Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[gordon s]

Still trying to get my head round it. The start point of the gradient would have to be in the bottom left corner, so that would leave two outer lines on the gradient and the two centre lines flat. This plan is the earlier version without separating the continuous loops from the storage approach. I don't think this is viable with the later plan, but many thanks for taking the time to suggest it.

Edited October 12, 2012 by gordon s

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry about delayed reply, and untidy scribbles on your plan, but this is what I was suggesting.

 

 

I didn't make it even messier by altering the spacing of the lines past the bridge, though that would need to be a sloping single line each side of the double track.

As I said, i don't know if the ruling curves would allow this, and what effect it would have on the planned carriage sidings.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

There's something rather odd about that sketch - and on second look I see that it doesn't remove one of the junction conflicts (the potential worse one).

Edited October 12, 2012 by The Stationmaster

[The Stationmaster]

OK, I understand. No I dropped that one and went back to the previous version as that one just didn't look right...

 

Don't worry Mike, this is just the start, signalling will be coming eventually and I can imagine that subject will be a lot of fun...

 

Track is relatively simple.

 

Signalling is a black art.....

 

....and that pic is fabulous!

Signalling is easy Gordon - as you will find out when that day dawns

[Highlandman]

I can vouch for Mike's knowledge and patience when it comes those who regard signalling as a black art. He has been a great help with signalling my layout. I only hope my signal building skills do him justice. The layout is looking good so far Gordon, I look forward to picturs and maybe some video of the first trains to run on it.

[PhilH]

Signalling is easy Gordon

 

Sure is - flappy things that go up and down.

[Physicsman]

Signalling is easy Gordon - as you will find out when that day dawns

 

In that case - I would also like to enlist your services, Mike. As Gordon so rightly says - it's a black art ('til you understand it - and few do!).

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

Mike may be very busy soon

 

Mike may be very busy soon

[The Stationmaster]

Mike may be very busy soon

 

Mike may be very busy soon

The interesting bit is working out which one will be the simpler of the two to signal

 

PS And I do have a Midland Railway plan of Hawes Jcn - complete with the running signals.

Edited October 12, 2012 by The Stationmaster

[Physicsman]

The interesting bit is working out which one will be the simpler of the two to signal

 

PS And I do have a Midland Railway plan of Hawes Jcn - complete with the running signals.

 

I hope Gordon will forgive the intrusion... Mike, I have books with the station plans, including signalling, for all the S&C stations/halts etc. I have to admit, however, that I don't understand the rationale behind how the system works. Rather than slavishly copy what's on a plan/photograph, I'd love to be able to "work it all out" - as that's the way my mind works. I bet Gordon feels the same!

 

Anyway, the signalling is probably a year away - so I ought to study it in the meantime. Gordon's trackplan looks immensely more complicated than my own - and at least I am working close to a prototype. Not sure if Gordon is?

 

Jeff

Edited October 12, 2012 by Physicsman

[The Stationmaster]

I hope Gordon will forgive the intrusion... Mike, I have books with the station plans, including signalling, for all the S&C stations/halts etc. I have to admit, however, that I don't understand the rationale behind how the system works. Rather than slavishly copy what's on a plan/photograph, I'd love to be able to "work it all out" - as that's the way my mind works. I bet Gordon feels the same!

 

Anyway, the signalling is probably a year away - so I ought to study it in the meantime. Gordon's trackplan looks immensely more complicated than my own - and at least I am working close to a prototype. Not sure if Gordon is?

Jeff

 

The strange thing is Jeff that in essence Gordon's track plan is remarkably simple - a few double junctions sat pretty close to each other but still fairly ordinary junctions for all that and a station approach which at first site looks rather intimidating but was carefully developed from a prototype starting point and was then created to offer certain facilities - which in reality are very simple to signal and which should look good because most of the signals will reflect the fairly simple concept. But it has the hallmarks of what I regard as a 'good' layout in that it can offer enough operating challenge to keep folk on their toes or equally allow a more relaxed atmosphere where one can watch the trains go by.

