Adam's EM Workbench: Farewell for now

[Adam]

And speaking of the Herring, here's last night's work, a pair of steps - note the pins intended to anchor the steps to headstock:

 

 

And this morning's, a pair of vac' pipes (this pattern were custom jobs - note that some had below the headstock vac' pipes which are much easier to do: this pair took about an hour).

 

 

Here's what they look like mounted on the wagon. There's not much left to do now.

Adam

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Think I'm going to chuck mine in the bin :cry:

 

Mike.

[garethashenden]

Think I'm going to chuck mine in the bin :cry:

 

Mike.

Don't do that. Just put it in an express train so you don't have time to see the detail as it passes.

[Adam]

Think I'm going to chuck mine in the bin :cry:

 

Mike.

 

Please don't, for goodness sake - even I would admit (and have, several times up the thread) that what I've done is overkill. Under a coat of paint most will be none the wiser that the detail isn't that Cambrian included in the packet: almost all of it is. I'm just fussy and have taken an age making finer replacements. For that which isn't, like the vac' pipes well, whitemetal vac' pipes would have been absolutely fine, for example - you could simply add the stays - but I didn't have any!

 

Adam

[Gordon A]

Hi Adam,

 

In your post 459 you mention that you have a copy of the GA.

 

Where did you obtain that from please, as I have been after a copy of the GA for ages without any luck?

 

Gordon A

Bristol.

[BigAndy]

Adam, again ( and I feel like I'm starting to repeat myself ) your modelling is amazing. Mostly, when the cruel close up shot is taken, it tends to highlight the bits that are wrong - not so with your stuff mate, it makes it look even better!

 

I reckon Mike is only stating what most of us are thinking!

 

Anyway, it's fantastic to see someone go to the lengths that you do in detailing the stuff that goes behind a loco.

 

cheers

 

Andy

[Adam]

Hi Adam,

 

In your post 459 you mention that you have a copy of the GA.

 

Where did you obtain that from please, as I have been after a copy of the GA for ages without any luck?

 

Gordon A

Bristol.

 

Gordon - The GA (really a very General Arrangement, it's more of neatly drawn dimensioned sketch) is in Russell's OPC Wagon Plans book of goodness-alone-knows-how-long-ago - dad very kindly copied the relevant pages from his copy. Not sure what the page number was.

 

Andy (and anyone else thinking the same thing) - if you look, all I've done is to finesse what Barry at Cambrian moulded and that's fiddly, but it isn't especially difficult. Cutting vee hangers from sheet is a bit of a swine but it mostly takes patience and practise: many would just draw up an etch these days (and let's face it, if anyone wants to do just that, I would be delighted!). The hard work is done for you and really very well. This is a good kit for a wagon that is tricky to model.

 

I think that my main difference to most modellers is just one of emphasis: I reckon that wagons were the whole point of the railway system (for the most part) and are far more intrinsically interesting than what pulls them about.

 

Adam

[57xx]

I think that my main difference to most modellers is just one of emphasis: I reckon that wagons were the whole point of the railway system (for the most part) and are far more intrinsically interesting than what pulls them about.

 

I totally agree with this sentiment. When I was a little boy "playing trains" on my Dad's TT layout, wagons were just things I made up into goods trains and I didn't really have too much concept of what went in them. Any Open to me was a coal wagon! It wasn't until I got back into modelling and started making up kits, buying books to get some prototype pics that I realised just how much depth and variety there is to wagons and how important they were. I can pick up any of my GWR, LMS or LNER books and have a browse through and pick up new details I hadn't previously spotted.  

[Gordon A]

Thanks Adam.

 

If it was a grey soft backed book, then I believe they are weight diagrams, rather than GA's that show the actual construction.

 

Excellent build and detailing.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[Adam]

Gordon - the drawing shows more than I would expect of a weight diagram - where the brake rigging goes, for example - hence my description. As for original drawings, goodness knows - some were built by Met Camm so there may be something among their archival material held in a variety of places (I think that the principal repositories are Birmingham and possibly Staffordshire Archives, details to explore here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=metropolitan+cammell

 

Anyhow, back to the wagon. Lettering is, something that if you want to do it right is always a challenge. We have a mixture here, from left, Cambridge Custom Transfers used more or less as supplied, the 'empty to' branding is cobbled together from leftover lettering from a Covhop, also from CCT, the 'Stoneycombe' branding (multiple return brandings seem to have been very common on P22s - the 'Herring' branding seems rare on pictures before 1970 so I've left it off) was pieced together from bits of a KB Scale sheet intended for 7mm. It is sufficiently tiny that the subterfuge with the spelling is all but invisible - there were no 'B's on the sheet... The maintenance panel is from Railtec. The bits you can't see are overhead warning flashes from Modelmaster. Hard work all this.

