Billywindsock Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Having seen and been thrilled by the new A1, I have been equally impressed by the determination and ingenuity of the fund raising team. I have been thinking about this for a while, but have waited for the new forum to ask the question - Where should I send my ??5 a week? Where is the next great engineering adventure that I can be part of? I know that there are groups and societies all over the country that are saving or preserving our heritage. I would like to join a new crusade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted October 11, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2009 What about the 'Hengist' mob trying to create a new 'Clan'. Not going to be a quick job mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 12, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2009 Having seen and been thrilled by the new A1, I have been equally impressed by the determination and ingenuity of the fund raising team. I have been thinking about this for a while, but have waited for the new forum to ask the question - Where should I send my ??5 a week? Where is the next great engineering adventure that I can be part of? I know that there are groups and societies all over the country that are saving or preserving our heritage. I would like to join a new crusade. I believe that the Bluebell has a group trying to build a replica Brighton Atlantic, which would seem a fair way to spend your money. I have to say, though, that while delighted that Tornado has been such a success, both operationally and, apparently, commercially, I just wonder how much good work could have been done with that amount of money in the preservation movement. Of course I know it would not have happened, as the same glitter that attracts you to such endeavours is what coaxed the money out of so many pockets. Heritage stuff, and the environment in which it operates, is not everyone's cup of tea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Just how many projects are there underway to build a new steam loco? Perhaps your ??5 a month would be better invested in promoting the idea of 'pool the funds, and build them serially' with surplus earnings from operation of the earlier completions ploughed back into continuing construction. It comes down to this question 'do you want your especial favourite in maybe 15 years time, or do you want to see extinct types emerging regularly, even if not your first preference?'. Surely general public interest will be better maintained by the emergence of a new loco every couple of years; that's what pooling the funds might achieve. Obstacles to this approach there are many; but if the prospect is a Pate/Clan/Brighton Atlantic/P2 etc all appearing in 2020 - 2030; or just one of these but on the rails in 2012, then another in 2014, etc. which would you choose? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 What about the F5 project? The 5025 project is a sound project to get the oldest surviving black 5 back on the rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Just how many projects are there underway to build a new steam loco? Perhaps your ??5 a month would be better invested in promoting the idea of 'pool the funds, and build them serially' with surplus earnings from operation of the earlier completions ploughed back into continuing construction. It comes down to this question 'do you want your especial favourite in maybe 15 years time, or do you want to see extinct types emerging regularly, even if not your first preference?'. Surely general public interest will be better maintained by the emergence of a new loco every couple of years; that's what pooling the funds might achieve. Obstacles to this approach there are many; but if the prospect is a Pate/Clan/Brighton Atlantic/P2 etc all appearing in 2020 - 2030; or just one of these but on the rails in 2012, then another in 2014, etc. which would you choose? That sounds like an excellent idea to me - i would definately put my ??5 per month in to that fund. The only question is; who's going to run it? Could we have the P2 next, please? Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 If somebody builds a Hawksworth Pacific, I'll chip in a fiver. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar Side Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 What about the B17 Sandringham project? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 That sounds like an excellent idea to me - i would definitely put my ??5 per month in to that fund. The only question is; who's going to run it? ... There is the rub. It would need someone with long standing credibility throughout the preserved steam community, a reputation for fairmindness, and a gift for persuasive communication and inspired leadership; who was deeply interested in pursuing this approach. If anyone knows such a person, suggest the idea, tell them it was something they said that provoked the thought... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted October 12, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2009 There is the rub. It would need someone with long standing credibility throughout the preserved steam community, a reputation for fairmindness, and a gift for persuasive communication and inspired leadership; who was deeply interested in pursuing this approach. If anyone knows such a person, suggest the idea, tell them it was something they said that provoked the thought... Hi all, I can only think of one person who currently meets those criteria...... Pete Waterman Who do you suggest speaks to him! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 If somebody builds a Hawksworth Pacific, I'll chip in a fiver. Cheers David I'll see your fiver David! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 ...I can only think of one person who currently meets those criteria...... Pete Waterman... He cannot be the only such person, but would certainly be a 'possible'. To my mind, it needs to come from a friend, or at least a regular acquaintance, simply to get a hearing that the merits (such as they are) get thought through. This needs to be canvassed where the core of the 'steam rail interest' can be found, which is something I know little about; that will have to be left to those who know that activity best. It may be totally impractical because the majority simply aren't interested in generally getting new steam locos completed, only in getting their specific project on the road... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted October 13, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2009 I wish all the new builds well. They are all interesting in different ways, the pacifics appeal to those who like the main line and Tornado has more than prooved itself. Where as some of the smaller projects such as the F5 and G5 are ideal for the small preserved lines they are being built for. The G5 is coming along very nicley. I am slightly biased, however i think for preserved lines 82045 will be ideal having sufficent power, whilst having a low axel load and it already gets my ??5. What is happening with the B17 though, it will be a great project, but it seams very quiet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think Tornado is still about ??600,000 short although the mainline run money is in some way paying that off, they took out a loan to finish it quicker remember.. As for doing these schemes through a central trust sequentially it would never work due to 'personalities', wishes to build just the one type of engine plus the fact that whoever supported whatever was chosen to be done last may have a strong chance of dying of old age before its finished if Tornado is anything to go by. As for the interest for the 'general public' there really isn't any apart from that generated by some very cunning marketing from the A1 trust. Its worth noting many of the people involved with that weren't those normally involved in preservation. From the comments of some who came to visit they thought it was the new replacement for the HST and the first steam on the mainline for some time! I can't imagine interest free loans, grants and sponsorship are particularly forthcoming in the current economic climate either . