Mark Saunders Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Porcy, not an ex LMS wagon but a rebuild of a design produced new by both Charles Roberts and Hurst Nelson for the NCB. They are 21' 6" over headstocks rather than the 25' of the coke hoppers. This is them as built before Seaham replaced the steel panels with Timber! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 14 hours ago, The Johnster said: One of my 1970s Canton bottom guard's link workings was a Radyr-Pensnett, originating from Abercwmboi. with these big hoppers, a class 8 train which I worked from Radyr to Gloucester for relief after secondmanning the loco off shed. Stationmaster Mike will probably be able to furnish the headcode, loco was a 45 or 47, about half 3 or so off Radyr. They were certainly impressive beasties, more so when you were walking down the long curved canyon between them and a rake of 21ton coal hoppers on the next road at Radyr to examine your train... Going the other way, I remember the very impressive boom of doom noise they made over rail joints, but we had no booked working of the empties at Canton. Sorry but these will have been BR Cokes. Yes the early ones wouldn't be distinguishable from the LMS built ones but it is those I'm referring to. Even Essery could only find a single official for his main book with a comment that he hadn't seen any later ones. Coke was very aggressive and the wagons had relatively short lives. Being built in 1930 and 1935 they probably died during the later 1950s - doubtless someone has condemnation details. I do have one photo of a PT version, probably taken mid 1950s https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/e216f6975 Paul 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlebox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 16/02/2022 at 00:37, Mark Saunders said: Porcy, not an ex LMS wagon but a rebuild of a design produced new by both Charles Roberts and Hurst Nelson for the NCB. They are 21' 6" over headstocks rather than the 25' of the coke hoppers. Is the hopper on the far left one of Porcy's cut down ex-coke hoppers? Kella pit was so far off the beaten track, not many people seem to have visited with a camera...and sadly I was more interested in the ex-LNER hoppers and ignored the NCB ones completely. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 It looks like it could be with one remaining rave on top of the body! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Axlebox said: and sadly I was more interested in the ex-LNER hoppers and ignored the NCB ones completely. ...and what a fine body of men. Sadly, like the hoppers, all now gone. Manufacturers please note, not a hint of orange overalls. 1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said: It looks like it could be with one remaining rave on top of the body! One and a half on most. Non on some, as with the Pegswood versions. What the phot doesn't illustrate is the rather fetching ice blue livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) Photo shared by Roger Gregory on Facebook, shared with permission. Original photographer not known. ‘At Stirling with an E.E. Type 4 No D260 on the up 'Saint Mungo' is greeted by E.E. Bo-Bo Type 1 Class 20 No D8104 on an unfitted freight; 8-6-65.’ Edited February 20, 2022 by Jamiel 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 A foray into the model 16t mineral world, here are some stages of my current project which is a conversion of a Dapol O gauge 1/109 to a 1/101: Mostly self-explanatory. Side top flaps removed and replaced with plain panels, end door sanded flat and new raised detail added: The replating at the base of the sides isn't original but does seem to be a typical repair for this type: A coat of paint to show the blemishes, and then the Archer rivet transfers added on the new seams: Close-up of some of the rivets: Close-up of the modified end door, this will need some rusty patches! Prototype here: https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmowtmineral/e18db6437 Chassis modifications include different brakes and W irons: Overview of progress so far, I still need to add the brakes and reassemble buffers/couplings etc: Some of these are rather cruel close-ups. I'm not aiming for 100% perfection as once it's had some coats of paint and moderately heavy weathering most of the rougher edges will disappear under the rust. When I get it finished and weathered I'll post another photo. Mol 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Here it is assembled and ready for lettering and weathering: And in comparison with two other Dapol rivetted wagons, 1/109 laden and weathered, and a conversion to 1/105 in the early stages of the weathering process: The 1/101 already stands out nicely, with the lack of top flap, chamfered side stanchions, unusual end door and the rivetted repairs to the bottom of the sides. Incidentally, can anyone give me some guidance about the load to go in this wagon? I want to load it with 'WD. Smalls' as per the wagon label below. Sounds a bit like army-issue underwear, but I'm sure it's coal... What range of lump sizes would be classed as WD Smalls? Presumably 12t10cwt would be a bit less than a full load in a 16t mineral? Cheers, Mol 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 36 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Here it is assembled and ready for lettering and weathering: And in comparison with two other Dapol rivetted wagons, 1/109 laden and weathered, and a conversion to 1/105 in the early stages of the weathering process: The 1/101 already stands out nicely, with the lack of top flap, chamfered side stanchions, unusual end door and the rivetted repairs to the bottom of the sides. Incidentally, can anyone give me some guidance about the load to go in this wagon? I want to load it with 'WD. Smalls' as per the wagon label below. Sounds a bit like army-issue underwear, but I'm sure it's coal... What range of lump sizes would be classed as WD Smalls? Presumably 12t10cwt would be a bit less than a full load in a 16t mineral? Cheers, Mol WD smalls; not MoD underwear, but 'Washed Smalls'. From what I've garnered from the Net, 'Smalls' would have been about 30mm, or just over an inch. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Fat Controller said: WD smalls; not MoD underwear, but 'Washed Smalls'. From what I've garnered from the Net, 'Smalls' would have been about 30mm, or just over an inch. All dependant on what type of coal it was, Anthracite, Bituminous, Welsh etc. and what district it was mined in. The Federation of British Industries proposed standardised selling sizes but due to different friability/densities but it was very difficult to implement. For instance Durham Coking Smalls at 1¼" to 2¼" was approx the same size of Yorkshire Derbyshire Double nuts @ 1" to 2" but the calorific value was different. The Colliery Guardian makes interesting reading on Nutty Slack (not). 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2022 13 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: a conversion to 1/105 in the early stages of the weathering process Noce work on these. It's always satisfying coming up with variations on r-t-r to make it a bit more unique. I can see the 1/105 has bottom door markings and independent brakes. Any body mods? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlebox Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time? https://rcts.zenfolio.com/rolling-stock/br ..a great place to look through period photos from the 50s and 60s with a good sprinkling of 16 tonners...get comfy with a coffee and enjoy the show (you can also buy prints of your favs). Armchair modelling at its best. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Hal Nail said: Noce work on these. It's always satisfying coming up with variations on r-t-r to make it a bit more unique. I can see the 1/105 has bottom door markings and independent brakes. Any body mods? Thanks. That's correct. The only body mods I did were to add a representation of the bottom doors in the floor. I probably ought to add some representation of the bottom door operating mechanism to the underframe, but it's not very noticeable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Sitham Yard Posted February 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Axlebox said: Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time? https://rcts.zenfolio.com/rolling-stock/br ..a great place to look through period photos from the 50s and 60s with a good sprinkling of 16 tonners...get comfy with a coffee and enjoy the show (you can also buy prints of your favs). Armchair modelling at its best. Thanks for this very useful resource that I was not aware of. Andrew 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Axlebox said: Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time? Doesn't seem that different to when the selling site was established how ever many years ago. Maybe the pandemic has had a slowing effect? Digital copies are pretty good though for us modellers. Edited February 21, 2022 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2022 45 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said: Digital copies are pretty good though for us modellers. HOW MUCH??? Think I'll stick with Paul thanks. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 53 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: HOW MUCH??? That's how you can afford to live on the banks of that reservoir. (They have gone up a bit though, since the last time I bought from them). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Axlebox said: Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time? https://rcts.zenfolio.com/rolling-stock/br ..a great place to look through period photos from the 50s and 60s with a good sprinkling of 16 tonners...get comfy with a coffee and enjoy the show (you can also buy prints of your favs). Armchair modelling at its best. Yes a good site but some of the descriptions are suspect, eg. a slope sided 16t mineral isn't a hopper wagon.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 32 minutes ago, davefrk said: Yes a good site but some of the descriptions are suspect, eg. a slope sided 16t mineral isn't a hopper wagon.... ... and one of the covhops is all over the place but then the good Mr. Larkin made some goofs on the Covhops. Have to say though, if it wasn't for Mr Larkins phots and publications we'd be in a far less enlightened place. Good to see you back Dave. You could be getting a visitation from Mr Axlebox this coming weekend so keep your head down. and Any idea when you'll be getting restocked with CR21's? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted February 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2022 Retford Duston West (Northampton) Northampton March Bargoed 17 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 14 minutes ago, Metr0Land said: Off-topic for this thread, but I wonder whether the bright yellow leaf springs on these Palvans were associated with trials to improve their riding? Not something I’d spotted in Palvan photos before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 There is an explanation in one of the official BR freight pamphlets. They were allowed to travel above the restricted speed imposed on these vans I think it was somthing to do with remedial work and receiving attention to the springs (balanced?). I'll see if I can dig it out to get the exact wording. P 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlebox Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said: Off-topic for this thread, but I wonder whether the bright yellow leaf springs on these Palvans were associated with trials to improve their riding? Not something I’d spotted in Palvan photos before. ...don't worry about going off topic for a while, no one shouts at you here...and our Uncle Poursea has a bit of a reputation for drifting on and off topic...so long as we get back to 16 tonners, eventually. From Martin Smiths excellent Flickr site...from which I found a link to this "off topic" gem (emgee63's flickr site) (there's a 2nd Ashworth Kirk pic in there for timber fans) Edited February 21, 2022 by Axlebox Ashworth Kirk 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Axlebox said: Uncle Poursea has a bit of a reputation for drifting on and off topic Have you seen the price of Cornish Clotted lately? Shameful! 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlebox Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 ...you watch, Uncle P won't be able to contain himself with this pic from seacoaler's flickr site... 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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