Guest stuartp Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) It's the tare weight in tons and cwts. It varied a bit between allegedly identical wagons, personally I don't worry within a ton or so but then I can't see them without my glasses on either. Edited December 5, 2011 by stuartp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ... the bottom RH corner of the wagon has the numbers 7 - 11 on a black box. The sheet has different numbers for the various wagon numbers eg 8 - 1 8 - 17 and so forth. ... What's the signifcance of these numbers? I guess it's something obvious staring me in the face but am having a mental block. It's the tare (unladen) weight, applied for charging purposes so that it could be subtracted from the gross weight when the wagon + load combo was weighed. Very generally, a Morton (single sided) braked 16T mineral would tend to be lighter than one with double/independent gear or with vac brakes, but the potential range does vary quite widely between the 'upper sixes' and the 'mid eights' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted December 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2011 Thanks guys, quick replies much appreciated - hopefully I can apply some transfers this afternoon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Far be it for Grasshopper to challenge the acknowledged master on wagonology but a few thoughts: There were 7(?) 3F in 1960 and all had gone by late 1962. Not sure which one I'll be renumbering mine to, but obviously it will have to be a survivor, and have some modellers licence for visiting the Aylesbury area. No doubt someone will tell me the specific gubbins on the Bachmann release relate to ones which were cut up earlier.....! I would query the "late 1962" date as I have a colour slide of the last three at Derby and I ddin't start taking slides until October 1963 when I bought an Agfa Sllette. IIRC they were 43342, 43658 and 43669. That doesn't say when they last worked though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 nice shot of 2 16t mineral wagons here.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5958981384/in/pool-60sdiesels 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Some fancy chalk writing on that first one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2011 Interesting weathering detail too; the old rust (presumably) showing through later paint and not brown, and the range of colours on the u/f and running gear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 one being unloaded... http://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6454429733/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (and the next photo along too - cracking weathering reference photo ) You're doing well finding these. The more I view ones showing the internal detail around the doors the more I'm thinking that something can be done to improve RTR models in that respect. Has anyone tackled that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (and the next photo along too - cracking weathering reference photo ) You're doing well finding these. The more I view ones showing the internal detail around the doors the more I'm thinking that something can be done to improve RTR models in that respect. Has anyone tackled that? It would be nice if there were more views of the interiors of open vehicles available- even if you're not going to detail the inside, it would be useful to have some idea of weathering patterns and so on. The neglect of this area is ironic, given the normal viewing angles for most peoples' models. Here's an inspirational shot of a 16 tonner's big brother to whet the appetite:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mdo/h3c64309a#h3c64309a Noticeable features include the side doors not being flush with the interior of the sides, and the plates above the doors with the prominent bolt/rivet heads for the external catches. It would be awkward to reproduce some of this with injection moulding; perhaps there is something to be said for the seperate doors of the Airfix kit.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (and the next photo along too - cracking weathering reference photo ) This one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6454428569/in/photostream/ Interesting vehicle, I dont think the patch painting is random, think it's had one of the various 'disposal' brandings applied, possibly 'SUBEX2' which IIRC was for vehicles sidelined for inspection but not actually condemned, and was painted out if the wagon was found to be OK. Look at the wagon to its right also - at a glance at at more distance, you'd take it for 'overall' rust but there are several distinct shades in interesting disposition. Similarly the second wagon in Mike's shot is only moderately rusted on the sides, but heavy on the ends - modellers I think often apply rust flakes in a too evenly 'spaced out' pattern, possibly subconsciously. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 ....think it's had one of the various 'disposal' brandings applied, possibly 'SUBEX2' SUBEX2 - I read an interview with him. He couldn't handle his partner's fame after she won Britain's Got Talent, and so he broke off the relationship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The bottom of the sides is showing signs of 'duff rot'. Wagon-loads of anthracite duff for export (very fine coal dust, used for briquettes and in some types of industrial boilers) would be held at locations such as Burry Port yard, Llandeilo Junction, and the various yards around Swansea docks until the ship arrived. They'd then be called forward to the sidings in the docks themselves to be tipped. By this time, some wagons would have been loaded for a week or more; given the normal weather conditions of the area ("if you can see the Gower, it's going to rain; if you can't, it's already started") and the slightly acidic nature of the load, the wagon sides would start to rot through at the join to the floor. Coedbach would often put straw around the edges of the floor before loading to stop the coal trickling out during its journey to the