16t minerals

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, Axlebox said:

there are some lovely aerial photos of Sunderland

 ...   and Roker Park.

[Mol_PMB]

Is there a comparable thread to this dealing with private owner mineral wagons? 

Mostly wooden-bodied pre-WWII but some post-pooling early BR.

If so, I've got some material for it. But a quick search didn't find a suitable thread.

[john new]

7 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Is there a comparable thread to this dealing with private owner mineral wagons? 

Mostly wooden-bodied pre-WWII but some post-pooling early BR.

If so, I've got some material for it. But a quick search didn't find a suitable thread.

Why not start it? The mods can always merge them if they/or anyone else notices that there is already another one.

[Mark Saunders]

A new topic for RCH minerals would work well as there is only a small crossover with 16 ton ones!

[Mol_PMB]

13 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

A new topic for RCH minerals would work well as there is only a small crossover with 16 ton ones!

Thanks Mark, I have started one here:

 

Cheers,

Mol

[Axlebox]

Its funny what turns up when you least expect it...

 

 

 

16tonners with German markings and used to transport plucky British POWs...

 

 

Fast forward to 2.30

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Axlebox

[Porcy Mane]

Aberdeen.1981 08728. by Stephen Burdett, on Flickr

[Porcy Mane]

 

Shhhades of grey pass "Shhh! You know who".  (After William Franklin)

 

https://flic.kr/p/2n2573s

 

For those to young to remember.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Porcy Mane

[Mol_PMB]

Some great photos from Ernie on Flickr.

This 1955 shot shows two freshly-painted 16t minerals; the farther one may be new but the nearer one has double brakes and bottom doors so it is an ex-MOT type newly repainted.

The other mineral wagon really belongs in the RCH Minerals thread!

 

This shot dated 1960 gives us a nice view of what the inside of a 16t mineral ought to look like (one of my jobs for this evening is achieving this in a Peco diagram 1/102)

Various stages of body corrosion in 1966:

What a lovely shot this is! Wagons not all brim-full, interesting.

Pit-props as a return load in mineral wagons:

Nice view of a diagram 1/102:

 

[john new]

5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Some great photos from Ernie on Flickr.

This 1955 shot shows two freshly-painted 16t minerals; the farther one may be new but the nearer one has double brakes and bottom doors so it is an ex-MOT type newly repainted.

The other mineral wagon really belongs in the RCH Minerals thread!

 

This shot dated 1960 gives us a nice view of what the inside of a 16t mineral ought to look like (one of my jobs for this evening is achieving this in a Peco diagram 1/102)

Various stages of body corrosion in 1966:

What a lovely shot this is! Wagons not all brim-full, interesting.

Pit-props as a return load in mineral wagons:

Nice view of a diagram 1/102:

 

Off topic, as related to the loco in the upper image but I don’t recall seeing one of those US style pilot?/cow-catchers before on a UK loco.  Where was that shot taken?

Edited February 9, 2022 by john new

[Porcy Mane]

46 minutes ago, john new said:

Where was that shot taken?

 

 Fraserburgh. Cow catchers were fitted to locos for working the un-fenced branch to St Combs.

 

Here's another.

[hmrspaul]

22 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Some great photos from Ernie on Flickr.

This 1955 shot shows two freshly-painted 16t minerals; the farther one may be new but the nearer one has double brakes and bottom doors so it is an ex-MOT type newly repainted.

The other mineral wagon really belongs in the RCH Minerals thread!

 

This shot dated 1960 gives us a nice view of what the inside of a 16t mineral ought to look like (one of my jobs for this evening is achieving this in a Peco diagram 1/102)

Various stages of body corrosion in 1966:

 

What a lovely shot this is! Wagons not all brim-full, interesting.

 

Pit-props as a return load in mineral wagons:

 

Nice view of a diagram 1/102:

 

Although in b/w that final photo is a great one in the arguments about "what is BR grey". May not be 50 shades, but at least 3!

 

As mentioned one of the MoT minerals - appears to be one of those built by RoF Woolwich and these were usually in a bauxite or red oxide finish when new, but this one has had plenty of body work. It is a pity the end door cannot be seen. 

 

Paul 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

Can anyone point me towards photos of Diagram 1/101 (Hurst Nelson) 16t mineral wagons?

I am aware of the one in David Larkin's 'The Acquired Wagons of British Railways', volume 2, page 58, which he says is the only known photo. It is from the fixed end, so does not show the end door.

The same book also has two photos of their PO predecessors on p11 and p49; these have some differences to the Diagram 1/101.

 

Paul Bartlett's collection includes photos of a couple in much later life by which time they had been modified somewhat.

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmowtmineral/e1c90d53f

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmowtmineral/e13aa9b14

 

The wagon diagram shows a pressed end door with diagonal reinforcement in a \|/ shape, and three vertical ribs above the end door (normal mineral wagons have 5).

The one of Paul's photos which appears to have an original pressed end door shows the door reinforcement in a /|\ pattern. Of course this might not be original either. Also both Paul's photos show only one vertical rib above the end door.

So any more photos of this type would be very helpful if some of the experts on here can point me in the right direction.

 

Back story: at present I'm building up a train of 16T minerals in 7mm scale, trying to get some variety of diagrams.