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60B Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just reembered Bretton Grange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wollastonblue Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 There is also the Patriot "Unnamed Warrior" that is being built as National Memorial Locomotive. http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/project.html I know the frames have been delivered, it was in the local paper about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 My fiver is going to the Brighton Atlantic project. I would support the building of smaller missing link locos more suitable for most preserved lines. So applaud the F5 and G5 projects. There must be dozens of locos of fairly simple design from the Victorian and Edwardian era not a little like the Mid Hants Austerity with tender. Not sure if I can do the economics though: does a small engine work out more economic to build than something like Tornado? A big noisy project probably attracts more attention and therefore raises more cash than a modest tank engine. Mainline steam running is the elephant in the room. Would be terrible to spend many hundreds of thousands on another Tornado and then find them banned from what they were built for and do best in some years time. R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 An Atlantic is very lovely but it does fall into something of a gap, in terms of suitability for operation. Doesn't have the power for current mainline work with any sort of payload at the speeds required to fit current slots, and not at home on the shorthaul work of a typical preservation railway either. Steam locos are nice simple machines if the Stephenson formula is observed, and build cost can be estimated per ton. (As an example Gresley offered the operations managment of the LNER the alternatives of 32 B17s or 28 V2s from a year's build programme. Within about 50 tons it's the same weight of metal for those two quantities of locos.) Economically, for any given class of work you want whatever delivers the most tractive power potential at lowest maintenance cost for the first build money. That means the only thing to build for the mainline is more A1s. BR did the costing, and found them the best high power output steam express loco they had in horsepower per pound terms. For a branchline typical of preservation operations, the later LMS/BR 2-6-4T are probably the thing to build. With the thick end of a thousand built in four design iterations, and a first class rep in service it has likely been thoroughly debugged. These conclusions probably give a hint why economics is known as 'the dismal science'. Of course preservation ops are about more than reliable power delivery. I would pay for a ride behind a Brighton Atlantic on a nice steep line like the Bluebell, preferably viewing the footplate activity from their splendid observation carriage, as the driver tries to coax her up the bank out of Sheffield Park. ... As for doing these schemes through a central trust sequentially it would never work due to 'personalities', wishes to build just the one type of engine ... That is the no 1 obstacle, and it would need a lot of education to overcome it. ... whoever supported whatever was chosen to be done last may have a strong chance of dying of old age before its finished if Tornado is anything to go by. ... As compared to the present position where every project takes 'forever', and 'everyone' dies of old age before anything is completed. What is not sometimes appreciated is that doing a project very slowly costs a lot more than doing it quickly. Ten or more projects each eating resources for essentials like like build site rental, equipment, maintenance of what has been done so far, over ten or more years, or the same costs on one site over the year or two of each single build. Far more of the money raised goes into the end product. Of course that does mean far fewer people getting paid to work on these projects, or for rental of build space and facilities: that is where the savings come from. But individual priorities probably make this rational dream just that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 My money's going to 'Unknown Warrior'. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
f#m Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 There's always the option of starting your own... I've been toying with the idea of building a small 0-4-0 saddle tank for years, just don't have a big enough garden shed yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billywindsock Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Hmmmm . . . . Start my own. Thanks for your information people, if I started my own it would probably be Duchess of Hamilton without a bath tub on top. Top of the list so far is Unknown Warrior, I like Patriots and I like the fact that there is respect shown to the generations that came before us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45669 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 There is also the Patriot "Unnamed Warrior" that is being built as National Memorial Locomotive. http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/project.html I know the frames have been delivered, it was in the local paper about it. Here's a picture of them : http://ronfisher.fotopic.net/p61591551.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLPG Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thought I would post a reply in terms of the G5. Those of you in the North East Region may have had the opportunity to see the G5 boiler at the WRLPG open day at RRNE in Shildon. There is a photo at www.wrlpg.com. There is also regular updates on the website in relation to progress. The wheels are not far off now! It is hoped to be close to completion or running in by late 2010. I would like to see a V3 tank or A8 built next! As with a lot of other comments, ideal for heritage railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I'd go for the Brighton Belle project. Obviously the lines it could travel would be limited without aid of a separate locomotive, but I imagine it could do a reasonably profitable job primarily travelling it's original route and Southern lines on high days and holidays on I know it's not steam, and I know there are other EMUs preserved/restored out there - but I think the Brighton Belle is one name which like the 'Orient Express', conjures up memories and evocations which are still strong in the wider public mind. Similarly, it's possibly more marketable than 'another steam locomotive' when it comes to unique selling points for the general public Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold LH&JC Posted October 31, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2009 I would like to see a V3 tank or A8 built next! Second! A main line worthy A8 based on the NYMR, now that would get me to dig my hands into my pockets! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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