RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted June 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2011 What methods/things do we do in our hobby because it was written in some magazine years ago that it was the 'proper' way to do it? If it has been written in a venerable publication then it must be right/true! I'll start it off with the 'lightening' of wooden baseboard framework by drilling lots of holes. I recall an article in a 60s Railway Modeller describing the construction of said frames in plywood and the important need to drill as many large holes in it to save weight. 'Cos it was in the Toddler it must be necessary so recently I went and drilled lots of holes 'to save weight'! Guess what, I put all the drilled out 'holes' which filled a supermarket plastic bag and weighed it . It hardly registered. All that time and work! If you were to be using 3" X 1" solid timber perhaps it would save weight. I've spoken to a couple of woodworking teachers and they say that it's a waste of time. No long ago I saw this beautifully made layout which had all its framing of 6mm ply drilled out with large holes like a Swiss cheese. Would be good if they wanted to fly it! Discuss....! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Personal favourite: Spraying everything liberally in matt varnish equals realism, regardless of prototype finish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Usually everything or so it seems. Even if you think of a unique technique, its usually been thought of by someone somewhere sometime before you! To me now, it HAS to be square or rectangular base boards, we rarely if ever see anything else, even on home layouts. Guilty here to, but I have a cunning plan.................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Usually everything or so it seems. Even if you think of a unique technique, its usually been thought of by someone somewhere sometime before you! To me now, it HAS to be square or rectangular base boards, we rarely if ever see anything else, even on home layouts. Guilty here to, but I have a cunning plan.................. My current HO layout Le Goudron-Calandre does use a tapered folding baseboard 7.5inches at the throat end and 15 inches at the terminus end but that idea came from an article in MTI and all my other layouts have been rectangular for no good reason. For a terminus, the taper (which when folded for storage is a rectangle just narrow enough to fit in a particular cupboard) does make better use of space for the same surface area as you need far less width at the throat than at the buffer end so why did I go back to a rectangle for the following HOm layout? - pure force of habit I suppose though getting the angles right for the taper was a bit more tricky than with them all at 90degrees. Also why do we continue to build our baseboards with 25x12mm (2x1) softwood frames with heavy top surfaces? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Track laid on 1/16th cork, granite sprinkled on, damp with water then soak with PVA (with a drop of fairy!). Why, oh why, oh why? After constructing baseboards (see above!) like a sound amplifier, we are constantly told this method - which then transmits sound even more effectively! There are better ways! Sigh! John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 To me now, it HAS to be square or rectangular base boards, we rarely if ever see anything else, even on home layouts. Guilty here to, but I have a cunning plan.................. You haven't seen the exception, then, Schiller Point??, my O Scale layout that was at the Trent Valley Show last weekend.... :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Track laid on 1/16th cork, granite sprinkled on, damp with water then soak with PVA (with a drop of fairy!). Why, oh why, oh why? After constructing baseboards (see above!) like a sound amplifier, we are constantly told this method - which then transmits sound even more effectively! There are better ways! Sigh! John E. HI Nice to see somone eles say about this old chestnut ,stopped using cork underlay ,total waste of time in my book. Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The pre-occupation with the whole issue of sound being transmitted by the very effective sound box of the baseboard has always made me chuckle when I read the mags, the lengths people go to to dampen it etc etc. In a busy exhibition environment you are unlikely to hear any effects anyway and the drapes at the front provide an effective accoustic barrier - and if its in your own home does it really matter anway? Tal k about over egging the pudding .... Mind in comparison with some sound effect class 20 at full volume Ive heard, I think Id rather hear the sound of motors, gearboxes and wheels turning amplified Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2011 Anything that includes "The only way to do "X" is to.......... Even seen it on RMWeb a time or two! Incidentally, I have a layout on rectangular boards, built from 2" x 1" topped with 3/4" chipboard. In fact I have had several layouts on them. They were built by my dad in around 1966 and are as flat and straight as the day they were made. They have given me much modelling pleasure over many years. If anybody wishes to do things differently, good luck to them and I will enjoy the results but just because I have boards of that shape and construction, it doesn't mean that they are somehow wrong, they are just not to your personal taste! Rectangular boards also happen to make best use of a sheet of material, with less waste! I have seen layouts with funny shaped boards that looked awful because they had curves and odd shapes that were clearly not thought through properly and the shape of the layout jumped out at me and distracted from the modelling. I also have layouts on non regular shaped, lightweight, boards. These look better from an artistic point of view and are easier to carry but for stacking and transporting they are not nearly as easy. I still lay track on 3mm (or 4mm) cork too. Not for sound insulation but because it gives me 3mm of easily worked top surface. This allows easy cutting of channels for point operating wire (or uncoupling magnets) and if a baseboard joint is not 100% it is so much easier to sand to get a good level. Having tried ballasting many different ways, I still come back to the method described above. I find it the quickest and neatest way I can ballast track. So sorry folks! You can do it your way and I can do it mine. I won't tell you that you are wrong as long as you don't say that I am. In the words of "Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys" "He ain't wrong he's just different". I always say that if a technique works for you and you are happy using it, it is perfectly valid and cannot be wrong as long as you don't try to tell everybody that it is the only way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Surely it has some use, I once saw a large home layout that had the track gapped at 60' lengths and the noise added to the effect. The trick was to get rid of unnecessary noise from poorly engineered mechanisms and add a little weight to stock. Alternatives to cork are widely known, but you sometimes struggle to see layouts with correct ballast shoulders, so builders don't need to use it anyway.