GWR Mogul in 4mm scale from K's kit

[bertiedog]

Does anybody know of a supplier of lost wax nickel silver crosshead castings for a GWR mogul in 4mm, I looked up Gibson etc and cannot spot any, although they do rods both couplings and connecting.

I can build them from scratch, but time is an issue, and brass lost wax would be fine as they could be plated or tin coated..

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Further searching on the net only gives O gauge or gauge one parts,, does anybody do a range of lost wax parts apart from Gibson's range.?

[Coach bogie]

Assuming it is 4mm you are after the Malcom Mitchell mogul has lost wax brass parts available from David Geen Kits

 

sales@davidgeen.co.uk

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[bertiedog]

Thanks, I had spotted the kits, but the site did not mention as separate parts so I will drop them a line. and see what's available.from David Geen, other than that it looks like a day on the milling machine, with fiddly work!!.

[Sidecar Racer]

Markits do a machined nickle silver crosshead , I have used them and they are very nice , not sure whether they

are Mogul specific , but definatly GWR style .

 

Only problem could be delivery times .

[Tim Hale]

May I second the recommendation to use Markits excellent machined nickel silver crossheads for double slidebars. I recently had the pleasure of using them in place of DJH's offerings and the Markit items proved to be head n'shoulders above anything else.

 

The added advantage, they are suitable for use straight out of the packet.

 

DesA

[bertiedog]

Thanks for the Markits reference. Yes, those would do fine, I will keep them in mind. They look as if the piston rod is separate?..and at least they are made in nickel silver.

Stephen.

[Tim Hale]

Markit Crosshead

 

This might help

 

 

DesA

[bertiedog]

Markit Crosshead

This might help

DesA

 

Yes, they would do fine, there was a picture of sorts in the on line catalogue, but the shot is easier to assess it's appearance, (no outside vale gear though on GWR).

Thanks.

[craigwelsh]

This came up when Tim V was building a Prairie and Comet supply a generic one rather than something specific, the Markits one isn't correct but probably the best thing about unless you get some Mitchell ones which are correct but cast not machined.

[bertiedog]

This the type, it is pretty plain in style, can't find any better drawing, or photograph.

[bertiedog]

Might possibly be going to Plan B...I have just found a bar of 3/8th inch nickel silver, and the milling machine is idle.........

[Horsetan]

Comet do a usable crosshead pair if you're not over-fussy.

 

As mentioned above, Malcolm Mitchell via David Geen can supply spares from kits (within reason) but, in my sample of the Mogul kit, the crossheads are etched sub-assemblies, not cast ones.

[bertiedog]

I am not desperate to solder together a crosshead, I could do that from sheet parts, it's solid one i was after, and the Markit type would heed attention to filing the facing flush etc, so I think I will machine a pair from solid, the usual problem with this is finding tiny cutters for the slidebar groove, but I have some slitting saws that will do this as horizontal milling.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Coach bogie]

The original kits did come with etched cross heads but when David Geen took over he had lost wax replacements made though I think you had to ask for them

 

Here is the one out of the Star (same crosshead anyway)

 

Mike Wiltshire

[bertiedog]

Nice casting, but brass would need plating with tin(hot), or nickel plate, so doing some from scratch tomorrow. It may be queried why no soldering, it is the attachment of all the parts being done at once that is the problem, further heating means all softens and shifts etc., being so small screwing together etc is not on, apart from the piston rod.

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

I had a reply, they are etched and soldered together, or cast as the brass lost wax one is, they were changing all crossheads to lost wax , but lost a supplier.

It is of course possible to silver solder the etched parts ones, very solid, but I think it will be easier to mill out replacements, and also the crosshead bar slides, which are destined for an up-dated Keyser kit loco.

[bertiedog]

Thanks for the suggestions for the crossheads, they will e scratchbuilt, in milled nickel silver, to go with an Ebay purchase, a GWR Mogul, that will heeded the new crosshead, as whitemetal was supplied in the kit by K's.

 

 

The kit is a curious variant of the class, known only to K's, a 240 mogul, yes 240 , as they have forgotten to drill the middle axle hole in the chassis side frames.

So an extra hole to drill, using the rods as guide for a jig, The intention is to replace parts as needed, like the cast connecting rods and crosshead etc, and improve all the existing body parts to a high standard, all soldered construction, new chimney, and safety valve cover, and complete backhead for the boiler, with cab details and crew.

 

It will need brakes and rodding, and some piping added..

 

From memory the loco is accurate, but sits a fraction high, and needs a close coupling for the tender, and fall plate. Sprung buffers can be added if not supplied.

 

The motor may be all right, but is likely to be changed to a gearbox mounted motor with modern gears.

I will have to inspect the wheels to see if they can be used, they can be OK, or very bad! Alan Gibson do decent replacements if needed.

The existing wheels will be re-profiled, and flanges reduced, and then chemically blackened.

 

I am starting gathering up the bits and pieces needed to start, It will be sprung, and very detailed. and previous experience with building these , makes a good running loco, with lashings of power.

[bertiedog]

The Keyser kit has come, and much better than expected, decent drivers, reasonable castings, brass handrail knobs, and a motor that might be usable.....maybe........

The parts are all there, they need a preparatory session to clean, fettle and check true and straight, and trial fitting, before soldering together with 70 degree low melting point solder..

