bertiedog Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hamblings did N/S (and some plated), versions at first, then in the 1950's N/S became very difficult to obtain, and they had large stocks of brass rims made for them. In the mid 1970's they had nickel rims in stock, but few were produced before the closure of the firm. I have had a look at Markits, they list a set of all wheels and accessories for just over £50, which as it includes the lot, including bogie and tender with covers for the axle ends and balance weights is not too bad. The old Romford bogie and tender were poor Mazak castings with no tyre, but I assume these are N/S tyres now, and plastic spoked, but they do not give exact details. They say the set is a match for throw etc., designed to suit a particular locomotive class Anybody have experience of delivery times from Markits?..I do not want the kit un-completed without wheels to suit being to hand..With the Hamblings I do have them to hand and ready to fit. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 The Hamblings wheel sample in place, looks very reasonable for size, but is 24mm rather than 23mm, but is the same O/D as the flanges are far smaller now than the K's originals.. The short crank throw is a bit of a nuisance, as is the spoke count being wrong, but the crank can be drilled 1mm further out, nothing can be done for the spoke count though, (two to many) The chassis has a bit of adjustment available and can be moved up about 1.2mm to give the correct overall height to the roof from the rail. K's castings of the splashers are none to accurate, lining the axles up exactly is impossible, but with the frames and wheels all black and with brake gear, it should not be too obvious. So on cost grounds I think the Hamblings are the best option, I intensely dislike steel tyres anyway on rust grounds, I also do not really like brass, but with painted rims etc it does not show to much, and they can be treated with silvering. The other remaining loco wheels can be the K's supplied bogie and tender wheels they are Romford brass plated types that should have inserts, but none were supplied in the boxed kit. These can be changed to Markit, or Ultrascale later on, no steel.They are completely accurate and to gauge, and will allow testing etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Anybody have experience of delivery times from Markits?..I do not want the kit un-completed without wheels to suit being to hand..With the Hamblings I do have them to hand and ready to fit. Stephen. I usually purchase from Mainly trains. They also sell the wheels as separates. The service is excellent. A quick call and they are usually posted same day (free postage for orders over £30 which it will be) http://www.mainlytrains.co.uk/acatalog/index.html. Response time from Markits has been slow in the past when I have tried, but in fairness, it is a one man operation. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan100 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Markits wheelset prices include the Deluxe threaded crankpins (you may prefer the original which are less expensive) and, as you said, the axle covers, which you may prefer to do without. Geoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Moving away from the driving wheels, whilst supplies are sorted out, the tender and detailing needs to be done in the meantime, along with the gearbox and drive. There are sprung buffers to be made, whistles, cylinder drain cocks, and the backhead to make. The tender needs a bit of sorting out, K's design means sealing the wheelsets in place on pin point, pretty much the worst option, as accuracy depends on the castings, often not the best source! The castings in this tender sample are fine on accuracy, quite rare. Brass pin point bearings can be fitted, but again the whole thing has to be built around the wheelsets, which makes painting a pain. The best option seems to be an internal chassis, with the axles running in sleeve bearings, with the pin points remove altogether. The more difficult option is to slot the back of the K's sideframes so that a pin point bearing can be lowered into slotted axleboxes. It is just possible to do this in the space, due to OO clearances. In fact it may be better to fit axle with plain needle stub bearings, as it allows a bit of sideplay, if the outside bearing route is taken. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2011 Anybody have experience of delivery times from Markits?.. Mark turned my order round the day he got it, so I got my bits on the doorstep within a week of me sending it. This was about a month ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 Assembly resuming soon, wheels are coming, and a motor and gears from Ebay, so more body detailing and the tender can be tackled. There was a backhead with castings on Ebay, but it cost to much in the end, so making one from scratch. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Markits bogie and tender wheel centres are metal and the tyres on wheels Ive had are nickel silver. They are quite a posh product compared with the old Romford Mazak offerings. The splashers on the K's 43XX look to be for a smaller diameter wheel that the loco actually needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 It's an Ultrascale set coming, not Markit, so the issue of the splashers is important as they are full scale plus 00 flanges, but it is not aided by K's having both slightly small splashers, (about right on the outside radius), but they compound the problem with having them incorrectly spaced! It is not worth moving them, adjusting the position of the chassis to even the mistake out is the best way, only a dead side on view shows the problem. It is hidden somewhat better once the wheels, chassis and underside are all black finish. On locomotive splashers generally they often look wrong on photos due to optical illusion, the true centre of the curve does not line up with the axle centre, but a point higher, due to the springing, and the load weight of the loco under full water and coal, (in the case of a tank engine). At full top movement of the wheels the axle centre and the splasher curve centre usually matched, but normal working left it short, and looks odd in photos, making the splasher appear a smaller radius than you would expect. The human perception of badly comparing curves when "stacked" is a well known optical illusion. