Gresley suburbans

[coachmann]

Although Hornby has plundered Fozzy's Gresley non-corridor range, he still has some that Hornby will never produce, like the reversed brake third.

[dave flint]

 

As I speculated in the 'cheap toys' thread, they may be the work of different subcontractors.

 

So how much gets sub contracted then ? In my mind, I'm pretty certain that Bachmann have a design team working in England at the UK head office, and presumed Hornby would do the same. To me, the design "style" of these two Hornby models differs substantially, so is design done by the subcontractors too ?

[spamcan61]

 

So how much gets sub contracted then ? In my mind, I'm pretty certain that Bachmann have a design team working in England at the UK head office, and presumed Hornby would do the same. To me, the design "style" of these two Hornby models differs substantially, so is design done by the subcontractors too ?

 

I don't know, and I strongly suspect Hornby aren't going to tell us, I'm just speculating based on comments in their last few financial reports about increasing their supplier base, as the two products do indeed look like the work of different teams.

 

EDIT: The only product where Hornby did go on record as stating that the bulk of the design work of the production model was carried out by a Chinese (IIRC) sub contractor was the live steam locos, the development of which was featured in one of the BRM annuals.

Edited November 21, 2011 by spamcan61

[The Stationmaster]

 

So how much gets sub contracted then ? In my mind, I'm pretty certain that Bachmann have a design team working in England at the UK head office, and presumed Hornby would do the same. To me, the design "style" of these two Hornby models differs substantially, so is design done by the subcontractors too ?

Various reports and things that have been linked in the 'cheap toys' thread indicate that Hornby has a design office of some sort in the UK but whether it is involved with the railway part of their empire is not clear.

 

But as I understand it what they do not have is any toolmaking capability - but that is no different from just about everyone else in the 00/4mm business. From what I have heard from others and what we have learnt from various threads on RMWeb I think product fidelity is down to proper/clear initial specification plus, certainly with some Chinese factories, close and careful management of development & production to that specification. Failure to invest the time, understanding, and constructive criticism during that part of the process and you will get what the Chinese want you to have or think you should have and then it's too late or expensive to correct unless you have a really good contract and spec you can throw at them; no different from any other business really and it probably tells you more about the UK client than it does about the Chinese factory.

[Bernard Lamb]

 

But as I understand it what they do not have is any toolmaking capability - but that is no different from just about everyone else in the 00/4mm business. Failure to invest the time, understanding, and constructive criticism during that part of the process and you will get what the Chinese want you to have or think you should have and then it's too late or expensive to correct unless you have a really good contract and spec you can throw at them; no different from any other business really and it probably tells you more about the UK client than it does about the Chinese factory.

That also applies to rather large sections of the automobile industry these days. As one particular company found out to it's cost when the tooling for the body of it's first 4 x 4 was made in Turkey.

These coaches certainly seem to be living up to expectations. One on order to drool over for now and keeping a close watch for the brake to be released.

Bernard

[MikeTrice]

E81025E allocated to the Southern Scottish Area and later Scottish Region, so shouldn't it be SC81025E ?

E82326E allocated to the GE Section and remained there

Not according to the information sheets produced by the LNERSG and available on lner.info.

[Pint of Adnams]

81025 was originally 31875, so was already in the Southern Scottish Area. What happened to it and the others that weren't transferred to the Scottish Region then? I don't currently have access to Bishop to check.

[MikeTrice]

81025 was originally 31875, so was already in the Southern Scottish Area. What happened to it and the others that weren't transferred to the Scottish Region then? I don't currently have access to Bishop to check.

There is a photo of 81025 on page 86 of Harris' LNER Standard Gresley Coaches taken in 1955 still showing the E81025E version of the number.

[iL Dottore]

I'm tempted to stray from all things GWR for these beauties, I manged to examine one "close up and personal" at Warley and I am most impressed

Not my thing this, nor is the 4VEP, but one must wonder how both these models came from the same manufacturer. These look excellent

I suspect it's mostly down to the budget. In other words if a manufacturer wants to place a model within a certain retail price range (because the manufacturer believes this is the price bracket which will both provide an acceptable return on investment and sales numbers), then when you take ALL manufacturing and business costs into account, the manufacturer will have but so much to spend on the materials going into the production of each model. The manufacturer has to decide which on compromise(s) to adopt. So, for example not using traction tyres to improving pulling power and putting in a metal chassis for weight instead (or whatever the choice turns out to be), could mean the manufacturer is faced with putting up the the RRP or saving production costs elsewhere. Which may explain how some exquisite models are let down by choice of powertrain

Edited November 22, 2011 by iL Dottore

[MikeTrice]

I have FINALLY seen these in the flesh, so to speak, and could not resist posting the following detailed images. I hope they speak for themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Roll on the teak versions ;-)

[CUTLER2579]

Mike,

what superb coaches at such a price. Amazing.

