New railway line in Devon

[darren01]

Hi All

 

I have just read in my local paper that they are planning to reopen the railway line between, Okehampton, Holsworthy, Bude and Launceston again.

 

Survey work will start later this year on the line,will keep you up dated on this one.

 

All the best

 

Darren

 

 

 

[Bomag]

The have been talking about reopening to Tavistock for commuters and the link between there and Meldon as a long term replacement/supplement for the GW line at Dawlish but I cannot think that reopening the branches will be a goer - the branch to Newquay only just survives.

[Gwiwer]

I am a long way away from any local news reports but can see from a good knowledge of the area and its traffic flows that there might be value in at least surveying the route to establish if it could be re-used. Much of it has been lost beneath buildings for example and could not necessarily be realigned easily.

 

The Okehampton line is now in private hands but is useable all the way to Meldon. Bere Alston to Tavistock is being looked at with a view to reopening to a new station short of Tavistock viaduct. The rail lobby is looking at joining those two ends once more but that would be a far bigger task and not cheap.

 

Whether there is any value to be gained in reopening to Bude (or even to Launceston, where a steam railway now has an established operation over a mile or two of the trackbed) will be determined by potential costs and the traffic potential. Roads in the area are not the best and can become very crowded. But for many months of the year they are lightly-used and the biggest delay might be getting stuick behind a tractor.

 

There would be little commuter traffic from Launceston to Exeter via Okehampton; it is a fairly self-contained town owing more to Plymouth for regional employment.

 

As a pro-rail person I do wish the campaigns well but we have to be realistic in terms of what is practicable.

 

Newquay has been run right down by many years of management and has at last seen an increase in service frequency. If those trains had sufficient accommodation for the number of passengers wishing to travel it would also help. It is a long and slow route which does not service the major traffic flows in the area (which are probably to Perranporth, Truro and points west rather than to the east) but is doing a little better than "just surviving".

[gillinghamgus]

Agreed the Newquay line is busy through out the summer months for the surfing and all the students go there if they can't afford to go to Ibiza!

 

Bude and Launceston is just a proposal at this stage? I can't see it going to far though

[Clay Country]

I can see the Meldon - Tavistock line being reinstated at some point but I doubt the revenues from a line to Launceston or Bude would even cover a fraction of their operating costs, never mind construction cost. Assuming the astronomical cost of building railway infrastructure in this country comes down to a sensible level, and we start reopening lines again in England, there are probably more apropriate places the money could be spent - Portishead for example.

[Gwiwer]

Devon County Council seems to be behind the push to get trains to Tavistock from Plymouth though they might need to work hand-in-hand with Plymouth unitary authority on funding. It would be ludicrous to have a line with funding in place from Tavistock to Tamerton Foliot but be unable to run into Plymouth for want of support. They also appear interested in Okehampton - Tavistock but more as part of a national network than as a local service provision. Anyone with any awareness would know the problems and possibly the amount of money required along the sea wall section which might not last for ever, or not as a medium-speed main line.

 

Devon and Cornwall would need to work together on an Okehampton - Launeston - Bude proposal most of which lies in Cornwall. The Royal Duchy is (as it always has been) far less affluent than its neighbour east of the Tamar and is desperately trying to avoid wholesale cuts to supported services already. Devon is poorer for losing Torbay and Plymouth to unitary authorities but is still quite positively supporting public transport.

 

The situation is quite different to the Borders Railway in Scotland which is under the aegis of the Scottish Parliament and although it also will link extremely rural areas it will provide transport options for those regions to the national Capital as opposed to quite modest regional market towns.

 

If Launceston were ever to rejoin the main line railway map the link should be to Plymouth via Tavistock and not to Exeter via Okehampton in my opinion. It would probably be as quick to reach Exeter and London by the Plymouth route in any case.

[The Stationmaster]

Its probably cheaper to go to Ibiza then to spend a week in Satans Lair

 

Dunno if its not a go-er cos Devon CC (or possibly Plymouth) seemed to have woke up to the potential of Rail Travel - No doubt the "new" Cornwall County Council will do the same dreckly...so that will be about 2025 then

 

Hmm, 'dreckly' now means that fast then? Tavistock -Plymouth has been under 'review' and 'confidential discussion with stakeholders' and 'we're only drawing these plans for costing purposes' since before I left the Western Region when it was 'dismantled in 1992. I don't know what things have changed but as already noted the line would stop short of the viaduct as it was felt that people living the other side of it would not take kindly to having their homes demolished to make way for a railway. I presume the latter point would apply equally to any proposal to reconnect a branch to Tavistock with one to Okehampton?