 

However lots of track between here and signals so plenty of time to have a nice relaxing read about the rationale behind the systems and just how simple it is.

[92220]

Hi Gordon,

Great to see such progress and your enthusiasm for the project returning. These things do seem to take a long time (well, they do for me anyway!) but the results you get are worth it in terms of your own satisfaction that its been done properly. Your efforts continue to be an inspiration.

Golf commitments winding down a little now so I will be able to do a bit more myself in the next few weeks. Hope to catch up with you soon.

Best wishes,

Iain

 

[gordon s]

Three more days of track building and the two crossovers and one double junction that will sit on the stairwell board have been completed. The double junction is over 700mm long and at last I managed to get to grips with my own achilles heel, a fixed diamond crossing. Somehow I could never get the gaps right, particularly between the two running rails at the crossing point. The 1mm flangeway gap between running rail and check rail is fine, it is just the gap between the angled end on one running rail and the opposite running rail that has always given me a problem. I'd love someone to confirm what the gap should be as previous attempts at 1mm failed miserably. I can possibly understand why now as the B2B of the wheels was always fouling the pointed end of the running rail.

 

Picking up on Martin's 20p piece idea, I used that to increase the gap and everything now runs through very smoothly indeed. Of course this was an experiment, so I would appreciate some guidance from other track builders as to what this gap should be. I have three more to build and would like to follow recognised practise rather than my educated guess.

 

Overall, motivation is still running high and I hope to get this board back out into the assembly area tomorrow to make a start on track laying for real. The next item on the agenda will be the retaining walls and I have to say I've taken a real fancy to those on Hadley Green. They look right, so hopefully I will be able to come up with something similar. I haven't attempted resin casting before, so that is sure to provide another huge challenge.

 

Feel free to chip in with your own experiences on casting walls and arches as reading about other's experiences is invaluable.

 

Just having the track and signal box in place is starting to bring the plan to life and the retaining walls will really lift it. The actual height of ET approaches is 113mm above the lower level and not 70mm that I originally spoke about. A great discussion with Martin on gradients helped considerably and has allowed a 1:100 gradient to run over a much longer distance.

 

[martin_wynne]

it is just the gap between the angled end on one running rail and the opposite running rail that has always given me a problem. I'd love someone to confirm what the gap should be as previous attempts at 1mm failed miserably.

 

Hi Gordon,

 

It should really be 1mm to match the other flangeway gaps. However, as you have found, fixed K-crossings cause problems in 00 and EM because of the wider than scale flangeways. My advice generally is to make all diamond-crossings as switch-diamonds in 00 and EM, except for very short ones less than say 1:5 (the Peco diamond-crossing is 1:4.7 for comparison).

 

Here is a diagram of what is supposed to happen. The orange bar is the portion of the wheel flange below the rail top:

Travelling left to right, the back of the flange should still be restrained by the check rail at A, before it reaches the point rail at B, so keeping it clear of the point tip. The problem is that for small wheels the length of that orange portion is just too short, and it is clear of A before reaching B. The wheel can then move sideways or twist in the gap, hitting the point tip or even taking the wrong route (mis-tracking). As the crossing-angle gets flatter, the distance from A to B increases, and the problem gets worse. Even the prototype has problems with this, that's why there is a limit of 1:8 for fixed K-crossings, and less if on a curve. Matters can be improved if the check rail is raised above the running rail level, and this is now being done with some cast K-crossings. If you do that, there are potential problems with flangeless drivers on steam locos, so be aware of this.

 

For 00 and EM the flangeway gaps are significantly overscale, so the distance from A to B is very much longer than on the prototype and the check rails serve little purpose. Really the only solution is a switched-diamond.

