Dan Hamblin Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I didn't think 70000 carried a crest in Black. Looks great though. Actually I had a look into this. I have two photos from early January 1951, one showing it clearly without the crest and one clearly showing it with it. So it must have been added during the testing phase before the loco was painted brunswick green and transferred south for the naming ceremony. Personally I think it looks better with it and I have always preferred the 'ferret and dartboard' type. Regards, Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hill Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Actually I had a look into this. I have two photos from early January 1951, one showing it clearly without the crest and one clearly showing it with it. So it must have been added during the testing phase before the loco was painted brunswick green and transferred south for the naming ceremony. Personally I think it looks better with it and I have always preferred the 'ferret and dartboard' type. Regards, Dan Very interesting. Maybe BR couldn't decide whether it was mixed traffic or passenger and ultimately went for passenger and the loco was painted Brunswick Green. I've always prefered the early crest as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Very interesting. Maybe BR couldn't decide whether it was mixed traffic or passenger and ultimately went for passenger and the loco was painted Brunswick Green. I've always prefered the early crest as well. I think BR always intended the Britannia class was for passenger work, if not the fastest heaviest type, as well as embodying the needs of standard desgn and maintenance and the best engineering principles of the day. Maybe the initial black was simply a pragmatic attractive choice for a first coat? There was a lot of pressure on to have it good-looking and ready, and there was no harm in leaving the brunswick green styling until a little later. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 12, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2011 hope these pictures of of some use, took them earlier today at the heritage centre in crewe, they are having a charity weekend today and tomorrow with guided tours of basford hall as well as a class 70 and 66 on show must admit britannia in black in the flesh looks damn impressive!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowroad Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I note some shops state it this Limited Edition model is produced from new tooling. What is different with the spec of this Hornby Britannia compared to their earlier models and which of their current BR green livery ones are the same specification? Robin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2011 I note some shops state it this Limited Edition model is produced from new tooling. What is different with the spec of this Hornby Britannia compared to their earlier models and which of their current BR green livery ones are the same specification? Robin Any of the britannias numbered R.2562 or higher are the retooled Super-detail models. They were remade from scratch as Hornby are doing with the rest of their models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Railsof Sheffield are doing them at a reduced price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowroad Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Any of the britannias numbered R.2562 or higher are the retooled Super-detail models. They were remade from scratch as Hornby are doing with the rest of their models. Many thanks................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Hi Thank you so much for those photos Big Jim she does look very impressive in black. I really like it. Hornbys re tooled Britannia class is outstanding. Maybe the best they have produced to date in steam. 3 questions on the front photo of the loco on the LHS what is that? I also noticed the bearing housing has a red stripe not the normal yellow why?. She has a sign saying she cannot be moved again why? The rails one is not a bad price and when you knock vat off well even better. I not allowed to get one as my wife has banned me from buying any more Britannia class locos. After the little mix up with air freight/sea postage, no tracking and purchasing a couple of sets to replace the lost one when I was in the UK I ended up with 4 Devon Belles with the coaches packs, the brit with the 12 wheel pullmans. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thank you so much for those photos Big Jim she does look very impressive in black. I really like it. Hornbys re tooled Britannia class is outstanding. Maybe the best they have produced to date in steam. 3 questions on the front photo of the loco on the LHS what is that? I also noticed the bearing housing has a red stripe not the normal yellow why?. She has a sign saying she cannot be moved again why? Martin The usual story with 'preserved' locos - any resemblance to their condition in BR days might be no more than coincidence (a slight exaggeration but always to be borne in in mind). Thus the pictured 70000 is painted in gloss black (the original I understand was not varnished so arguably had a dull finish but I am open to correction on that), carries a post-preservation added Westinghouse pump on the front running plate - which the original never did, has the wrong dome for 70000 when it ran in black, doesn't have the hollow driving axles which 70000 had when it ran in black, has the later pattern coupling rods instead of the fluted type which 70000 had originally, and has the latter pattern of step below the smokebox door which wasn't on 70000 as built, and has train airbrake pipes which the loco never had in its BR days, and has modern design ohle warning 'flashes'. So basically what you see in Jim's pics is a later condition 'Britannia' with post preservation modifcations which make it quite a lot different in detail from the loco when it originally ran in black. The 'Not To Be Moved' board is simply what it says and doesn't mean the loco can never be moved again; it is a reminder that due to work being carried out on the loco it would be unsafe to move it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 The 'Not To Be Moved' board is simply what it says and doesn't mean the loco can never be moved again; it is a reminder that due to work being carried out on the loco it would be unsafe to move it. Those Not to be moved signs were vital in steam days and had to be used when cleaning or oiling around locos otherwise there could be a mangled man wrapped up in the inside motion! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Those Not to be moved signs were vital in steam days and had to be used when cleaning or oiling around locos otherwise there could be a mangled man wrapped up in the inside motion! Hi, They still are a requirement! Anyway, back to the topic, It does look nice, but whose going be the first to put an air pump on the running plate? Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Why couldnt they put the damned pump on top of the tender where it's accessible but can'e be seen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2011 Why couldnt they put the damned pump on top of the tender where it's accessible but can'e be seen? Maybe they got hold of some earlier 'Brit' drawings and copied the original BR mounting position off the 'experimentally equipped' locos? That apart I can see no logical reason for putting it there - plenty of other steam locos have acquired Westinghouse pumps without suffering visually from most normal viewing angles and theatthing cries out to be kept out of sight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bayford Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Maybe they got hold of some earlier 'Brit' drawings and copied the original BR mounting position off the 'experimentally equipped' locos? That apart I can see no logical reason for putting it there - plenty of other steam locos have acquired Westinghouse pumps without suffering visually from most normal viewing angles and theatthing cries out to be kept out of sight. You dont really notcie it and if they are mounted inbetween the frames they overheat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted March 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2011 You dont really notcie it and if they are mounted inbetween the frames they overheat No - that's where 60019's is, we had no problems with that. There should be stacks of room between the frames of a 2 cyl (outside) loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 You dont really notcie it and if they are mounted inbetween the frames they overheat In fairness, I wouldn't notice it on the front of a Class 70... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Maybe they got hold of some earlier 'Brit' drawings and copied the original BR mounting position off the 'experimentally equipped' locos? That apart I can see no logical reason for putting it there - plenty of other steam locos have acquired Westinghouse pumps without suffering visually from most normal viewing angles and theatthing cries out to be kept out of sight. I thought the BR experimental ones had then mounted on the side of the smokebox like a WD and the smoke deflectors were left off? I must admit to finding the mounting a bit intrusive but maybe this was the easiest method to get approved for mainline and caused the least amount of changes to the loco? Did the NRM fit 70013 with air brakes somewhere or is it vac only? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward66 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 When I was 9 years old and already an avid loco spotter living next to the Little North Western 5 miles east of Lancaster I heard the 7-15pm to Leeds whistle before departing Caton station but no ordinary whistle. Sprinted down our field to the lineside to see the usual Compound double headed with this wonderful green locomotive, 70016, with windshields bearing the name "Ariel". This mystery locomotive was not in my Ian Allan ABC. It was on the same train all week, no longer double headed after the first or second day. Then my July [i think] issue of Meccano Magazine arrived with a picture of "Britannia" on the cover and all was revealed. I assume Ariel was on a running in turn. I've always remembered that incident as clearly as if it were yesterday! Edward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orcadian Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Why couldnt they put the damned pump on top of the tender where it's accessible but can'e be seen? I don't know if a Westinghouse pump ever needs/receives attention while a loco is out on the road, but if it does, I don't think you'd like going on top of a tender under the 25KV overhead line equipment! They were always accessible from the loco running plate in the 'good old days' weren't they? Perhaps climbing onto the running plate of a stationary loco out on the road is also frowned upon by the H&S department - too close to another high speed running line. On the front end, between the smoke deflectors may be the acceptable compromise between safe and easy access and visual intrusion. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Nice memory there Edward. This is something the young 'uns on here have yet to discover........That we don't see the past through rose-tinted specs. Memories from child hood are often as fresh as yesterday even in old age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I thought the BR experimental ones had then mounted on the side of the smokebox like a WD and the smoke deflectors were left off? I must admit to finding the mounting a bit intrusive but maybe this was the easiest method to get approved for mainline and caused the least amount of changes to the loco? Did the NRM fit 70013 with air brakes somewhere or is it vac only? 70013 has only got a steam brake and vacuum brakes, i can understand why put air brake on. i do have to say the pump could have put somthere else, i wonder where it was put at the NVR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2011 70013 has only got a steam brake and vacuum brakes, i can understand why put air brake on. i do have to say the pump could have put somthere else, i wonder where it was put at the NVR? The two fitted with Westinghouse brake equipment were 70043&44-minus,until normalised,smoke deflectors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hamblin Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 70013 has only got a steam brake and vacuum brakes, i can understand why put air brake on. i do have to say the pump could have put somthere else, i wonder where it was put at the NVR? Rory - the air pump was in almost exactly the same place when Britannia worked on the NVR in the 1980's. It is far easier to get to for maintenance and fault finding in this position than out of sight between the frames. Regards, Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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