Dave777 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Useful to show just how rust free they were in the early 60s. I thought the body was wonky on the chassis in the first pic, but I think it's actually the end door slightly ajar that gives the impression. Question is, when is Mr Fleming going to finally sit down and author 'The Definitive Modellers Guide to the 16t Mineral Wagon'...? (Santona, full colour, £18.99) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 class 40 hauled at Morpeth in 1981. http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/6714013881/in/pool-cfas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hollacomb gasworks 1967 with a Ruston 44ds? http://www.flickr.com/photos/glevumblues/6492962537/in/photostream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 a nice shiny one behind a class 40 in the 1970s. http://www.flickr.com/photos/actonwellsjunction/6062612178/in/photostream/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) So what's occuring there then? Newly built (were they still being built then?), recently tarted up for TOPS coding? Edited January 27, 2012 by Dave777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Almost certainly fresh from re-bodying/overhaul Dave, and a rare thing: a photo which really does show an ex-works vehicle in traffic. Adam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Almost certainly straight from Horwich Works; this would have been towards the end of the re-bodying programme. Most of the vehicles had been 16 tonners to start off with, but Horwich did 400 or so using under-frames from a selection of Palbricks, Shell-Case and other wagons with a 10' wheelbase and bodies a foot longer. Depending on the donor, some had roller-bearings, whilst there were several types of brake-gear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 So what's occuring there then? Newly built (were they still being built then?), recently tarted up for TOPS coding? Last properly new builds were 1959; as others have said it's a rebody. The giveaway is the lack of top flaps - whilst early post war construction also lacked these, not many of those were still in traffic in 1970 when the rebodying programme started, so you can fairly reliably say that if a wagon in a 1970s shot has no top flaps and is in good nick, it's a rebody. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 All good info, thanks chaps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Almost certainly straight from Horwich Works; this would have been towards the end of the re-bodying programme. Most of the vehicles had been 16 tonners to start off with, but Horwich did 400 or so using under-frames from a selection of Palbricks, Shell-Case and other wagons with a 10' wheelbase and bodies a foot longer. Depending on the donor, some had roller-bearings, whilst there were several types of brake-gear. The rebodying programme lasted along time - until 1979 at least http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralclaspvb/e2c5a6886 There are plenty in my collections, including rebodied unfitted minerals http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/efe7fab4 Note that an important difference to the originals is that the bottom of body curves into the floor, instead of ending in a sharp corner. Some of the longer 10ft wb ones with a 17ft 6 in body are here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mineralmcv10ft - the prototype following the models of that period, which had used longer underframes for many years! Paul Bartlett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) The rebodying programme lasted along time - until 1979 at least http://PaulBartlett....aspvb/e2c5a6886 There are plenty in my collections, including rebodied unfitted minerals http://PaulBartlett....alweld/efe7fab4 Note that an important difference to the originals is that the bottom of body curves into the floor, instead of ending in a sharp corner. Some of the longer 10ft wb ones with a 17ft 6 in body are here http://paulbartlett..../mineralmcv10ft - the prototype following the models of that period, which had used longer underframes for many years! Paul Bartlett IIRC the early re-bodies built before the major programme which started in 1970 were exactly the same,with the exception of the top flap doors, as the originals, retaining the the lip at the the bottom of the side & end sheeting( edge of the floor), somewhat strangely as it was this intersection that was the cause of much of the rust problem Nigel Edited January 30, 2012 by rsv1000r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 IIRC the early re-bodies built before the major programme which started in 1970 were exactly the same,with the exception of the top flap doors, as the originals, retaining the the lip at the the bottom of the side sheeting( edge of the floor), somewhat strangely as it was this intersection that was the cause of much of the rust problem Probably because nobody had actually thought to do it differently. One wagon that intrigues me (there'll be others like it I'm sure) is B159653 in Dave Larkin's 'Working Wagons 2', pic dated spring '75. It has a plain plate in lieu of the top flap, not that that's unusual at that time but it does indicate that the basic structure is original, yet the panels have the radiused bottom edge but there is no discernible plating line, suggesting that these have been cut out and replaced in their entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Probably because nobody had actually thought to do it differently. One wagon that intrigues me (there'll be others like it I'm sure) is B159653 in Dave Larkin's 'Working Wagons 2', pic dated spring '75. It has a plain plate in lieu of the top flap, not that that's unusual at that time but it does indicate that the basic structure is original, yet the panels have the radiused bottom edge but there is no discernible plating line, suggesting that these have been cut out and replaced in their entirety. & the fixed end as well by the looks of things as the bottom lip is missing from there as well Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 & the fixed end as well by the looks of things as the bottom lip is missing from there as well I did kinda think 'the panels' would cover that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just found this photo of a rake of new-ish 16 tonners on Callow Lane: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) http://www.gnsra.org.uk/gnsra_gallery_misc40.htm I like this shot, not so much for the wagon itself as the way it almost appears to be in the backyard of the cottages B) Edited February 5, 2012 by Pennine MC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard of the Moor Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Not sure where you were attempting to link to there, Ian. Some nice 16 tonners at Elgin here: http://www.gnsra.org.uk/images/gallery/PG07_Gas_lamp_in_Elgin_yard_late_60s_733.jpg The one at the extreme left can give hope to all of us who can never remember where the end door stripe should point to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Not sure where you were attempting to link to there, Ian. Now edited, that site seems to produce different 'urls' depending how you access the pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) one behind a class 20 and a peak.. http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream Edited February 19, 2012 by michael delamar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Clean for 1980. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Clean for 1980. Again a rebody, but starting to go a bit naughty - look at the top capping, the side door strapping and the big streak down the LH panel. I dont think those locos are a random combo either, I think the 20 could be coming south after overhaul at Glasgow. You can see the reflection of the double arrow in the cab end panel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'm sure I posted this before, but can't find it in the thread? Modern Railways, c1961/62, carried a short article, I believe with pictures, concerning the brightening up of the image of goods trains. Reference was made to 16t minerals experimentally painted - GREEN ! I'll have to have a look in the loft at my old mags. Stewart edit to correct spelling mistake Success! I've just found the article, Trains Illustrated July 1961, concerning the Marylebone Exhibition in May 1961. There is a discussion on what was on show, with a header photo showing 4 wagons in experimental liveries, including what seems to be DB80826 ? or similar, in DARK GREEN livery. For copyright reasons I can't put the pic on here though. Stewart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 ..., including what seems to be DB80826 ? or similar, in DARK GREEN livery. Hmmm. I appreciate the number may not be properly legible Stewart, but I do wonder if that combination of colour and prefix signifies an early incarnation of olive green... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hmmm. I appreciate the number may not be properly legible Stewart, but I do wonder if that combination of colour and prefix signifies an early incarnation of olive green... Actually, the number is barely readable - looking at it since I do not think it is a DB prefix at all. You have a PM Stewart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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