 

A revived rail link into North Cornwall might be quite a good idea but while my fingers are crossed I have my doubts if it would be 'politically' acceptable to local tax payers while cuts are being made elsewhere. However when petrol reaches £10 per gallon - i.e. in a few months time - it might gain much greater acceptance.

[Gwiwer]

The A30 is near motorway standard west from Exeter passing Okehampton and Launceston. Exeter Central (city centre) station - Launceston via the A30 is around 45 - 50 minutes drive. You would need a straight modern high-speed rail line to offer a competitive advantage; the old SR route west of Okehampton is anything but that. Exeter - Okehampton has already been considered by Devon CC for a weekday commuter service but they prefer to support express bus and coach services instead which can stop closer to town and village centres and still offer quicker journey times for less net cost.

 

One of the "political" barriers to the railway running north from Tavistock is the council offices which were built over the track bed north-east of the viaduct and more or less on the old station site. The potential new site is much farther from the town centre and many homes. Greenlands is one of the larger residential areas which would not get much (if any) advantage from a station on the south-western approach to town though that seems to be the only option under consideration.

 

Roads from Launceston to Plymouth via Callington and to Tavistock are pretty horrendous; that from Tavistock into Plymouth is better but already a virtual traffic jam for much of the day.

[Ramblin Rich]

I'd agree with the idea of Okehampton - Tavistock re-opening as a strategic route to bypass Dawlish sea wall, potentially a through route, but I can't see much advantage in Bude & Lanceston. Much of the Hawill Junction site is now a housing estate so the problems at re-gaining the track bed at Tavistock would also apply to Halwill.

Darren - which paper was this? Is there an online version?

[darren01]

Hi

Here is the website for the paper ;www.northdevongazette.co.uk

all the best

Darren

[Glorious NSE]

Searched on that site using the term "railway" and sorted by date, and there are no relevant recent articles? Are you sure they haven't printed an early April edition a little early?

 

An open-acces Okehampton service is on the cards AFAIK although dependant on a number of things, and Tavistock is certainly an aspiration from the Plymouth end I know - both of those should be easily do-able although "easily do-able" and "financially viable" aren't neccesarily the same thing.

 

Linking between those two I suspect may also be aspirational but it's not as simple or even neccesary at the moment.

 

But i've heard no serious talk of reinstating lines into North Devon at the moment? If Launceston was to become a serious suggestion then that might be a good opportunity to punch the Southern route back through the middle of Tavistock and then use the ex GW route north of there - Launceston-Plymouth at least isn't competing with a fast road.

 

dreckly

 

Nice to have a grin on a Thursday...

[298]

Searched on that site using the term "railway" and sorted by date, and there are no relevant recent articles? Are you sure they haven't printed an early April edition a little early?

 

An open-acces Okehampton service is on the cards AFAIK although dependant on a number of things, and Tavistock is certainly an aspiration from the Plymouth end I know - both of those should be easily do-able although "easily do-able" and "financially viable" aren't neccesarily the same thing.

 

Linking between those two I suspect may also be aspirational but it's not as simple or even neccesary at the moment.

 

But i've heard no serious talk of reinstating lines into North Devon at the moment? If Launceston was to become a serious suggestion then that might be a good opportunity to punch the Southern route back through the middle of Tavistock and then use the ex GW route north of there - Launceston-Plymouth at least isn't competing with a fast road.

 

 

 

Nice to have a grin on a Thursday...

 

Probably some students out on surveying practice, and when asked what they were doing by a local busybody, replied by saying they were reopening the railway line. And a few days later, the story gets printed. Monmouth still hasn't got the A40 upgrade to motorway standards that I promised the locals 16 years ago....

[bike2steam]

It amazes me how someone supposedly living in Australia is so up to date with the ways, and wherefors of things in the SW of England, must be the power of the web !!

