Adrian's Coach Works

[Adrian Wintle]

I finally decided to get around to taking photos of the lineup of in-progress coaches. I really should finish some of them.

 

Note that some of them need to be stripped and repainted (mostly due to the rubbish efforts of the painter the first time ). In some cases I was experimenting with different paints and they reacted badly with one another.

 

Note that I don't tend to build the coaches to the full detail that could be done since they are for exhibition running on Bridge Street and will mostly be seen in motion on the express lines. This means that they get handled a fair amount, so being robust and not shedding details is an asset.

 

First we have an overview of the coach works storage sidings

 

The first coach is an A19 Van First (ex-articulated stock). This is a Hornby Collett with Hammond sides, and still needs a fair bit of work.

 

The next is an A18 Corridor First (ex-articulated stock). This is a cut and shut of a couple of Hornby Colletts, although I may redo it with the Hammond sides I have in stock. It desperately needs a repaint.

 

Then we have the corresponding C72 Corridor Third (ex-articulated stock). It is a cut and shut of the bits left over from the coach above, and also needs repainting.

 

Here we have a better effort - a C73 corridor third from a Comet kit. It is still missing the end handrails and buffer heads, but is otherwise done.

 

The next is an E153 Brake Compo using Comet sides on a Replica/Bachmann Brake Compo. It needs glazing and some interior detailing.

 

Hiding in the back we have a D83 70' Van Third, built with Comet sides on the guts of an MAJ kit. It is in the shop for underframe work (the MAJ plastic is rubbish) and new bogies. Somewhere in a box are the bits to make a D84 (similar, but the other hand).

 

An H27 Restaurant Composite is next - a Comet kit. The strange thing on the roof is the gas cylinder assembly. I wanted something lighter than the white metal Comet castings, so the cylinders are made with plastic tubing and pop rivet heads.

 

Now we go onto a longer term project - a replica of a Centenary set in 1935 livery. The first coach is a Comet kit of the H43 Restaurant First.

 

Next we have two bodies built with Comet sides on Airfix Centenary donors. In the foreground is the H44 Dining Third and in the background is one of the C69 Corridor Thirds (ultimately there will be three).

 

Now for something completely different. A representation of a C23 10-compartment Third. This is the passenger sections of two Triang Brake Thirds, with the bogies from a Hornby Clerestory. It comes out almost 2 scale feet too long, and the bogies are in the wrong place (the second will be fixed). But it should look ok running with shorter coaches.

 

Here is a standard Triang Second sitting on 247 Developments bogies. Ignore the paint scheme.

 

The next two picturs show a Hornby Clerestory in the process of being converted to a C14 Lavatory Composite using Bettabitz/247 Developments sides/ends.

 

The final coach is a C46 70' Corridor Third from a Comet kit.

 

And just for a change, here is the Hornby Lord of the Isles modified and renamed to Storm King. It has a Gibson dome and safety valve cover, Gibson bogie wheels (closer to size - I used 3'11" wheels IIRC), modified bogie attachment to allow for the larger wheels, modified tender attachment, Gibson tender wheels, and a Falcon Miniatures crew.

 

I hope you found this interesting.

 

Edit to add missing coach diagrams.

 

Adrian

[Blue Max]

This post reminded me of the A.F.Hammond etched products. It is a shame that the range is no longer available, although I am sure that quite a lot of diagrams are now available from other suppliers. Looking through my old Hammond lists there were a few unusual coaches that I do not believe have ever been made by other manufacrers, in particular the Hull and Barnsley Railway bogie coaches amongst a few other GWR designs.

I always think it is such a sad loss when artworks and masters for old kit ranges dissapear from the market.

[gwrrob]

Fabulous work Adrian.Another RMweb coachbuilder,perhaps there should be a guild we could join. I do like the centenary diners and your find the interiors take longer to build than the rest put together.

[coachmann]

Nice to see these, and yes some interiors are a bummer. Tony Hammond and I were good friends, even so I hadn't realized just how much he had produced.....The ex Artic coaches for instance.

[Adrian Wintle]

Nice to see these, and yes some interiors are a bummer. Tony Hammond and I were good friends, even so I hadn't realized just how much he had produced.....The ex Artic coaches for instance.

 

I got the Hammond sides in a job lot - it was the first time I'd seen them.

 

Along with the A18 and A19 sides, I have an F14 Toplight Slip, a G59 Special Saloon, an H41 Buffet, and an H38 Restaurant Composite. The one thing they don't have is droplights (either separate or etched).