 

You can improve matters a little by modifying the point tips as shown by the yellow line. This should help to keep flanges clear of hitting the tip, with the downside that the total width of gap in front of the tip may then exceed the wheel width, risking some wheel drop when running in the opposite direction on that rail. It's advisable to keep the 1mm flangeway at C, so that wheels travelling right to left get lined up with the crossing to minimize the risk of mis-tracking.

 

But really, a switched-diamond is the best answer. Did I mention that?

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[gordon s]

Thanks Martin, that's exactly what I wanted to know and can relate to everything in your post. Whilst exploring the wonderful world of diamonds, I have experienced all the problems you have described and would normally use used switched crossings. Unfortunately, this became a battle of wills for me, as I could see no real reason why they were my personal bette noir.

 

The crossing is part of an irregular double junction and the crossing angles are K 5.34/V 4.49 and K5.36/V 6.99 and I felt the blades were probably too short as a switched crossing. Then it became a challenge of man versus bits of nickel silver rail and I was determined to crack it. I eventually overcame it by opening the gap beyond the 1mm and it does work really well. The next ones will hopefully go together without problem as I now know the critical areas.

 

Thanks again for your drawing. It was very helpful.

[martin_wynne]

I eventually overcame it by opening the gap beyond the 1mm and it does work really well.

 

Hi Gordon,

 

Have you tried with your Ultrascale wheels? With wider gaps you may get some drop-in.

 

Martin.

[gordon s]

Not yet Martin, as I have not laid or wired this section. With any luck I should be able to do that in the next couple of weeks. I'll hold fire producing the others until I've checked that, so thanks for the tip off.

 

Right now everything is packed away as I wanted to work in a reasonably clear room, so I don't have easy access to stock.

 

Edit: Just found some Ultrascale wheels in a drawer and they rolled through the crossing perfectly cleanly with no sign of wheel drop, so one Happy Bunny.

[gordon s]

Managed to lay the last piece of track in Belle Isle before lunch, so now it's onto the wiring. I've played around with several types of underlay, but keep returning to cork as it's what I've used before and I find it easy to lay. The track bed is three strips of 22mm (7/8") and some chamfered edging. This works perfectly for me as the edge between the light brown cork strip and the darker brown cork edging is as near as dammit (0.5mm undersize) perfect for double track on 50mm spacing.

 

I lay the Templot plan on the board and tape it in place. Using a scalpel, I cut along the line of outer rails and remove the paper from between the two cuts. Spread the glue onto the bare board and slide the edge of the cork strip up to the paper edge of the plan where the two tracks have been removed. Once the first strip is in place, the plan can be removed and the two other cork strips added. Finally add the chamfered strips and that's it. Once dry, spread glue on the cork and then align the rail with the line between the light brown cork and darker edge. Pin in place with drawing pins onto the rails and once dry, remove the pins.

 

I hoping to hear some good news soon on the retaining wall front, otherwise it will be a case of exploring resin castings and hopefully producing my own.

 

[tender]

The track bed is three strips of 22mm (7/8") and some chamfered edging. This works perfectly for me as the edge between the light brown cork strip and the darker brown cork edging is as near as dammit (0.5mm undersize) perfect for double track on 50mm spacing.

 

 

Hi Gordon.

The track work as always looks superb. Can I ask if you buy the cork precut to the sizes mentioned or do you cut it down from a sheet?

Does the 22mm width allow you to 'pull' it around the shallow curves?

 

Ray.

[gordon s]

Thanks Ray...

 

I buy it in pre cut rolls of 100'. You can get various widths, but I use multiples of 7/8" for double track. Single track is a bit more fiddly in terms of getting the right width, so I hand chamfer the edges with a sandpaper block. For turnouts I hand cut 3mm cork floor tiles to the correct shape and then add the chamfered strip.

 

No problem for me forming the 22mm curves as I use fairly large radii on the long flowing curves. The minimum radius I use is 36" but most are considerably larger.