Regards.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Can't recommend them enough Mike and I'm very much looking forward to completing my Carlisle-Hawick rake with the compo and brake third.

 

Dave.

[MikeTrice]

Missed one, sorry.

 

[coachmann]

Amazing detail even on the ends and bufferbeams Mike. Can you tell us Hornby's full range? 6-compartment brake third by any chance?

[MikeTrice]

Amazing detail even on the ends and bufferbeams Mike. Can you tell us Hornby's full range? 6-compartment brake third by any chance?

Not certain I understand your reference to "full range". There are 4 suburbans due, 2 of which we have already seen. Still to come are the CL and 4 comp brake third.

The only other additions I am aware of are the corridor full brake and the buffet car in blue/grey livery.

[coachmann]

"Full range" was a reference to the coach under discussion...The Gresley non-corridor coaches. Thanks for the info on the composite and 4-compartment brake third. My reason for asking about a 6-compartment brake was the idea I had of converting it to a push & pull driving trailer.

[micklner]

Very nice , the Teaks should be stunning

[Fenman]

I have FINALLY seen these in the flesh, so to speak, and could not resist posting the following detailed images. I hope they speak for themselves.

 

Roll on the teak versions ;-)

 

On the basis of the two variants I've received so far, I immediately slapped in an order for a rake of teak suburbans even though I have no plans for anything for which they would be relevant. But these crimsons are superb, and a pre-order for an apple green B17 then had to follow. And for some more of these crimsons.

 

I have to say, whenever glancing at the pages and pages of stuff about Hornby on the "cheap toys" and VEP thread, my mind won't stop thinking about these beautiful suburbans. When Hornby get it right, they get it completely right!

 

Paul

[robertcwp]

"Full range" was a reference to the coach under discussion...The Gresley non-corridor coaches. Thanks for the info on the composite and 4-compartment brake third. My reason for asking about a 6-compartment brake was the idea I had of converting it to a push & pull driving trailer.

I think some 4-compartment brakes of the diagram Hornby are doing were converted for push-pull too.

[benachie]

There is a photo of 81025 on page 86 of Harris' LNER Standard Gresley Coaches taken in 1955 still showing the E81025E version of the number.

There was a very useful discussion about SC etc allocation here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/17272-sc-prefixed-coach-numbers/page__hl__%2Bscottish+%2Ballocation__fromsearch__1

As I understand it, the regional allocation had to do with money (responsibilty for repairs) and many coaches that were never ever ouside Scotland never got SC labelling.

Alan

[benachie]

I think some 4-compartment brakes of the diagram Hornby are doing were converted for push-pull too.

All in Scotland, mostly NSA for running the St. Combs branch.

Alan

[MikeTrice]

There was a very useful discussion about SC etc allocation here

http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1

As I understand it, the regional allocation had to do with money (responsibilty for repairs) and many coaches that were never ever ouside Scotland never got SC labelling.

Alan

The photo in question claims to have been taken in Peterborough.

 

If what you say is true regarding not all vehicles getting their SC prefix then we really have a minefield to catch out the unwary.

[benachie]

The photo in question claims to have been taken in Peterborough.

 

If what you say is true regarding not all vehicles getting their SC prefix then we really have a minefield to catch out the unwary.

I fear so - a photograph is really essential. But, even if a coach were known to have an SC allocation, it could have taken years for the "SC" to be applied. For example, the caption to the Harris picture claims that 81025 was still in teak in 1955. Perhaps it was never in crimson!

Alan

[DS239]

Various reports and things that have been linked in the 'cheap toys' thread indicate that Hornby has a design office of some sort in the UK but whether it is involved with the railway part of their empire is not clear.

 

Hornby R&D is done at Westwood,[ground floor on the left,as you face the main entrance] that said, Sanda Kan did do the design work on the Hitachi 'Javelin' model,but I think this was the exception to the rule...

[benachie]

I asked this query on the painting etc. forum but got no reply. Hope it also fits here:-

I'm thinking of converting one of the new Hornby Gresley suburban Firsts to a Diagram 188/189 Composite. The renumbering and removal of some of the "1"s is easy enough, but how do I get rid of the "First" signs on the glazing?

Alan