docks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 This one: http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ Interesting vehicle, I dont think the patch painting is random, think it's had one of the various 'disposal' brandings applied, possibly 'SUBEX2' which IIRC was for vehicles sidelined for inspection but not actually condemned, and was painted out if the wagon was found to be OK. Look at the wagon to its right also - at a glance at at more distance, you'd take it for 'overall' rust but there are several distinct shades in interesting disposition. Similarly the second wagon in Mike's shot is only moderately rusted on the sides, but heavy on the ends - modellers I think often apply rust flakes in a too evenly 'spaced out' pattern, possibly subconsciously. I agree about the painting out of a subex or something similar. If the date is correct (which I accept it is) then this is amazing survivor. BR does seem to have been systematic in weeding out the independently braked mineral wagons by circa 1967 (Morton brake came in 1951 on new build). The variation in 'rusting' on the mineral wagons is amazing. Some of the recent photographs show this well, the odd very badly rusted wagon - almost appearing unpainted, amongst many in reasonable condition. It is difficult to understand why the outside of these wagons deteriorated so badly, perhaps some of the manufacturers were not paying much attention to the quality of external finishing? Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 It would be nice if there were more views of the interiors of open vehicles available- even if you're not going to detail the inside, it would be useful to have some idea of weathering patterns and so on. The neglect of this area is ironic, given the normal viewing angles for most peoples' models. Here's an inspirational shot of a 16 tonner's big brother to whet the appetite:- http://paulbartlett....4309a#h3c64309a Noticeable features include the side doors not being flush with the interior of the sides, and the plates above the doors with the prominent bolt/rivet heads for the external catches. It would be awkward to reproduce some of this with injection moulding; perhaps there is something to be said for the seperate doors of the Airfix kit.. Brian has picked up that I have added considerably to this collection recently. There are other similar overhead shots, http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mdo/e394a09f which shows the effect of steel plating being replaced. And this of one with the door open http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mdo/e282846b6 (although not good being against the light). This one http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mdo/e142a4b4b has been in the collection for years. Paul Bartlett 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) http://www.flickr.co...N08/6454422593/ rather unusual repair behind the end stanchions on this one, & noticably bluer shade of grey used for the repainted area Nigel Edited January 1, 2012 by rsv1000r Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) http://www.flickr.co...N08/6454422593/ rather unusual repair behind the end stanchions on this one, Hmmm, you often see patch painting there, I'd suspect over some welding bodge on the uprights themselves, but the plating patches are less common (though you can see similar on the sides of wagons, often near the door posts) Edited January 1, 2012 by Pennine MC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hmmm, you often see patch painting there, I'd suspect over some welding bodge on the uprights themselves, but the plating patches are less common (though you can see similar on the sides of wagons, often near the door posts) they appear to be ijn layers if you look closely, rectangular behind each stanchion, over layed with a triangular patch either side of the stanchion?? Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) I'm sure I posted this before, but can't find it in the thread? Modern Railways, c1961/62, carried a short article, I believe with pictures, concerning the brightening up of the image of goods trains. Reference was made to 16t minerals experimentally painted - GREEN ! I'll have to have a look in the loft at my old mags. Stewart edit to correct spelling mistake Edited January 1, 2012 by stewartingram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I'm sure I posted this before, but can't find it in the thread? ... 16t minerals experimentally painted - GREEN ! I'll have to have a look in the loft at my old mags. Please do Stewart, I think I would remember that if you'd posted it before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I seem to recall one of the RTR manufacturers doing minerals in ICI branding that were green - was that prototypical? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I seem to recall one of the RTR manufacturers doing minerals in ICI branding that were green - was that prototypical? Greeny blue Dave (dependent on your colour perception), it was a Mainline model of a wagon bought by ICi for soda ash use: http://paulbartlett....com/icibulksoda (these few pics are of wagons in poor condition, hence the ICI paint isnt too apparent) (edit - 2nd one down, LH column): http://www.mainliner...A/RearCover.jpg Edited January 2, 2012 by Pennine MC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I would query the "late 1962" date as I have a colour slide of the last three at Derby and I ddin't start taking slides until October 1963 when I bought an Agfa Sllette. IIRC they were 43342, 43658 and 43669. That doesn't say when they last worked though. Quite a lot lasted into 1960 (I think about 125) but only 7 made it into 1963. Edited January 2, 2012 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 this is a really nice 16t mineral shot.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6560855437/in/photostream 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 and another http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6067416396/in/photostream 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now