 

 

Compared to dad's Hornby Trout, we can see that this is small..

 

 

Adam

Edited May 29, 2015 by Adam

[ullypug]

Gordon - the drawing shows more than I would expect of a weight diagram, - where the brake rigging goes, for example - hence my description. As for original drawings, goodness knows - some were built by Met Camm so there may be something among their archival material held in a variety of places (I think that the principal repsoitories are Birmingham and possibly Staffordshire Archives, details to explore here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=metropolitan+cammell).

 

Anyhow, back to the wagon. Lettering is, something that, if you want to do it right, is always a challenge. We have a mixture here, from left, Cambridge Custom Transfers used more or less as supplied, the 'empty to' branding is cobbled together from leftover lettering from a Covhop, also from CCT, the 'Stoneycombe' branding (multiple return brandings seem to have been very common on P22s - the 'Herring' branding seems rare on pictures before 1970 so I've left it off) was pieced together from bits of a KB Scale sheet intended for 7mm. It is sufficiently tiny that the subterfuge with the spelling is all but invisible - there were no 'B's on the sheet... The maintenance panel is from Railtec. The bits you can't see are overhead warning flashes from Modelmaster. Hard work all this.

 

Herring_19.gif

 

Compared to dad's Hornby Trout, we can see that this is small..

 

Herring_20.gif

 

Adam

Yes, but perfectly formed!

Bought a etch off Justin Newett at the RMWeb day today. I hold you at least partially responsible

:-)

[Gordon A]

Hi Adam,

 

It sounds as if you have a drawing I have not seen.

 

The only diagrams I have seen in Russells was the P7 with the vacuum cylinder slung under the solebar

 

Can I be cheeky and ask if there is any chance I could have a copy of the diagram please?

 

Your finished wagon looks the business.

 

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[Adam]

Yes, but perfectly formed!

Bought a etch off Justin Newett at the RMWeb day today. I hold you at least partially responsible

:-)

 

Thanks - what did you go for? Providing that you take care to ensure that the basic frame assembles square they're enormous fun. I have more in the queue. The Herring, meanwhile, has been treated to a coat of matt lacquer and is ready for detail painting and weathering.

 

Adam

Edited April 26, 2015 by Adam

[ullypug]

Thanks - what did you go for? Providing that you take care to ensure that the basic frame assembles square they're enormous fun. I have more in the queue. The Herring, meanwhile, has been treated to a coat of matt lacquer and is ready for detail painting and weathering.

 

Adam

I dunno. It was brassy and shiny.

Something unusual for a conflat. LMS brake I think. Justin's referred me to one of the wagon books.

I wants it for a small container with lots of chain detail as there's a rather nice picture of one in Wells Tucker Street yard!

I'm waiting for the 21T hopper. Should be ready by S4um apparently.

[cctransuk]

Gordon - the drawing shows more than I would expect of a weight diagram - where the brake rigging goes, for example - hence my description. As for original drawings, goodness knows - some were built by Met Camm so there may be something among their archival material held in a variety of places (I think that the principal repositories are Birmingham and possibly Staffordshire Archives, details to explore here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=metropolitan+cammell

 

Anyhow, back to the wagon. Lettering is, something that, if you want to do it right, is always a challenge. We have a mixture here, from left, Cambridge Custom Transfers used more or less as supplied, the 'empty to' branding is cobbled together from leftover lettering from a Covhop, also from CCT, the 'Stoneycombe' branding (multiple return brandings seem to have been very common on P22s - the 'Herring' branding seems rare on pictures before 1970 so I've left it off) was pieced together from bits of a KB Scale sheet intended for 7mm. It is sufficiently tiny that the subterfuge with the spelling is all but invisible - there were no 'B's on the sheet... The maintenance panel is from Railtec. The bits you can't see are overhead warning flashes from Modelmaster. Hard work all this.

 

Herring_19.gif

 

Compared to dad's Hornby Trout, we can see that this is small..

 

Herring_20.gif

 

Adam

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Adam]

Those script versions are very nice indeed John, albeit not what I wanted in this instance. Of course, they have wider applications!

 

I'm waiting for the 21T hopper. Should be ready by S4um apparently.

 

That's interesting - the high lever-type? Dave Bradwell already does this of course - I've built two and very nice they are.

 

Adam

[chrisf]

Adam, if it is any help I have evidence that there was still some script lettering about in 1962.  Would you believe that it was on a Herring?