 

 

 

 

Frames and motor, not missing middle hole and the holes are oversized ans miss placed from edge, although the wheelbase is correct and matches the side rods.

 

 

The K's 3 pole motor, it works........with plastic bearings....not a good design.....

 

 

K's motor.

 

 

Wheels in ABS with D ends, and screw retainers... a bit rusty,....now in rust proofer and will need polish. Flange size needs a touch of reduction in the lathe.

 

 

K's wheel, the only decent type they made.

 

 

Wheels and axles, which appear to be stainless steel.

 

 

Bits and pieces including brass handrail knobs.

 

 

Cast whitemetal connecting rods!

 

Castings next.......

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The main castings for the K's kit..quite good condition, none missing. Small amount of flash, no miss alignment or register problems.

 

 

Tender sides.

 

 

Footplate and tender top.

 

 

Boiler etc.

 

 

Smaller bits

 

 

Cylinders and frame.

 

 

Buffers in whitemetal........

 

 

Firebox side...quite detailed

 

 

Tender side.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Quite a bit of fettling and filing to do to casting edges etc, and gentle wire brush over all the surfaces, edges trued to parallel, and square.

 

 

The edges can be thinned where exposed as in the cab, but there is no firebox back, nothing supplied at all, so scratchbuilding needed there. No fall plate or correct surface for the cab floor, same wit tender surface of the floor, but other details correct, no lamps supplied, but some fire irons are. No brakes on tender or the Locomotive chassis., but Alan Gibson do sets of plastic shoes,(no electrical problems).

 

 

The brass mainframes are usable, as long as new accurate bearings are fitted, the holes punched are oversized (3.8mm), and the middle hole is missing entirely. The frame spacer holes are not counter sunk, but are placed accurately.

 

The Keyser designed motor runs quite well for a three pole motor it has plastic bearings though, and may be changed for a 5 pole Mashima, the worm and the gears appear OK, but the tooth form of the worm is not a true match to the gearwheel, but might improve if run in in a test rig. Easily replaced with Alan Gibson or Ultrascale. or the complete Gibson gearbox, there is space for a decent sized flywheel as well.

 

Springing can be added by the sprung wire system, Varney type, CSB style but fully adjustable.

 

The wheels are usable, I think, after testing they seem true,and the best type K's did. Rusty at moment, in rust proofer next and clean and polish, then back in proofer.

 

The carrying wheels are Romford type , true running, but no inserts for spokes, so may be changed later on to Alan Gibson wheels for appearance sake. No brass bearings in tender, just plain holes with pinpoints!

 

No air cylinder under tender and no castings for the water scoop at all. no base under the tender, K's never fitted them. I am considering springing the tender as well, possibly with weight transfer to the loco chassis.

 

No couplings are supplied at all, not even three link, but any screwlink type will fit, along with sprung buffers, to replace the whitemetal cast type they supplied in the kit.

 

So all soldered construction, bar tiny additions, with some brass replacement parts including the chimney and safety valve etc, Oil lamps to be made, brakes made or bought, rodding for brakes, and some piping and items like steam lance connections, and drain cocks and control rods.

 

The entire boiler back head has to be produced, K's left it open for the motor!!

 

It should make up into a very detailed loco to fine OO 4mm standards, durable solid metal, and will outlast any RTR 4mm, and be better detailed..

 

Stephen

 

[hayfield]

Stephen, I will be watching this thread with interest, I have an unmade kit like yours which is missing the chassis and a built up one that needs refurbishing, no motor but has a set of Romfords.

 

If you have a problem with the drivers I have 4 wheels that are still shrink wrapped but no axles, I guess I will buy a Comet chassis for the unmade one and will use either Romfords or Gibson wheels.

 

I never had any luck with the HPM motors, where as the Mk 2's have been fine.

[bertiedog]

Alan Gibson does the milled profile brass frames to suit a GWR Mogul, no reason it should not fit the K's kit with a bit of tailoring to suit... the wheels seem OK, no breaks in the mouldings , straight crankpins, flat backs, but slightly rusty, in bath of phosphoric acid rust remover at the moment, (99p from the 99p shop).

 

The rust remover looks like a good low melt flux as well, I will try it later this evening.

 

If the motor checks out, I may add bronze bearings to the plastic motor frame and use it, but they are very iffy on reliability, and only three pole as well..A Mashima will fit easily with a gearbox.

 

The supplied frames are a joke, the middle wheel hole is un-drilled, and the outer holes are way over 1/8th at about 3.8mm, also they are not the same distance from the edge by about 40 thou or so. so any normal customer would never have used the frames.

 

The tender is accurate, the same each side, unusual for K's........the rest of the parts are quite OK, except for taste, like the copper chimney, and brass safety valve cover, both made in lost wax by Alan Gibson.

 

The main replacement is the crosshead, and the coupling rod, both supplied in white metal, easy enough to make or buy in from Gibson in cast and etched parts.

 

I am thankful it comes from the best period, with still brass parts, not plastic, and with decent wheels....no half D axles and push fit wobbly wheels in this one, which plagued the Keyser Milestone range.

 

Stephen.

[micklner]

From experience dump the motor/gears and use a Mashima and High Level box. The missing backhead maybe K's way of releasing heat from the dire motor before it goes pop

[tarifa]

Try Comet for your cross heads and motions.

 

Mike