Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Not sure where to post this, here, Painting and weathering or prototype? I am just about to start painting my model of 5816 about 1935. I was wondering if anyone can help about the colours of tank tops splashers and footplate. I have colour photos of 1450 which seem to show a dark grey colour for the area above buffers (name???) and a similar colour for tank tops are the splasher tops the same colour? All photos I have of 5816 are B & W which doesn't help much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Tank tops, splasher tops and footplate should all be black. The dark grey is just faded black. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks Nick, I think I will go for the charcoal grey then. On some of the photos of 58xx it looks like they may have the copper cap of the chimney unpainted but, on others they just look black, do you think that is just a trick f the light or would some have a copper cap. In a 1955 photo of 5816 it also looks like she has a brass safety valve bonnet, I'm keeping mine green as originally painted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't recall seeing any evidence of a polished copper cap at any date. According the RCTS volume, 5816, 1465 and 1470 were painted in full lined black at some point in the 1950s, then in 1956 they were painted green. In 1957, several more 14xx were painted in lined green with polished bonnets. It's not clear from that description whether 5816 also had a polished bonnet, or when. It is always possible that an individual workshop may have turned out one or two with polished bonnets at an earlier date, but I can't remember seeing any such photos. If you are aiming for 1935, then presumably you also have no top feed, bunker steps or extended whistle guard? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I have removed top feed, bunker steps and firemans handrail, I have got Petos register and from there it says about the whistle shields: "The last 15 engines of the 48xx series 4860 -4874 differed from their predecessors and the 58xxs in that they were fitted from new with short whitle plate" these were refitted with longer shields later. I took this to mean that 58xx were fitted from build with the taller shields. I have fitted wire handrails instead of all the moulded ones, lamp irons and fire iron hooks. Just hope I can make a decent enough job of painting it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Sounds like Peto has left something out and is open to two different interpretations The RCTS volume says much the same, but is clearer. 4860-74 were the first to be fitted with any form of whistle shield. It proved to be innefective, so eventually all of both series, "...except perhaps No5814..." were fitted with the taller shield. There's no indication of when this happened but clearly not before the late thirties. Nick ps. good luck with the painting, that's always the bit that terrifies me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 After rereading Peto, I agree it is a bit unclear, but I think it sounds like I need to remove the whistle shield which took so long to make out of 10 5thou plasticard and even longer to fit. I will need to do a bit of sanding then before I get the Loco green out. Hopefully the nice man at 247 developments will be reading my wish list and crack on with the plates... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 According the RCTS volume, 5816, 1465 and 1470 were painted in full lined black at some point in the 1950s I have heard this quoted before but never been able to find photos to back it up. 1470 was a regular on the Ashburton branch and so was fairly well photographed but all the photos I have seen show unlined black. If anyone knows of any photos I would be very interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 According to Peto's Register 1417,1465,1470 and 5816 were painted black with red,cream and grey lining and it appears 1417 was the first in August 1949. There is a good photo of 5816 in 1955 and that does not show lining or BR Emblem. Then later in the book there is a photo of 1426 with a lined livery, looks green though. Just about to remove the Whistle shield, then sand down again ready for painting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Removed the whistle shield and built the back of the cab, I have removed one of the doors so it can be portrayed open. Fist coat of green paint done, model now in tupperware box to dry for 48 hours. Wish I had taken a photo when it was in its primer coat, it looked good on the chassis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 According to Peto's Register 1417,1465,1470 and 5816 were painted black with red,cream and grey lining and it appears 1417 was the first in August 1949. Despite my scepticism I have just found a photo of 1417 still wearing lined black in 1959. It does not have a crest although it might have "British Railways" on the side. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/location.php?loc=Chester%20%28West%29%20MPD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Yet another query regarding the livery of 5816. I am modelling this in its 1934/35 livery, I have photos of similar locos from 1933 and 1934, these show the locos number on the Headstock, yet later photos post war and BR show the number on the smokebox door, when did this practice start? I have the "Great Western" Transfers fitted on the Tank Side but need to know where I but the number, I am erring towards the headstock unless I hear otherwise. Is the number duplicated on the rear buffer beam, I can't see that in any photos, but, thought I'd ask as they do a lot of bunker first running. Would there be anymore transfers required for that livery in 1934/35, I have cabside numberplates on order from 247, but, haven't had a reply from my prechristmas wish list e mail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Number of the smokebox was a BR feature, GWR practice was on tank locos a number on the front and rear bufferbeams. As for GWR numberplates I use Martin Finney DIY plates you can make up and 3 or 4 diget number. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'll vote for the Finney DIY plates as well. They are so much better than transfers as they replicate the 3D nature of the originals. Once you realise that they can be assembled using varnish to hold the digits in place, they are really easy to make up. In my first attempt at using them (final picture here), I soldered them. It was only when someone pointed out the varnish method that I realised how difficult I'd made it for myself Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I.K.B. have a look on Malcolm Mitchel'sl No1 shop web site, on the front page go to prototype information, there is a full G.W.R. painting schedule. It should answer all your questions and some that you have not thought of yet. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Number of the smokebox was a BR feature, GWR practice was on tank locos a number on the front and rear bufferbeams. As for GWR numberplates I use Martin Finney DIY plates you can make up and 3 or 4 diget number. David Thanks for your help re Martin Finney Number Plates, didn't know about that will ring up in a bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I'll vote for the Finney DIY plates as well. They are so much better than transfers as they replicate the 3D nature of the originals. Once you realise that they can be assembled using varnish to hold the digits in place, they are really easy to make up. In my first attempt at using them (final picture here), I soldered them. It was only when someone pointed out the varnish method that I realised how difficult I'd made it for myself Nick Could you provide me a link to the "Varnish Method", I've just recieved my order from Martin Finney and would like to crack on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Could you provide me a link to the "Varnish Method", I've just recieved my order from Martin Finney and would like to crack on Or you could use Humbrol gloss black, no need to paint the background of the plates then. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Could you provide me a link to the "Varnish Method", I've just recieved my order from Martin Finney and would like to crack on It's just a matter of using gloss varnish to stick the digits in place on the plate. Varnish has the benefit of a longer drying time than solder or cyano, so you get plenty of time to ensure the alignment is correct. Then, when dry, paint black. When that is dry polish of the surface to remove the black from the digits and the rim of the plate. I've not tried Ozzyo's suggestion of just using gloss black, but it probably works just as well. Just polish the digits and rim when the paint is dry. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 5816 out of the Paintshop Ignore the black wire beneath the cab. Need to weather it now, and add lamps fire irons and crew. Wish I had managed to get the number on straight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Well done, good to see it painted ...Wish I had managed to get the number on straight That's just what I said when I first made up one of these plates Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isambard Kingdom Brunel Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 This what it looked like when I started. I'm quite chuffed as I've never done anything like this before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP99 Posted February 19, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2013 Can anyone advise? With regard to 58xx locos in BR black livery, would the cabside number plates had a black or red background. The colour pictures I have seen seem to suggest black, but it could just be grime? Was it just the larger mixed traffic classes that received the red backed plates? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Bit of a mixed bag. Mostly it was black but some examples did recieve red. 1470 is the only one I know for sure had red plates. Maybe Peto's Register has full details? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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