 

One of the things I've been thinking about is one of the artic restaurant triple sets. I'm pretty sure I can cut and shut a reasonable representation of one from six Hornby Collett restaurants.

 

Adrian

[Coach bogie]

Be careful if you are using Tony Hammond's artic sides. It may not apply to all but the toilet windows are missing on my etches. I too new Tony well and I got the impression they were all like that. However all was not lost as he let me have a set of etching for the A18/9 and I removed one compartment from each (a direct reversal of what Swindon did).

 

I do miss Tony at shows and the etches. I am lucky enough to have a full TPO train courtesy of the Hammond range and I have just finished a H38 diner from his etches.

 

Tony intended to produce the entire artic train but only the first twins had been produced when he packed up.

 

Though never advertised to my knowledge BSL produced a full artic train. I was lucky enough to get one of the remaining sets when Ron Coleman of BSL died. The entire range of BSL including the artics and other 'non advertised' GWR coaches are listed with Southern Coaches. They just do not appear to be intersted in selling them to anyone.

 

http://www.srg.org.uk/Phoenix_GWR.htm

 

The late Carl Legg(CPL Models) now run by his widow, also produces the diner triplets as etches though they are quite expensive when compared to similar etched offerings.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Mallard60022]

What a great collection. I really admire those Comet Centenaries; they are not easy (clever design though ).

Having had some GWR coaches to tackle in the last six months or so and with quite a few more now appearing on the scene I have had to start researching GWR stuff. Really interesting but a bit sad as I come from Devon but have little knowledge of stock as I really only used to watch the loco's when I was a kid.

I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.

I've only got experience of Comet M's GWR kits but it would be interesting to tackle another firm's product just for comparison.

Sincerely, 36E

[Adrian Wintle]

What a great collection. I really admire those Comet Centenaries; they are not easy (clever design though ).

Having had some GWR coaches to tackle in the last six months or so and with quite a few more now appearing on the scene I have had to start researching GWR stuff. Really interesting but a bit sad as I come from Devon but have little knowledge of stock as I really only used to watch the loco's when I was a kid.

I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.

I've only got experience of Comet M's GWR kits but it would be interesting to tackle another firm's product just for comparison.

Sincerely, 36E

 

If you want an interesting build, try one of the Slaters toplight coaches. The only really complex bit is building the bogies, otherwise they are a relatively simple (but well detailed) plastic kit with lost-wax brass details.

 

My latest build is a Coopercraft (Mailcoach) P16 Monster - mostly done in a day. I'll get some pics and comments up shortly.

 

Adrian

[Adrian Wintle]

Though never advertised to my knowledge BSL produced a full artic train. I was lucky enough to get one of the remaining sets when Ron Coleman of BSL died. The entire range of BSL including the artics and other 'non advertised' GWR coaches are listed with Sothern Coaches. They just do not appear to be intersted in selling them to anyone.

 

Thanks Mike;

 

I had seen those, but I could never figure out how to sensibly order them (or even if it really was possible to do so). I'm really not that impressed with the BSL kits I've done (I don't think punched aluminium is a particularly good medium), so I really didn't pursue it.

 

I did notice that 247 Developments does the articulation bogies.

 

Adrian

[Coach bogie]

Completely forgot. Worsley Works are now producing the entire GWR Artic train in brass.

 

http://www.worsleywo...4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

Allen Doherty is another trader who does not shout about his 4mm products (he also produces a GWR 42XX in 4mm) being better known for his 3mm items.

 

They are sold as sides, ends and floor in individual formations at £76.50 for the 3 cars and £51.00 for the first twins or £190 for the entire set.

 

His web site is well worth a look as he is prepared to produce his extensive 3mm GWR range in 4mm, as the site says - why not ask?

 

247 do produce the correct bogies. All mine are running on either 247 bogies or Larryparts (produced by Coachmann) though I understand they are both from Larry's masters (unless someone knows different). If you do purchase the 247 8'6" bogies there is a matching 7' bogie to go with it that has the same square spring hangers. Beware as there are two different 7' bogies in the range.

 

The Lima syphon seen in one of your shots can also run on the 8'6" bogie as after the artic sets were rebuilt the bogies were redeployed, some on the later syphon G's.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Barry Ten]

If you want an interesting build, try one of the Slaters toplight coaches. The only really complex bit is building the bogies, otherwise they are a relatively simple (but well detailed) plastic kit with lost-wax brass details.