 

Chris

[Adam]

Chris, I'm certain that it was still about later than that - Paul Bartlett's galleries have several examples:

 

At Newport, 1970 - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrherring/h176b8c2a#h176b8c2a (I don't see a branding for Coleford in the set John has posted btw).

 

At Cadder, Scotland, 1984 (possibly in Olive Green, I think) - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brherring/h1aec94d9#h6a312f6

 

And at Crewe, 1983 - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brherring/h1aec94d9#h1ae07499

 

There will be others, but many seem to have been painted out and replaced which is what I have gone for here. If I were to build another then I would probably go for the script since it was such a 'western' thing to my mind and such brandings certainly appeared on other wagons.

 

Adam

Edited May 29, 2015 by Adam

[cctransuk]

 

I don't see a branding for Coleford in the set John has posted btw.

 

Adam,

 

Quite right !!

 

As the allocations of the WR HERRINGs don't seem to have been recorded, I was unable to supply a whole sheet of authentic number / allocation pairs.

 

This is the reason that the known lettering for WR HERRINGs is on one sheet, with a separate sheet of known WR ballast wagon allocations and cubic capacity lettering.

 

The allocations were sourced from David Larkin's data sheets, and I cannot guarantee that WR HERRINGs were allocated to all of these locations.

 

Coleford did not appear in the Larkin sheets, and so was not included; I have now amended the sheet content to remedy this.

 

If anyone knows of other BR script ballast wagon allocations, I will amend the sheet again.

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited April 27, 2015 by cctransuk

[jjnewitt]

That's interesting - the high lever-type? Dave Bradwell already does this of course - I've built two and very nice they are.

 

No the other one with push rods, conventional levers and an option for vacuum braking. Dave's etches are excellent and not very far removed from the set up on mine so I don't see any need to dupicate them.

 

The Herring looks great. Well done with all those transfers! 

 

Justin

[Porcy Mane]

No the other one with push rods, conventional levers and an option for vacuum braking. Dave's etches are excellent and not very far removed from the set up on mine so I don't see any need to dupicate them.

Scuse the drift off topic.

 

Justin, are we talking Diag. 1/146? I'll have to go back and check my photographs but I think some of the lots may have had different spacing for the transverse sections.

You've just brought my 21 ton plasticard modifications to a standstill....

 

Porcy

 

(Hope things livened up in the Redoubt after we left? I think the bar maid (amongst others) were glad to see the back of my team!)

Edited April 27, 2015 by Porcy Mane

[Adam]

No the other one with push rods, conventional levers and an option for vacuum braking. Dave's etches are excellent and not very far removed from the set up on mine so I don't see any need to duplicate them.

 

The Herring looks great. Well done with all those transfers! 

 

Justin

 

Ah, good! Thanks, the transfers were a (worthwhile) fiddle but I am so very glad that they're done. The Railtec maintenance data sheets are especially nice I think. I have some bits and pieces commissioned from them in the pipeline and am looking forward to them when they eventually turn up.

 

Adam

[jjnewitt]

Scuse the drift off topic.

 

Justin, are we talking Diag. 1/146? I'll have to go back and check my photographs but I think some of the lots may have had different spacing for the transverse sections.

You've just brought my 21 ton plasticard modifications to a standstill....

 

Porcy

 

(Hope things livened up in the Redoubt after we left? I think the bar maid (amongst others) were glad to see the back of my team!)

Hi Porcy,

 

Yes diagram 1/146. The wagons that I measured up for the project were B418128 at Quainton and B421612 at Lydney both to that diagram. Interesting that you think some of the spacings for the transverse sections may have been different. It wouldn't suprise me at all if there were some slight deviations from the drawings but it would be interesting if the actual drawings themselves were altered or indeed differed between works. 

 

Things were quite relaxed in the Redoubt, I think we only had one more drink after you'd left. Hope you've recovered from you trip around late night Wakefield. :-)

 

Justin

[Adam]

Going back to an earlier project, the pair of Coil Rs have seen a little bit of attention, building up the supports for the tent-like hoods, which will be fully modelled like a building, with roof and sides. The structure will eventually be covered in tissue t represent the sheets but only after the remaining hinge and bracket details are added.

 

 

Adam

 

[Adam]

Next steps. Roof on, I won't add sides because the tissue will be tough enough and the one clear picture I have sows a certain amount of settlement/billow.

 

 

This provides a supporting structure for fairing in with epoxy putty, like this (my earlier Coil H):

 

 

This one will use more tissue since the shaping isn't the same, on the inner ends, at least. So the Milliput doesn't have to do quite so much work, I've added some triangles of 40 thou'. I shall get the centre hood done first. but it will be a fiddle. Anyone else contemplating this sort of build might like to consider only adding the outer cradles afterwards...

 

 

Adam