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16t minerals


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14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

One of my 1970s Canton bottom guard's link workings was a Radyr-Pensnett, originating from Abercwmboi. with these big hoppers, a class 8 train which I worked from Radyr to Gloucester for relief after secondmanning the loco off shed.  Stationmaster Mike will probably be able to furnish the headcode, loco was a 45 or 47, about half 3 or so off Radyr.  They were certainly impressive beasties, more so when you were walking down the long curved canyon between them and a rake of 21ton coal hoppers on the next road at Radyr to examine your train...  Going the other way, I remember the very impressive boom of doom noise they made over rail joints, but we had no booked working of the empties at Canton.

:offtopic:Sorry but these will have been BR Cokes. Yes the early ones wouldn't be distinguishable from the LMS built ones but it is those I'm referring to. Even Essery could only find a single official for his main book with a comment that he hadn't seen any later ones. Coke was very aggressive and the wagons had relatively short lives. Being built in 1930 and 1935 they probably died during the later 1950s - doubtless someone has condemnation details. 

 

I do have one photo of a PT version, probably taken mid 1950s https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/e216f6975

 

Paul

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On 16/02/2022 at 00:37, Mark Saunders said:

Porcy, not an ex LMS wagon but a rebuild of a design produced new by both Charles Roberts and Hurst Nelson for the NCB.  They are 21' 6" over headstocks rather than the 25' of the coke hoppers. 

 

Is the hopper on the far left one of Porcy's cut down ex-coke hoppers?  Kella pit was so far off the beaten track, not many people seem to have visited with a camera...and sadly I was more interested in the ex-LNER hoppers and ignored the NCB ones completely.

image.png.a431846a61369092584aa7a430c73c68.png

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2 hours ago, Axlebox said:

and sadly I was more interested in the ex-LNER hoppers and ignored the NCB ones completely.

 

...and what a fine body of men. Sadly, like the hoppers, all now gone. Manufacturers please note, not a hint of orange overalls.

 

1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said:

It looks like it could be with one remaining rave on top of the body!

 

One and a half on most. Non on some, as with the Pegswood versions. What the phot doesn't illustrate is the rather fetching ice blue livery.

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Photo shared by Roger Gregory on Facebook, shared with permission. Original photographer not known.
 

‘At Stirling with an E.E. Type 4 No D260 on the up 'Saint Mungo' is greeted by E.E. Bo-Bo Type 1 Class 20 No D8104 on an unfitted freight; 8-6-65.’

D260 D8104 8June1965.jpg

Edited by Jamiel
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A foray into the model 16t mineral world, here are some stages of my current project which is a conversion of a Dapol O gauge 1/109 to a 1/101:

Mostly self-explanatory.

1-101a.jpg.ac4657867cbc86fd8865201ed15ff658.jpg

Side top flaps removed and replaced with plain panels, end door sanded flat and new raised detail added:

1-101b.jpg.dd93f2bc90985d1b6fb39719502115c7.jpg

The replating at the base of the sides isn't original but does seem to be a typical repair for this type:

1-101c.jpg.f67ee5ed71d29400e0939cc97b170919.jpg

A coat of paint to show the blemishes, and then the Archer rivet transfers added on the new seams:

1-101e.jpg.9809814f04d35a6e54105b501dff6e82.jpg

 

1-101d.jpg.7a1833d7ea16c321da92dcc01acbff0f.jpg

Close-up of some of the rivets:

1-101g.jpg.2bb4e21ca28b706ed6c5376bf566a21c.jpg

Close-up of the modified end door, this will need some rusty patches!

1-101h.jpg.2a04c29266d537b323213d840fdaa36b.jpg

Prototype here:

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmowtmineral/e18db6437

 

Chassis modifications include different brakes and W irons:

1-101f.jpg.80c98c4b4e972a7e057efe2f8934c317.jpg

Overview of progress so far, I still need to add the brakes and reassemble buffers/couplings etc:

1-101i.jpg.ee7d413fba39bb486163b6f3950286c7.jpg

Some of these are rather cruel close-ups. I'm not aiming for 100% perfection as once it's had some coats of paint and moderately heavy weathering most of the rougher edges will disappear under the rust.

 

When I get it finished and weathered I'll post another photo.

Mol

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Here it is assembled and ready for lettering and weathering:

1-101k.jpg.6573fc8f41e1b5eb281a0d4b4bf03dea.jpg

And in comparison with two other Dapol rivetted wagons, 1/109 laden and weathered, and a conversion to 1/105 in the early stages of the weathering process:

1-101j.jpg.3c63fc77dc1fdabe712664ee17ff8e2a.jpg

The 1/101 already stands out nicely, with the lack of top flap, chamfered side stanchions, unusual end door and the rivetted repairs to the bottom of the sides.

 

Incidentally, can anyone give me some guidance about the load to go in this wagon?

I want to load it with 'WD. Smalls' as per the wagon label below. Sounds a bit like army-issue underwear, but I'm sure it's coal...