 

How did you get on with the bogies, Adrian? I took care with assembling mine, ensuring that the bearings and springing functioned as intended, but my conclusion is that they just don't work. They're not only not free-running, with the axles running in internal bearings, but my experience is that the design of the springing system not only makes them derailment-prone, but difficult to build in rigid format if that's your preference. I built the American and the Dean variants and neither run well, so I've decided to bin them and use rigid bogies instead. I've never had as many problems with rigid bogies (even using Gibsons or Ultrascale wheels) as I have with the Slaters design. Granted, I'm modelling in 00... but does the springing work any more reliably in P4?

[Coach bogie]

I share Barry Ten's problems with the Slater's bogies. Enough was enough and I replaced them with 247 bogies, which, being total cast, have the added advantage of additional weight low down where it is needed and much more free running.

 

I never understood why Slater's produced the toplights they did being duplications of the Blacksmith/Mallard range, when there was a wide range of toplights that, at the time, no one was producing.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Adrian Wintle]

I've also decided that the Slaters bogies, while beautiful pieces of modelling art, need to be replaced on the coaches that are going to run. The difficulty I have is finding 8' American bogies (9' ones are easy, with all sorts of sources) or 6'4" Dean bogies (again, 8'6" ones are easy - 247 Developments being my favourite for a rigid OO one).

 

Thanks for the mention of Worsley Works.

 

The blue Lima Siphon is awaiting a repaint, then likely put onto a set of the various 9' bogies I have lying around. The older Airfix/Hornby Siphons are slowly being converted using Coopercraft 9' American bogies.

 

Adrian

[Mike G]

... but does the springing work any more reliably in P4?

 

Ohh Yes! For years I built the MJT torsion bar bogie's for my coaches. Then, Bill Bedford and Ted Scannel developed the sprung bogie with secondary suspension. When Newport had 'Belle Vue' we ran a 5 car Birmingham local that had, at the time, all MJT's under it, damn thing fell off all over the place never the same coach and never in the same place. After really close examination of the bogies, we felt that it was the way that the springs in the holding clip was applying an uneven force on the bogie. If you took the bogies off the track it would flop to one side as if being sent there and there was definitely a force being applied as it would always return to the same position no matter what was done...enter the BB bogies. Expensive by comparison, just as easy to put together, but what a transformation of a set of coaches. They did not bump along, they, well, glided, that's the only way I can describe it. The 5 car set never gave another problem apart from wheels going out of gauge and that's only after they were cleaned...so to be expected really. The coaches in question were a Bachmann set of suburban's.

For what it's worth, in my opinion, springing or secondary suspension on any coach is the only way to go, the improvement in road holding and impression of 'smooth ride' are well worth the effort. I know others will disagree with this, but this is what I have found in my little sphere of experience.

 

regards

 

Mike

[Barry Ten]

 

For what it's worth, in my opinion, springing or secondary suspension on any coach is the only way to go, the improvement in road holding and impression of 'smooth ride' are well worth the effort. I know others will disagree with this, but this is what I have found in my little sphere of experience.

 

regards

 

Mike

 

I don't doubt your experience, Mike - and having seen long trains running at decent speed on the current Newport layout (the one that was at the Bristol show a year or two back?), it's clear that you gents have made the system work reliably. I just don't have the willpower or engineering mindset to persevere with things if they don't work pretty reliably to begin with, though- I usually end up making things worse rather than better...

 

As it happens I have also ordered 247 cast bogies to go under my toplights, which I hope will transform them from shelf queens to models that actually earn their keep...

[Barry Ten]

I've also decided that the Slaters bogies, while beautiful pieces of modelling art, need to be replaced on the coaches that are going to run. The difficulty I have is finding 8' American bogies (9' ones are easy, with all sorts of sources) or 6'4" Dean bogies (again, 8'6" ones are easy - 247 Developments being my favourite for a rigid OO one).

 

Thanks for the mention of Worsley Works.

 

The blue Lima Siphon is awaiting a repaint, then likely put onto a set of the various 9' bogies I have lying around. The older Airfix/Hornby Siphons are slowly being converted using Coopercraft 9' American bogies.

 

Adrian

 

I forget which American bogies are (or were) supplied with the Ian Kirk Monster kit? They were fairly basic mouldings, if I remember rightly but OK in a pinch.

[Coach bogie]

K's and PC both produced the 8ft American. They are quite crude by todays casting standards but be cleaned up and detailed with footboards etc.

 

They crop up from time to time on eBay

 

Mike Wiltshire

[exet1095]

You can get 8' American bogies in etched brass and whitemetal from Blacksmith or beautiful whitemetal ones from David Geen. Both run well, and the Geen ones give good weight low-down. The latter have no mounts for tension locks so if that's what you use (which I do) you have to make one with a bit of waste brass.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

[Adrian Wintle]

I forget which American bogies are (or were) supplied with the Ian Kirk Monster kit? They were fairly basic mouldings, if I remember rightly but OK in a pinch.

