Earl Bathurst Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Afternoon Im about to respray my battle of britain into brunswick green and also reline it but was thinking about putting west country name on to the loco but was woundering what the detail difference was between the 2 different prototypes. Can anyone enlighten me on the differences. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Very little. >>Click here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted June 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2011 IIRC, in essence: - Battle of Britons built at Brighton, West Countries built at Eastleigh. (Stands back and waits to be corrected) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Afternoon Im about to respray my battle of britain into brunswick green and also reline it but was thinking about putting west country name on to the loco but was woundering what the detail difference was between the 2 different prototypes. Can anyone enlighten me on the differences. Thanks again Re-built or original? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 IIRC, in essence: - Battle of Britons built at Brighton, West Countries built at Eastleigh. (Stands back and waits to be corrected) Well since you asked for corrections... the link in the post above (no2) says "21C110 Sidmouth, was built at Brighton Works" - which makes at least one WC built at Brighton. (and a slip of the typing fingers Briton for Britain. Now there's a slogan for the Olympics - I'm a Briton for Britain?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Apart from the fact that there were detail differences between locos (eg. narrow cabs on some BoBs, and then some were 'modified' aka 'rebuilt'), I always understood that BoBs were originally intended for use on the "Eastern Section" (Ex-LBSC and Ex-LC&D), while WCs were for use on the "Western Section" (ex-LSWR), due to the association on the names with the respective areas. So, get a photo of your intended loco first, before you rename a model! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 As PMP has said, there are a variety of tenders for the WC / BB class. Also on the rebuilt locos there are some differences in the lenghts of the sand filler pipes. If you could let us know which is your original loco, then we could be more helpful with possible changes of identity (assuming you want to be accurate to detail). Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 So to summarise, there are no differences between WC and BB as such, but lots of detail differences between class members (cabs, tenders, smoke deflectors etc etc) and over time - work from photos of your chosen subject(s). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2011 Different coloured paint on the nameplates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 HI If you are going to rename your West country i would get hold of a book called ; West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics by Richard Derry , Irwell press . A very good book covering each loco . All the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted June 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2011 Let me try and clarify / correct a few of points here; As advised above in a number posts there were indeed no actual differences between a West County and a Battle of Britain engine other than the many variations and modifcations across the class as a whole. All Light Pacific engines from the very first, 'West County' 21C101 Exeter, were built at Brighton, with the exception of 34095, 34097, 34099, 34101, 34102 and 34104 that were built at Eastleigh. Therefore the Build location had no bearing on the name. 21C101 to 21C148 were introduced with West County names supposedly for West County work / locations but of that batch some were already working out of Stewarts Lane and Ramsgate sheds. The first five Battle of Britain's actually went to Salisibury from new. 21C149 to 34089 received BoB names, 34090 wast named after the last Chairman of the Southern Railway 34091 to 34108 revert back to west county names whilst the final two were BoB (and allocated to Bournemouth from new. I hope this clarifies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi i have an unrebuilt battle of britain 92 squadron at the moment. I would like to rename it Winston Churchill (cant remember the number) Are there many detail differences? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted June 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2011 The issue with using Hornby's 34081 92 Squadron as the bases for a renumbering and naming to 21C151 Winston Churchill is that 92 Squadron is modelled in its as preserved condition so it has a speedo drive and the safety valves are in the revised position at rear end of the boiler rather then the front as original built. I used a Hornby 21C159 as the basis for my renaming to 21C151 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The issue with using Hornby's 34081 92 Squadron as the bases for a renumbering and naming to 21C151 Winston Churchill is that 92 Squadron is modelled in its as preserved condition so it has a speedo drive and the safety valves are in the revised position at rear end of the boiler rather then the front as original built. I used a Hornby 21C159 as the basis for my renaming to 21C151 More particularly, this conversion covers the only major build difference in the Light Pacifics - the narrow cab/4,500 gallon tender and wide cab/5,500 gallon tenders. As was noted earlier, nos 34001 to 34070 belonged to the first group whilst 34071 to 34110 were the latter. Therefore using a model of 34081 as the basis of a 34051/21C151 is a big NO-NO! Curiously there's a preservation-era oddity, since 34067 "Tangmere", built as a narrow-cab/4,500 gallon tender loco, received a wide cab when restored and sports a totally non-service life tender, as well as other oddities such as an airpump on the front platform. Anyway, Hornby have already done a 34051 (an NRM Special I think) and they come up on e-bay every so often, although in the later form with cut-down tender. Graham's conversion from 21C159 is by far the simplest. 34082 is only suitable for the 34071-110 engines JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The BoB name was a PR descision by the SR, one BoB originally running with a W/C name for a few months. That's a very interesting comment: I have never seen it reported before. Can you tell us which one it was? According to Derry, 48 "West Country" names were proposed in batches of 20, 10 and 18. The Battle of Britains were to have started with 34051 "Winston Churchill" but, again according to Derry, there were all sorts of changes to the BoB names, especilly as two additional ones were proposed, for Sir Frederick Pile and Sir Archibold Sinclair. These were allotted to the two proceding engines which hadn't had West Country names fitted (although they had provisionally beeb allocted "Saunton Sands" and "Lorna Doone"). However, they couldn't be allowed to upstage Churchill, so the engines received names of two ancilliary BoB participants, Anti-Aircraft Command and Royal Observer Corps, and the two Knights moved back in the order to 21C158/59. Many Light Pacifics ran without any nameplates/class ribbons for a while, and from the end of 1946 until 4 March 1948 there was no difference between 21C48 (later "Crediton" and thus a West Country) and 21C49 (later "Anti-Aircraft Command" and thus a Battle of Britain). However, neither bore any class designation until named (no un-named LPs wore any class designation). JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks for the advice. What names could i use instead of 92 squadron. Also what would need to be removed so it would be a condition it would have been in the 60s. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks for the advice. What names could i use instead of 92 squadron. Also what would need to be removed so it would be a condition it would have been in the 60s. Thanks This model is suitable for any of the following in the 1960s, these all retaining the 5,500 gallon tender with the high sides until the dates shown: 34078 Never cut-down. Wore late BR crest, withdrawn 9/64. Hornby have modelled this one, with the late crest. 34091 Cut-down 26/8/61. Hornby have modelled this one with cut-down tender 34099 C/d 28/10/61 34102 C/d 1/7/61 34107 C/d 24/6/61. Hornby have modelled this one recently, with cut-down tender. That's it! All the others (35 of them) lost their 5,500 gallon tenders to the first 35 rebuilds in 1957-59. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted June 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2011 More particularly, this conversion covers the only major build difference in the Light Pacifics - the narrow cab/4,500 gallon tender and wide cab/5,500 gallon tenders. As was noted earlier, nos 34001 to 34070 belonged to the first group whilst 34071 to 34110 were the latter. Therefore using a model of 34081 as the basis of a 34051/21C151 is a big NO-NO! JE Opps my apologies I should have pointed out the cab and tender differences too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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