ferguson's role in shaping England's present or future.

 

Crassly imitating a scene from Swift, Lilliputian no-names attempt to bring down a giant of the game. The cast of pygmies includes Alan Leighton, a rep from referees' union Prospect, an unknown organisation in football until its pushy principal began piggybacking on Ferguson's fame.

 

Apparently, Prospect represents referees. So Leighton will know that Ferguson was the first manager to inquire after Mark Halsey's health.

 

It is the inconsistency of individuals such as Leighton that is particularly galling. Ferguson makes a mistake and gets pilloried. Leighton's members make shocking errors, ignoring beach-balls and bad challenges, yet the Prospect chief stays silent.

 

The FA seems to have been swayed by a union man stamping his feet and spouting off on the airwaves. Football would be better place if a wise owl such as Ferguson, for all his acerbic outbursts, was advising the FA and its hordes of amateurs on how to run the game.

 

In a land where many FA types just worry about guaranteeing their free tickets to Wembley every year, Ferguson plots how to take his team there again and again. Ferguson contributes so much to the game that the FA fails to note.

 

England's most important player, Rooney, rallied to his manager's defence yesterday, detailing why Ferguson should be cherished.

 

"First of all the trophies he's won,'' began Rooney, "and the type of football he wants you to play ??“ attacking football all the time. Sometimes you feel you can't do it but he keeps you going. At his age [67], he still wants to win all the time. That's incredible to see.''

 

Ferguson should show more respect to referees ??“ and football should show more respect to Ferguson.

 

Best thing I've seen written on the whole subject, c&p from a united forum? Nope, from possibly the best writer on the game at the moment, Henry Winter.