 

Those are the Coopercraft bogies I mentioned. They are 9' bogies and nead a lot of cleanup (but they are cheap).

 

Adrian

[Adrian Wintle]

You can get 8' American bogies in etched brass and whitemetal from Blacksmith or beautiful whitemetal ones from David Geen. Both run well, and the Geen ones give good weight low-down. The latter have no mounts for tension locks so if that's what you use (which I do) you have to make one with a bit of waste brass.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

The new proprietors of Blacksmith don't list parts, and neither the Blacksmith or David Geen websites are particularly friendly looking for ordering from/shipping to the colonies. I may have to try the David Geen bogies, though.

 

I don't worry about tension locks - my coaching stock either uses Fleischmann Profi couplers (frequently in Keen mechanisms) or Kadees.

 

Adrian

[Coach bogie]

I have just been speaking to David Geen. I cannot believe I forgot he produced both 8ft and 9ft Americans. Sorry Dave

 

He has a very friendly and international service. When I was at his house last week he was packing large parcels for Norway, North America and Australia. He even supplies components for one of the Australian producers. If you ever need anything from High level models he can supply them as well as 'funky' from high level also lives local and David produces his castings for him.

 

There is a long story regarding the website which so far has taken two years not to sort but hopefully soon.

 

Drop him an email. All parts from any of his loco, coach and wagon kits are available separate if you ask and he also has an encyclopaedic knowledge of all Swindon coaches. He has just starting preparing a brass kit for the clerestory TPO preserved in Cornwall.

 

The email address below works

 

sales@davidgeen.co.uk

 

regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

 

 

 

.

The new proprietors of Blacksmith don't list parts, and neither the Blacksmith or David Geen websites are particularly friendly looking for ordering from/shipping to the colonies. I may have to try the David Geen bogies, though.

 

I don't worry about tension locks - my coaching stock either uses Fleischmann Profi couplers (frequently in Keen mechanisms) or Kadees.

 

Adrian

[Mikkel]

The new proprietors of Blacksmith don't list parts, and neither the Blacksmith or David Geen websites are particularly friendly looking for ordering from/shipping to the colonies. I may have to try the David Geen bogies, though.

 

Hi Adrian, only just found this thread - good to see the stock on here

 

Very interested to learn about the Slater's bogies. I have been meaning to build some of the clerestories for quite some time, so it looks like I will also be in the market for buy-in bogies.

 

I've recently been ordering things from David Geen and was also a little sceptical judging by the website, but it has worked out well. I expect he is often at shows during weekends, but mid-week seems fine for e-mail communication.

[Barry Ten]

I've just spent an enjoyable couple of hours building, installing and painting a pair of 247 bogies under one of my toplights. They fit well onto the existing bogie mounting arrangement and the result (after hacking a little more clearance away from the underframe detail, which is otherwise hidden) is - at last - smooth running, reliably tracking coach. I've one more toplight to convert, and then I may think about building a couple more.

[Adrian Wintle]

The next project is a bit of an attempt to produce a silk purse out of a sows ear...

 

It is a GWR H41 'Quick Lunch' Buffet car. Ihad a set of Hammond sides lying around, so I looked around for a donor coach for them to be used with. I found an old Hornby LMS coach which was both the correct length and had flat ends. Add some Bachmann 9' bogies, a few Comet bits, some random underframe bits from the spares bin, and a bit of plastikard for the interior and you come up with this:

 

Here is the interior in the remains of the Hornby coach:

 

The corridor (passenger) side with the sides just lying on the body:

 

The non-corridor (working) side:

 

There are a number of pictures of the corridor side and the interior, as well as a floor plan, in Russell's Appendix 2, but I did have a bit of a search to find a shot of the non-corridor side in its original state (to match the etches). I finally found one in Slinn's Great Western Way. The windows were later rebuilt with sliding ventilators, but I wanted to do the early (mid-late 1930's) variant.

 

Adrian

[Mallard60022]

That's a great amalgum effort there Adrian. I do admire your way of getting loads of bits and creating something unusual.

Still haven't tried a Slater's Toplight but might be going for a Blacksmith's version sometime soon.B)

I still also have not had the bottle to do a Coachman on a RTR/brass sides etc. conversion; daft really as I've got some really old Hornby coaches in boxes in the loft that will never do anything unless they get the 'treatment'! maybe I'll do a simple Comet MK1 conversion to start with?

P @ 36E.