But as for reinstatement of Launceston, and Bude to the rail network, it all seems a bit far fetched. And as for Tavistock, hasn't there been some building on the old railway line ?

[Gwiwer]

It amazes me how someone supposedly living in Australia is so up to date with the ways, and wherefors of things in the SW of England, must be the power of the web !!

But as for reinstatement of Launceston, and Bude to the rail network, it all seems a bit far fetched. And as for Tavistock, hasn't there been some building on the old railway line ?

 

1. Cornwall is home; Australia is where I live these days. I keep up with subject matter of personal interest which includes among other things transport systems and the price of pasties!

2. Plenty of obstructions on the old lines. Tavistock council offices, Bridestowe station is now private and has a garden across and between the platforms, Halwill Junction is beneath a housing development, Bude station site is also built over, Launceston is occupied by the steam railway and the trackbed the other way is under an industrial estate. That's off the top of my head. And it assumes that Meldon and Holsworthy viaducts (among many other structures) are still fit for main line use.

[chrisf]

It would be somewhere nice to run the preserved T9 but apart from that I think we're in dreamland, sadly

 

Chris.

[Glorious NSE]

And as for Tavistock, hasn't there been some building on the old railway line ?

 

Yes - but that only effects if you want to re-open a line *through* Tavistock - re-opening *to* Tavistock is pretty simple.

[Edwin_m]

IIRC from looking at this about ten years ago, there was one house blocking the formation on the very southern tip of Tavistock and the bridge over the Gunnislake road had been taken out. I think one small underbridge was also missing between there and Bere Alston. Hence the proposal at the time was to put the station on the southern fringe of the town, which would have given space for a car park but been an inconvenient walk (uphill one way) from the town centre. In my view much of the Park and Ride traffic would be in competition with Gunnislake which has another P&R further down the same road.

 

Apart from this one house the trackbed was clear up to the viaduct, where a single-platform station would be possible and nearer to the town centre. No car park of course and the walk to the station would now be steep uphill. I did suggest a lift up the side of one of the viaduct piers but I suspect the heritage people wouldn't wear it or it would cost too much...

 

I emphasise this was ten years ago, I'm not aware of what has been proposed since then or whether anything has changed on the ground.

[Ramblin Rich]

I'd completely forgotten the ex-GWR route to Launceston - it doesn't show up so well on the OS maps & I just thought of the ex-LSWR route via Halwill as the line to Bude was mentioned . A link from Tavistock via Lydford to Launceston would seem slightly more viable - slightly being the operative word... Sadly though I don't think this government is thinking about long term transport provision, just short term spending cuts

[phil-b259]

Realistically Bere Alston - Tavistock is the only viable rail re-opening in the region because of road improvements to the A30 and the ability of express coach services to serve the towns better.Indeed if thought out correctly with a suitable parkway station Tavistock could well end up performing a similar frunction to Tweedbank on the proposed borders line with onward coach connections to Launceston, Bude & Oakhampton. Also if avoiding the see wall becomes necessary as various studdies have proved it is far more cost effective to build a new inland route betwenn Netwon Abbot and Exeter therby preserving the important through services between Exeter and Torquay rather than re-opening the SR route throughout.

[Captain Kernow]

Folks,

 

I've done a bit of checking with some of my work-related contacts, and it appears that Devon & Cornwall Railways were undertaking some surveys in the Holsworthy/Bude/Launceston areas recently, to see what level of support there would be amongst these communities for using the proposed Okehampton to Exeter passenger service, which is still a serious intention of D&CR. It seems that some individuals in the affected local authorites/areas have gotten the wrong end of the stick. D&CR are aware of the press reports and my contact has confirmed to me that there is absolutely no intention of attempting to reopen the railways mentioned earlier in this thread. It is all about promoting the proposed Okehampton to Exeter service.

 

As regards comments about the closed section of line between Meldon Quarry and Tavistock/Bere Alston, I am not aware of any support or interest within NR or Devon CC for this.

 

Also, don't forget that Meldon Viaduct was singled in the last few years of operation, due to concerns about the structure, and a 20 mph speed restriction imposed for the same reason.