 

http://www.charlesca...ips.html#strips

Edited October 18, 2012 by gordon s

[Highlandman]

With regards to checking clearances on check and wing rails I seem to remember reading in this forum or elsewhere that some one had produce a clear acrylic coach floor with bogies attached. Each bogie had a wheel set fitted from a different manufacturer, eg Alan Gibson, Ultrascale etc. As you rolled the wagon coach over the point work, you could look through the floor and see how each wheel set behaved. I suppose another alternative would be to hace a simmple bogie with one type of wheel at one end another manufaturers at the other to test how they would run through your track work.

 

As always this is a fascinating and informative thread and it's great to see the thought process and pitfalls that can befall a large project. Keep up the great work.

[nathan9117]

This layout is a work of art in my 7 years of been a railway modeler i have only found 2 layouts in the whole world that qualify to be in my top layouts. 1 is camelot junction and 2 is your layout it is a master piece. I am interested in where you got the copper clad sleepers from i am in need of some code 100 pieces of copper clad sleeper so that i can make my self a custom curved crossover it will consist of 2 curved points but all as one thank you. I have realy enjoyed looking through your many pages of the layout and will continue to for insparation .

[hayfield]

Copperclad sleeper strip can be obtained from C&L http://www.finescale.org.uk/ and Marcway http://www.marcway.co.uk/trackm.htm http://www.smpscaleway.com/

 

Like quite a few folh I started off with SMP kits (now owned by Marcway) and strip, these were made from Paxoline and cut with a guillotine (widths varied) I have used C&L for some time as they use glassfiber strip and it is cut with a router, giving constant width and nice square edges, would always advise the use of glassfiber strip over Paxoline. Marcway also offer glassfiber strip as well as paxoline.

[nathan9117]

Copperclad sleeper strip can be obtained from C&L http://www.finescale.org.uk/ and Marcway http://www.marcway.co.uk/trackm.htm http://www.smpscaleway.com/

 

Like quite a few folh I started off with SMP kits (now owned by Marcway) and strip, these were made from Paxoline and cut with a guillotine (widths varied) I have used C&L for some time as they use glassfiber strip and it is cut with a router, giving constant width and nice square edges, would always advise the use of glassfiber strip over Paxoline. Marcway also offer glassfiber strip as well as paxoline.

Thanks for that C&L it will be then i think it is cheaper to buy the copper clad than it would be to spend on a huge piece of pointwork and i enjoyed making my first ever one

[gordon s]

Thanks for replying to Nathan, John. You beat me to it...

 

A few more days have passed and in between reading RMWeb, I cleared away the last remnants of the earlier ET and once the track was removed, the boards were cut up and the S household won't be cold this winter. This latest section will sit below the front windows and will run behind, but at a lower level than ET terminus.

 

I managed to cut the BB's in half and have ended up with boards 4' x 1'. Not ideal as they stand at the moment as whilst they retain all the plus points in terms of support, a long thin board is certainly very flexible and twists easily. Of course that will all be dealt with once the end curves are in place and further fixings in place to the terminus board.

 

The second double junction has been completed and with a little more care I got the gaps down to 1mm and managed to get stock running through freely. I'm quite tempted now to rework the first one, although what's a half mm between friends. I guess most people won't even notice, but somehow we undertake these tasks because we know they contain a compromise.

 

Despite all my planning, I have to own up to an oversight. I had overlooked the outer pair of lines will start the gradient just outside this junction and by the end of the board will be some 30mm higher than the inner loops. I may have to move the whole board inwards to gain additional clearance and whilst this may only be 50-100mm, it will require some adjustment to the corner board which is the next one on the list.

 

At this stage, I am only laying the track, as I want to make sure all is OK, before adding the Tortoise motors and wiring. Then of course the track needs painting and ballasting before being permanently moved into position.

 

Getting there....

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2012 by gordon s

[PhilH]

Looking good Gordon.

 

permanently

 

What? Is this the Eastwood Town thread?