Stoker Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 My collection really desperately needs at least one of these, yet the only RTR model available is, for lack of better words, awful. The ride height looks wrong, the front windows look wrong, the detail is clunky, and I can only hope it runs better than it looks. And at over 70 quid, for what looks to me like a Poole factory tooling, is just disgusting. I think it's about time we all started asking Bachfar to retool the class 25, and bring it up to today's standards. Anyone agree? Are there any alternatives? Anything that can be done with this model to make it more accurate? Any other manufacturers announcing one? Regards, Scott. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 I think it's about time we all started asking Bachfar to retool the class 25, and bring it up to today's standards. No harm in asking but I think it's only a matter of time. Their class 24 means there is a newer chassis which has uses, so it may well be in their plans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 16, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2010 It is a Poole era tooling hence why it looks like one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
n-gauge Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 The front of the loco, particularly the recessed windows, let the model down. Even when launched (around 1987ish?) it looked odd compared to other locos released in the 80s. The 33 managed flush glazing, so why not the 25?. Just imagine how deeply recessed the glass would be if the model was scaled up to full size - about 18 inches! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted December 16, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2010 No harm in asking but I think it's only a matter of time. Their class 24 means there is a newer chassis which has uses, so it may well be in their plans. Then we can all rethread the maze that is the Derby Type 2, but this time in N gauge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Then we can all rethread the maze that is the Derby Type 2, but this time in N gauge I've been led to believe in the past that the class 25 is something of a minefield when it comes to detail differences. One of the things I love about N is that a lot of mistakes that would be noticeable in 00 aren't really visible, but I do still hope they get it spot on like they have with their other recent releases. At this stage I'd be happy with something 25 shaped, rather than the melted-looking version that we have at the moment. Like others have said I think it's probably in the pipeline, but it does still make me a little bit sick to see this model in recently released train sets. Regards, Scott. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
n-gauge Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 There are alternatives - Worsley loco works make a kit, although I understand that there is quite a high skill level needed http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_diesel_locomotives.htm or It's N gauge make a resin body which can be supplied from unpainted right up to a RTR loco. http://www.its-n-gauge.co.uk/class25.1.html No connection with either company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Both those are the early style body rather than the later pattern (poorly) depicted by the Farish model. The basic shape is reasonably good, but not only is the detail poor, much of it is in the wrong places, at the wrong height or just wrong! One reason I never did a detail kit for it. Basically the instructions would say: file off all the detail, cut the doorways out and stick all these new parts for everything on in the right places... Oh, and there's a chunk omitted from the bogie frames too, which accentuates the gap. The new pattern chassis runs well though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I have one of the Bachmann versions with the first Chinese style chassis, and while it is unquestionably crude and "clunky" next to the exquisite new Class 24, the mechanism is it's real atrength. With it's big open-frame skew wound motor ans twin flywheels it is smooth powerful and controllable down to a barely perceptible crawl. Although the newer can-motor type chassis is in a different league in terms of detail, lighting, DCC readiness etc, for me the earlier Bachmann chassis still has the edge in terms of performance. I will bow to those who know better than me on the actual accuracy of the model. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerhillboy Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Hope you don't mind me posting these but I tried to improve the standard GF poole version, how much I've managed to do so is up for debate but I do think its an improvement Wire handrails, buffer beam detailing, liquid glazing, wipers, proper cab side window divider etc I think I tried to lower it a bit as well if I recall but I think in these pictures the body is on slightly squint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerhillboy Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Again speaking of Worsley, if you are not ready to wait for Farish to retool the current offering you could give them a try. Its definitely a quality kit. Here's a finished version of a class 24 built from that kit, but I'd think a similar standard class 25 could be built. I had great help from a talented friend who put together the body and manually formed the dome roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted December 17, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2010 There are alternatives - Worsley loco works make a kit, although I understand that there is quite a high skill level needed http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_diesel_locomotives.htm or It's N gauge make a resin body which can be supplied from unpainted right up to a RTR loco. http://www.its-n-gauge.co.uk/class25.1.html No connection with either company. Alan of etched pixels does various conversion packs for the class 24 and class 25 - Looking at Alan's 24/1 conversion, one wonders if you could get a decent 25 using the 24 as a base... Personally, I have been awaiting a new 25 for what seems ages now...I was kind of hoping that when Bachmann took over Farish they would first upgrade all the existing fleet, but I guess they have had to twin track this with all the new releases too. When you are ready Bachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 I remember there being a superb looking Class 24 on Chee Tor - does anyone know what the basis for that one was? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 I'm not 100% sure, but I know the etches they had made for Chee Tor, which was primarily for bridges and other architectural items, did include the grilles for a 24/25*. Quite possibly they were used to modify the Farish model to the earlier Derby type 2. * I know I'm lumping the two together here, but I am aware that the later 'old style' 25s had subtly differently layered grilles from the 24/0, 24/1 and 25/0 bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 You can do a 25/0 very easily from the Farish 24 as its basically a 24/1 externally - so headcode boxes, nose and minor roof tweaks. In fact fixing the Farish roof errors which you need to do for the 24/0 as well is the harder bit. From the 25/1 onwards the cabs are subtly different (which could be fixed fairly easily) and the cab doors are recessed. I've etched myself a few cab doors to try this some day when I have time and there are cheap blue 24's around again. You'd want to check prototypes so you picked one with matching bodyside grilles but there are plenty that did. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 I remember there being a superb looking Class 24 on Chee Tor - does anyone know what the basis for that one was? Probably Langley given the time period. The Langley 24 has all the usual limitations of white metal - but with etched grillework and the window pillars filed down its a very nice kit and unlike the old Heritage-N one had the grilles in just the right places and the right depth plus pretty much the right shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Well, just ad detail to them They are great little runners ,flush glazing isnt hard ,as isnt the quart cab windows. I think these farish 25's are great but just with a little added detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hi chaps. As someone fairly new to this I'm probably teaching you all to suck eggs but I thought I'd share some advice I'd recieved about the 25 in case it helps anyone. Following this thread I emailed Etched Pixels on here who has been very helpful. Apparantly Farish make a 24/0 and he makes an etch to convert it to a 24/1 which is externally identical to a 25/0. So this is one way of getting a modern 25. Apparantly to make a 25/1 requires a bit more effort. HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks Tom - I too have had exchanges with Alan of EP about this and I think this is the route I might go to allow me to get my 25080 which I need for my layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Pete - maybe we can post some photos when we start so we can compare progress! Mind you having not built anything more complex than a wagon kit I may stick to a 25/0. May not be strictly correct for Cornwall but I think it'll do for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2011 I may stick to a 25/0. May not be strictly correct for Cornwall but I think it'll do for me. Tom - Unless I have confused my understanding of a 25/0, then this is the one I will be making for my layout...Liskeard...1976....clay hoods....suits me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2011 Tom - Unless I have confused my understanding of a 25/0, then this is the one I will be making for my layout...Liskeard...1976....clay hoods....suits me Gonna take a rain check on that one - Alan of EP has corrected me that 25080 is infact a 25/1...serves me right for making assumptions I may have a go at trying to inject some life into 25155 in the meantime...a tart up of the existing Farish model. Bryn Davies started to do that and it was looking better already - check this for inspiration... Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hi Pete, That's a 25/1 (despite the number - 25/0 run from 25001-25). These have the earlier pattern of grilles, similar to the Cl.24, but the cabs have recessed doors and the combined headcode box/horns like the later bodied 25s. The Farish 25, though the later pattern, incorrectly has flush doors. You could make an approximation by combining the cab roof from the Poole Farish with the Bachfar Cl.24 and cut a square recess and make new recessed doors. The side grilles are slightly deceptive; at first glance they appear to be the same as the 24 (& 25/0) but the grille vanes actually sit slightly behind the bodyside panelling with a raised surround, whereas the earlier locos the grille vanes are one layer out with a surround added to that. Look at these close-ups from the BarkingBill site 24 & 25/0 compared to later 25 and you might be able to make this out. Interestingly the old 1970s Hornby 25 was correct in this respect which meant that all those Cl.24 conversions done in the '70s/'80s weren't quite right! The tanks are done differently too, again more like the Poole 25, though those are the boilerless locos, so no water tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If I was a betting man, I lay good money on the bells and whistles 24 morphing into a 25/1 and 25/3 in the not too distant future. No doubt just as all the above projects are being finished off. Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thanks Bernard - I recall from previous conversations we had before on this, using the existing Farish 25 as a basis would require so much cut and removal that it was almost worth starting afresh. The graft of the 24 and 25 sounds a possibility though. Pix - Yep...but if you are at a loose end sometime and itching to do a few test etches, I am in the queue for them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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