 

The ex-S.R. main line is certainly not considered a viable alternative to the main line via Newton Abbot. You may have seen press reports recently covering the visit by Lord Henley to Dawlish a few weeks ago, to investigate the possible implications of climate change on the main line along the Dawlish Sea Wall. This seems to have been a very positive visit, during which NR's committment to maintaining that route was reaffirmed.

 

As regards Bere Alston to Tavistock, there is certainly serious interest and support from a number of local authorities for this scheme, and more importantly, the developer has not indicated any change of heart. However, the economic climate is probably not as favourable right now as it may have been 2 or 3 years ago, given that the railway is but one part of a larger residential development plan. There are also, as I understand it, a number of 'statutory processes' still to be gone through, and clearly the issue is sensitive to some parties in the Tavistock area, so I won't say any more at this stage.

[BB17005]

My only claim to any knowledge of the Tavistock area is a day return from Gunnislake to Plymouth a couple of years ago.(excellent journey).

2 questions struck me in relation to any re-opening of the route into Tavistock :-

Why was the Gunnislake spur given preference over a direct Tavistock link in Beeching days ? and given the distance from Gunnislake to Tavistock (4 miles) , does Gunnislake give a viable commuter link to Plymouth for the Tavistock community already ?

[The Stationmaster]

My only claim to any knowledge of the Tavistock area is a day return from Gunnislake to Plymouth a couple of years ago.(excellent journey).

2 questions struck me in relation to any re-opening of the route into Tavistock :-

Why was the Gunnislake spur given preference over a direct Tavistock link in Beeching days ? and given the distance from Gunnislake to Tavistock (4 miles) , does Gunnislake give a viable commuter link to Plymouth for the Tavistock community already ?

 

Simples - Beeching proposed shutting the lot but the Gunnislake compromise (after the branch was shortened) couldn't easily be replaced by a parallel 'bus service (or even one heading in roughly the same direction as the railway) due to the lack of a handy river crossing. Tavistock was much simpler to get shot of due to reasonable(ish) vaguely parallel road routes and some pretence of a 'suitable' replacement 'bus service.

[Gwiwer]

Tavistock has a direct main road to Plymouth. Gunnislake and Calstock are very awkwardly sited on land which is hilly and cut by the deep Tamar valley. There is no direct road link from those communities to Plymouth - it is necessary to go via Tavistock or Callington. The distance from Bere Ferrers to Plymouth by rail is about a quarter of that by road.

 

Thus the Gunnislake section survived as a vital link while the main line - which was considered to be an unnecessary duplication of the coastal route (try telling that to residents of Tavistock!) was bisected and Bere Alston - Okehampton closed. The condition of Meldon viaduct might have been mentioned in that closure but could have been no more relevant than was the alleged condition of Ribblehead viaduct when the S&C closure was attempted. It has always had a low speed limit applied, 30mph IIRC, which was lowered to 20mph in its later days.

[phil-b259]

My only claim to any knowledge of the Tavistock area is a day return from Gunnislake to Plymouth a couple of years ago.(excellent journey).

2 questions struck me in relation to any re-opening of the route into Tavistock :-

Why was the Gunnislake spur given preference over a direct Tavistock link in Beeching days ? and given the distance from Gunnislake to Tavistock (4 miles) , does Gunnislake give a viable commuter link to Plymouth for the Tavistock community already ?

 

Tavistock is on the main road between Plymouth and Oakhampton thus replacement bus services were easy to organise when it came round to shutting the line which was not the case for stations on the Gunnislake branch. Equally at the time I can well see someone decideding that axing Tavistock in favour of Gunnislake was an ideal way of making the remaining bit an ideal candidate for closure at a later date.

 

As it stands the current terminus at Gunnislake is halfway between Tavistock & Callington so I would imagine it captures a certain ammount of comuters from each town who wat to avoid the traffic jams heading into Plymouth

[Gwiwer]

Gunnislake and Calstock are actually growing areas. Residents of St. Anne''s Chapel, Harrowbarrow, Drakewalls, Albaston, Metherell and Cox Park all make use of the railway to reach Plymouth. The only regular bus in the area links Callington with Tavistock through most of these villages and thus takes some time and it is necessary then to change at either end onto another bus for Plymouth. The train is a far quicker option and requires no change.