I like to choose individual wagons that can be associated with the Manchester Ship Canal Railways or the Irlam/Glazebrook area, either with photos or evidence such as this wagon label, which is a diagram 1/101.

I'm thinking of modifying a Dapol 1/109 with new end door, modified sides to remove the top flaps, and a new underframe with the earlier pattern of W irons and brakes.

Many thanks,

Mol

 

[Sitham Yard]

Mol, as a new RMweb member I don't know if this has been mentioned before but the short lived Modellers' Backtrack magazine had a three part article by Peter Fidczuk covering 16T minerals and their predecessors. August-September 1991, October-November1991 and December 1991- January 1992 are the issues. On page 130 of the first of these is a small photo by R. H. G. Simpson of B12452 dating from late 1950's or early 1960's.  Only about a third of the end door is visible but no sign of a rib above the hinge. However the wagon has been modified/rebuilt with an end door without any visible reinforcement, just rivetted hinges, and a rivetted side door plus a double row of rivets along the bottom of the side.

 

If you are modifying the Dapol wagon don't forget the stanchions on the sides have to be shortened as they do not reach the lip at the top.

 

If you look at the diagrams 1/101 and 1/113 on the Barrowmore MRG website www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html they show the different pressed end doors you mention, diagram 1/113 being those wagons returned from France.

 

Andrew

Edited February 11, 2022 by Sitham Yard

[Mol_PMB]

Hi Andrew,

Many thanks for the detailed post - that’s really helpful. Especially pointing out some of the differences I had missed.

Also the reminder that these wagons were split between two diagrams (and number series) depending on whether they had been to France. 

I think the conversion is still practical, I’ll have a closer look at the details. 

Cheers,

Mol

[Mol_PMB]

A couple more photos of 16t minerals trawled from Flickr:

 

From Robert Gadsdon, the interesting wagons are on the left margin, I think diagram 1/103 and an ex-SNCF one.

 

This shot from Ernie has a bog-standard 1/108 in the foreground and a more interesting rake in the background including another ex-SNCF one:

[john new]

In the East Riding pictures thread an excellent rake of these at Hessle Haven.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by john new
Typo

[hmrspaul]

I don't think we have had this before - very nice MoT slope sided mineral in original finish - bauxite and not rewritten for BR ownership. The other ex PT wagons are nice, but what would have been great would have been to see more of those Coke wagons. Those dark ones I suspect are all ex PT or LMS and very few photos of either are known. 

 

 

[Porcy Mane]

10 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Those dark ones I suspect are all ex PT or LMS and very few photos of either are known. 

 

The colliery I served my time at, had a full fleet of Ex LMS coke hoppers. Some were still in use in 1980 but most had been scrapped by then or were stored on a disused track under the colliery screening plant where they were slowly buried under growing piles of stalagmite like colliery waste. I never took a single photograph.

 

I know of one published photo of one on the scrap line.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Porcy Mane
Add an "h".

[Mol_PMB]

A decade or more ago I bought several  7mm scale etched kits for various variants of those coke hoppers. I’ve never got round to building them, but I do find them very interesting vehicles. Not sure if the kits are still available now. 

 

[Mark Saunders]

2 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

The colliery I served my time at, had a full fleet of Ex LMS coke hoppers. Some were still in use in 1980 but most had been scrapped by then or were stored on a disused track under the colliery screening plant were they were slowly buried under growing piles of stalagmite like colliery waste. I never took a single photograph.

 

I know of one published photo of one on the scrap line.

Where was this ?

[Porcy Mane]

Just now, Mark Saunders said:

Where was this ?

 Hetton  (East)

[The Johnster]

One of my 1970s Canton bottom guard's link workings was a Radyr-Pensnett, originating from Abercwmboi. with these big hoppers, a class 8 train which I worked from Radyr to Gloucester for relief after secondmanning the loco off shed.  Stationmaster Mike will probably be able to furnish the headcode, loco was a 45 or 47, about half 3 or so off Radyr.  They were certainly impressive beasties, more so when you were walking down the long curved canyon between them and a rake of 21ton coal hoppers on the next road at Radyr to examine your train...  Going the other way, I remember the very impressive boom of doom noise they made over rail joints, but we had no booked working of the empties at Canton.

[Mark Saunders]

52 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 Hetton  (East)

The only East Hetton branded wagon I ever saw was one at South Hetton , if I recall correctly it was a NCB rebodied LNER hopper which I think survived to go to Springwell!

 

There were someCoke hoppers  at Ashington but they were sent to Pegswood where they were scrapped as they were too long for the tippler.

[Porcy Mane]

5 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

The only East Hetton branded wagon I ever saw was one at South Hetton

 

EH had wooden and steel hoppers. The last 20t wooden re-bodies to be delivered from Seaham was about 1978. Somewhere, I still have some of the dated  "one Journey only" transit labels but most were presented to colleagues on the collieries closure. They thought I was barmy for keeping them!

Mr Bartlett has some pics of these wagons after removal to South Hetton/Hawthorn on his website.

Here's a pic on Flickr of no 20 in front of the landsale incline. Watching the Hunslet push two hoppers up that bank was a sight to behold. Watching the loco stop the hoppers before they went off the end of the drops was even more spectacular.

 

NCB East Hetton, Hunslet 5304, 1981 by Murray Liston, on Flickr

Edited February 16, 2022 by Porcy Mane