What range of lump sizes would be classed as WD Smalls? Presumably 12t10cwt would be a bit less than a full load in a 16t mineral?

s-l16009.jpg.160b60b8867968e6d8ee8b3d16ccbc64.jpg

Cheers,

Mol

 

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36 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Here it is assembled and ready for lettering and weathering:

1-101k.jpg.6573fc8f41e1b5eb281a0d4b4bf03dea.jpg

And in comparison with two other Dapol rivetted wagons, 1/109 laden and weathered, and a conversion to 1/105 in the early stages of the weathering process:

1-101j.jpg.3c63fc77dc1fdabe712664ee17ff8e2a.jpg

The 1/101 already stands out nicely, with the lack of top flap, chamfered side stanchions, unusual end door and the rivetted repairs to the bottom of the sides.

 

Incidentally, can anyone give me some guidance about the load to go in this wagon?

I want to load it with 'WD. Smalls' as per the wagon label below. Sounds a bit like army-issue underwear, but I'm sure it's coal...

What range of lump sizes would be classed as WD Smalls? Presumably 12t10cwt would be a bit less than a full load in a 16t mineral?

s-l16009.jpg.160b60b8867968e6d8ee8b3d16ccbc64.jpg

Cheers,

Mol

 

WD smalls; not MoD underwear, but 'Washed Smalls'. From what I've garnered from the Net, 'Smalls' would have been about 30mm, or just over an inch.

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1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

WD smalls; not MoD underwear, but 'Washed Smalls'. From what I've garnered from the Net, 'Smalls' would have been about 30mm, or just over an inch.

 

All dependant on what type of coal it was, Anthracite, Bituminous, Welsh etc. and what district it was mined in. The Federation of British Industries proposed standardised selling sizes but due to different friability/densities but it was very difficult to implement. For instance Durham Coking Smalls at 1¼" to 2¼" was approx the same size of Yorkshire Derbyshire Double nuts @ 1" to 2" but the calorific value was different.

The Colliery Guardian makes interesting reading on Nutty Slack  (not).

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13 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

a conversion to 1/105 in the early stages of the weathering process

Noce work on these. It's always satisfying coming up with variations on r-t-r to make it a bit more unique.

 

I can see the 1/105 has bottom door markings and independent brakes. Any body mods?

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Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time?

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/rolling-stock/br

 

..a great place to look through period photos from the 50s and 60s with a good sprinkling of 16 tonners...get comfy with a coffee and enjoy the show (you can also buy prints of your favs).

 

Armchair modelling at its best.

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1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

Noce work on these. It's always satisfying coming up with variations on r-t-r to make it a bit more unique.

 

I can see the 1/105 has bottom door markings and independent brakes. Any body mods?

Thanks. That's correct. The only body mods I did were to add a representation of the bottom doors in the floor.

I probably ought to add some representation of the bottom door operating mechanism to the underframe, but it's not very noticeable.

 

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1 hour ago, Axlebox said:

Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time?

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/rolling-stock/br

 

..a great place to look through period photos from the 50s and 60s with a good sprinkling of 16 tonners...get comfy with a coffee and enjoy the show (you can also buy prints of your favs).

 

Armchair modelling at its best.

Thanks for this very useful resource that I was not aware of.

Andrew

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1 hour ago, Axlebox said:

Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time?

 Doesn't seem that different to when the selling site was established how ever many years ago. Maybe the pandemic has had a slowing effect? Digital copies are pretty good though for us modellers.

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53 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

HOW MUCH???

 

 That's how you can afford to live on the banks of that reservoir.

 

(They have gone up a bit though, since the last time I bought from them).

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4 hours ago, Axlebox said:

Is it me or is the RCTS archive getting bigger all the time?

 

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/rolling-stock/br

 

..a great place to look through period photos from the 50s and 60s with a good sprinkling of 16 tonners...get comfy with a coffee and enjoy the show (you can also buy prints of your favs).

 

Armchair modelling at its best.

 

Yes a good site but some of the descriptions are suspect, eg. a slope sided 16t mineral isn't a hopper wagon....

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32 minutes ago, davefrk said:

Yes a good site but some of the descriptions are suspect, eg. a slope sided 16t mineral isn't a hopper wagon....

 

... and one of the covhops is all over the place but then the good Mr. Larkin made some goofs on the Covhops. Have to say though, if it wasn't for Mr Larkins phots and publications we'd be in a far less  enlightened place.

 

Good to see you back Dave. You could be getting a visitation from Mr Axlebox this coming weekend so keep your head down.

and

Any idea when you'll be getting restocked with CR21's?

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There is an explanation in one of the official BR freight pamphlets. They were allowed to travel above the restricted speed imposed on these vans I think it was somthing to do with remedial work and receiving attention to the springs (balanced?). I'll see if I can dig it out to get the exact wording.

 

P

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1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Off-topic for this thread, but I wonder whether the bright yellow leaf springs on these Palvans were associated with trials to improve their riding? Not something I’d spotted in Palvan photos before. 

...don't worry about going off topic for a while, no one shouts at you here...and our Uncle Poursea has a bit of a reputation for drifting on and off topic...so long as we get back to 16 tonners, eventually. 

 

Associated Humber Lines cargo vessel loading at Goole docks  - not the MV York as this vessel has Bipod's only and no goalpost derricks.

 

From Martin Smiths excellent Flickr site...from which I found a link to this "off topic" gem (emgee63's flickr site) (there's a 2nd Ashworth Kirk pic in there for timber fans)

 

Boston Docks 1968

 

Edited by Axlebox
Ashworth Kirk
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