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Keep your minds open to the germination of new ideas, feed off of others as they grow, and reap the benefits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Keep your minds open to the germination of new ideas, feed off of others as they grow, and reap the benefits. Kenton, that is just so true...... All the best, Dave Franks, www.lanarkshiremodels.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Vale Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I agree about not liking prescriptive things, although sometimes it's helpful to be told just one way of doing something new so you don't get paralysed by indecision! I think the one that stands out for me in magazine how-to articles is pages and pages on track laying with nary a mention of glue, double-sided tape etc. It seems to be track pins or nothing. I remember them making me miserable as a kid with no pin vice, these days I jut use glue. Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The continued suggestion that one uses track pins seems to me good advice. Afterall, it is the novice that will take this advice, not seasoned modellers. How many novices get their track plans right first time? It can be unpinned and relaid. Glued track can't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted June 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2011 I've spoken to a couple of woodworking teachers and they say that it's a waste of time. They're right! The best one that I saw was in a old magazine where someone sent in an idea about using Kingspan for baseboards, and demonstrated scenery construction stating that it was good to use instead of a ply top. Never again, it splits and breaks into little bits worse than a Rich Tea! Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Another you still see too often is soldering droppers to the side of the rail, instead of underneath where they're harder to see. And then there's relying on fishplates for conductivity, what might work on a trainset soon changes when the track is painted and ballasted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Glued and screwed! Theres another! I get most of my stuff for boards from a local shopfitters. All nicely cut for me in MDF. When I asked which were the best screws to use they were most surprised that I was going to screw AND glue! Was basically told, once the glue was dry, the screws were superfluous so I now use the odd panel pin, just to stop everything shifting as the glue dries. Sorted. And before any one knows better, they are rock solid, havent moved, warped, twisted, expanded, shrunk, crumbled or caught fire. Yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 How many novices get their track plans right first time? It can be unpinned and relaid. Glued track can't. Not only novices. But double sided sticky tape can be peeled off and doesn't look so unsightly as the pin heads. Besides the novice rarely pre-drills or pushes the pins in (especially those using MDF or ply as the board) instead they just take a hammer and distort the track - especially points that then cease to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I was surprised to learn that Pete Waterman's layout has been laid with track held in place with track pins although with pre-drilled sleepers. I'd always thought that glue or tape was the better way but I guess it does prove the point of the original post that whatever works for you is fine in the grand scheme of things. That written when I've watched Leamington Spa on You tube there are some rough spots on the track that could do with being resolved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Personal favourite: Spraying everything liberally in matt varnish equals realism, regardless of prototype finish. The painting arena is full of them, my favourite probably being that to produce a weathered wagon one must first apply an ex-works finish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 The painting arena is full of them, my favourite probably being that to produce a weathered wagon one must first apply an ex-works finish So you build a vehicle, then weather it straight away? So at what stage do you apply the insignia or lining? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 So you build a vehicle, then weather it straight away? Not quite. The point I'm making is that an imperfect livery coat can actually help in producing a finish that exhibits subtle tonal variations, especially if it's to be patch painted as well; obviously it's not so suitable for a lightly weathered vehicle So at what stage do you apply the insignia or lining? Wagons arent usually lined but nowadays I tend to apply transfers quite late on (once the messiest of the weathering has been applied, to avoid them getting over-gunked) and then just lightly wash them to tone them in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Some freight vehicles initially carried 'passenger' livery, which is why I mentioned lining. I understand what you are saying, but the points made in old magazines about following certain courses of action were often born out of experience or common sense. The advice about weathering an ex works finish is a case in point. Ex-works isnt to be taken literally as in shiny brand new although it could also mean just that. If asked to finish a loco in LNER apple green livery with a somewhat unkempt appearance, I would still have to paint and line it out properly. It would exhibit a glossy finish before the streaks, 'gunge' and toning in were applied afterwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 That's fair comment Larry, I was probably being a bit flippant. I think I'm right in saying that most freight stock was never as well finished as locos and coaching stock, and its unkempt appearance under later BR regimes is a world apart from the sort of modelling that you've made a career of. I suppose a good example of what I was getting at would be a typical 'in service' 5-plank High Goods - some of them didnt seem to have two planks together the same colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted June 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2011 To me now, it HAS to be square or rectangular base boards, we rarely if ever see anything else, even on home layouts. Not guilty on that one Out of fifteen boards that make up Ravensclyyfe only five of them have four right-angle corners, two of the rest have six sides, the remaining eight all have five sides apiece.... Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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