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 The Ultrascale set of Mogul wheels has arrived, courtesy of an RM member, and work recommences now on the chassis, which will be sprung, with removable axle boxes etc, but with sprung wire adjustable suspension. It will need a new gear set and gear box made, to float on the driven axle, with a universal joint to the fixed motor and flywheel. There is a spare DS-10 motor that will suit the size etc., fully double shafted. Still the tender chassis to sort out, the wheels must be removable, something K's never intended. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 The Ultrascale wheels check out fine, they are very accurate indeed, all nickel silver tyred, and fit the axles perfectly. On the axles, two were supplied, one a replacement, but all have been changed to precision ground stainless steel, which will not rust. The new axles have the indent ends and are chamfered to fit easily into the wheel boss, and given a fine finish with optical lapping compound. The plain axles for the tender are being replaced with 1/8 axles in stainless steel, turned down, with stubs to take the wheels at correct back to back..The front bogie also has a 2.5 mm axle with stubs to take the wheels.very accurately. Work starting on axleboxes and springing. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Work underway on the chassis, now with Ultrascale wheels, and an Alan Gibson 38:1 gearbox from Ebay, the enclosed type, which will allow springing of the new brass chassis. The motor is being up rated as well to a small Canon or Mashima, with a larger flywheel. A small universal joint set is needed to connect a drive shaft from the motor to the gearbox, with the flywheel on the far side of the motor. The K's castings do no line up with the wheels exactly, but will do for normal running and display. It is just a matter of adjusting till it barely shows! I have seen worse with some etched frames and bodies, usually where all the wheels are equally out of correct positions. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 A small query, on a Alan Gibson gearbox, is the gear secured with loctite / soldering to the axle, or a grub screw?......, it looks from the shot that the gear is bossless , so loctite may be needed. Also is the plastic paintable, I know it black/grey, but if nylon it would need masking from paint, as any trying to adhere would flake off. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Nice Alan Gibson gearbox arrived, a very well engineered design, it is in ABS plastic, so can be painted, and the parts smoothed over to get a finer finish to the already accurate mouldings. I always use silicon grease with Teflon from Labelle, so that is compatible with the housing parts. The screws holding the halves together will also be countersunk to get the lot flush except for the axle bearings on the sides. An attachment point will be added for a torque rod to the frame. Gears check out very accurate, makes a change from older UK made gears in the past. Only nuisance is no grub screw, it must be Loctited or soldered, but that is more accurate anyway, but it means disassembly is more difficult as the gearbox and axle remain as a unit. The axle boxes must remove from the frames to allow fitting, even if un-sprung, but these wheels are being sprung fully, Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 I am replying to 32A , a notification of a comment on here has arrived by email but the post contains no comment, so this reply refers to the lack of grub screw and "why not pin the boss", well there is no boss, but a pin could be inserted at a angle through the gear side, and into the axle, however in modern terms Loctite would do as well or better. It's just you are very committed to keeping things together as a unit without a grub screw to release the axle sideways, to allow removal of the gearbox, without releasing the hornblocks etc., from the springing, especially when CSB springing is used. Your very committed to keeping the whole lot together after assembly, and this may make panting a touch difficult. This was an advantage of the Varney springing method, where everything drops out easily after the keeper plate is removed, there it does not need the axle removed from the gearbox to release things. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetmorgan Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I've just purchased the same kit as yourself of Ebay, fotunately....from your build details....I've bought mine already built. THe main body is fine except lacking some detail, so I'm buying some steam pipes, smokebox door handles and a few hand rails but the tender chassis is really quite bare, what kits are out there for doing all the brake detail and the water scoop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Not sure about the scoop as ready made, but the brakes are made in plastic by Alan Gibson, the plastic aiding insulation and shorting issues. The supporting wires and the drag bars under the frames will have to be home made , unless parts can be obtained from a kit maker. The scoop is simple to make from brass or tin sheet soldered together, or carved from wood to shape. Again the supports for the brakes will need to be made by yourself, and perhaps an inner frame unit , depends on whether the outside bearings have been used or a chassis fitted inside. Just about to pickup on the loco again at the moment, with details of the new chassis I made to replace the K's,and fitting of the wheels. Motor is a bit undecided at present. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetmorgan Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I was having a look at the Dean Goods tender chassis that Comet models do, although I'm unsure about dimensions and details has I've not seen one in the skin. From the picture on the Comet website it does appear to have all the brake gear but there are some other details missing. It would also mean I could sort out the misalignment of the leading axle on the tender which is not quite parallel to the other two. It doesn't seem to effect the running of the loco, but I haven't been able to try over any pointwork. They also do a water scoop but I don't know if it's a particular GWR pattern, it's just listed as a water scoop. I have to rely on ready made parts as I don't really have the facilities for metal working and not very experienced of scratch building apart from in plasticard and cardboard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I was having a look at the Dean Goods tender chassis that Comet models do, although I'm unsure about dimensions and details has I've not seen one in the skin. From the picture on the Comet website it does appear to have all the brake gear but there are some other details missing. It would also mean I could sort out the misalignment of the leading axle on the tender which is not quite parallel to the other two. It doesn't seem to effect the running of the loco, but I haven't been able to try over any pointwork. They also do a water scoop but I don't know if it's a particular GWR pattern, it's just listed as a water scoop. I have to rely on ready made parts as I don't really have the facilities for metal working and not very experienced of scratch building apart from in plasticard and cardboard. I think Alan Gibson do mainframes for the Mogul, if so they can be ordered either ridged or with the hornblocks cut out,they also sell the coupling rods. Comet cylinders and motion will be superior to K's but now the price is soaring. I have 2 to (re)build undecided as how far to go, at least I have sets of Romford wheels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Be a bit careful with an Alan Gibson scale chassis to prototype dimensions under the K's footplate, the splashers may not line up! The overall length etc will match, but even K's chassis did not line up exactly on both sides. All curable but extra work. The Gibson chassis is exactly correct to the dimensions, and they do matching rods etc. It is down to the vagaries of white metal casting, and K's understanding of it !! it can be corrected by sawing off the cast ones and replacing the whitemetal parts with sheet brass versions, but is a lot of work. There are also various vintages of the K's kit, they redesigned the footplate as a complete unit, earlier are multi part, and easier to alter to an exact fit. It was made for over 25 years or more in various versions and packages. On mine I am just lining up the middle splasher and leaving the others slightly out, it barely shows anyway once painted. . Best work to a published drawing,and overlay the Gibson parts to the drawing to check the size and position of the axle holes, and then adjust the K's body to get the best fit. I have had to leave the work till the past few days due to health issues, but now proceeding with fitting Ultrascale wheels and a new chassis for the tender. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) I was looking for info on the K's tender that comes with the 63xx Mogul and this old thread came up! I am currently building a Mogul and am puzzled by the coal chute not lining up with the floor - it seems too high. I just wondered if you had seen the same problem and also if you finished the model? my thread Edited May 14, 2020 by Jeff Smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted May 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 15, 2020 Mine is covered in coal but looks like the end of the chute is only proud about 1mm from the front floor. It was built 35yrs ago so no memory of any issues! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Here's mine built over half a century ago (makes it sound really old). No lip visible despite the coal over the top. Is yours set down low enough? I don't remember how mine went together now, but as a statement to Evo-stik, it's still holding good! Cheers, Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) Two tenders I bought off eBay, right hand one is from Wills I think, look at the hole in the tender floor on the left Underside if the Keyser tender, its a fixing for the Keyser tender drive. It may be that the tender drive was an earlier version ? Edited May 15, 2020 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 GWR tenders are a minefield. I think some did have a shovelling plate shelf which was raised by a few inches. Whilst others didn't even have the slope. Loads of information here, but you'll probably be screaming for help at some point as it is complicated. http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-tenders.html Also worth looking at the instructions for the Finney kit. http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/Downloads/GWR 3500 tender instructions.pdf Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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