RMweb Gold pheaton Posted November 24, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2009 Gents, i wondered if someone could help me as ive been racking my brains over this for a few weeks now... bare with me....i do have an issue of explaining things in a way easy to understand.. I own amongst my growing fleet for sound equipped locomotives 2 Hornby 31s with factory fitted sound... now those of you that have heard this locomotive (pre howes reblow of course ) will know for some unknown reason the fan kicks in when the locomotive moves off. My ultimate goal is to prevent this happening.... But....is it not mixed in with the engine i hear you say....well i dont believe it is as i can "fool" the decoder into playing the sounds separately. So this leads me to the conclusion that the sounds are indeed seperate and moving the locomotive without that overpowering sound of the fan may well be possible...one of the things which leads me to this conclusion is that My Hornby elite does not support function 14 yet i can fool the decoder into playing function 14 which is the same sound as the fan that plays over the engine on moving off, similarly for brief periods i can fool the decoder into playing something i call "fanless thrash" ie the engine sound with no fan! Now....based on the above hypothesis does anyone know the cv's that might control that behavoir???and can anyone confirm which sound slot the fan sound (function 14) might reside in...reason being im a little confused at the loksound manual.... A scan of the Loksound manual reveals the following CVs which may be of interest... CV 137 "Assignment of function running forward C" default value 0 (where 1-16 is the sound slot) CV 140 "Assignment of function running back-up C" default value 0 (where 1-16 is the sound slot) CV 148 "Assignment of function button F1 forward B default value 4 (where 1-16 is the sound slot) (incidently 4 is listed as the sound slot by default for the blower hence my question what sound slot is function 14 on the Hornby 31 mapped to?) CV 149 "Assignment of function forward C" default value 0 (where 1-16 is the sound slot) CV 151 "Assignment of function running Reverse B" default value 4 (where 1-16 is the sound slot) (incidently 4 is listed as the sound slot by default for the blower hence my question what sound slot is function 14 on the Hornby 31 mapped to?) CV 152 "Assignment of function running Reverse B" default value 0 (where 1-16 is the sound slot) Any of the above CVs mean anything to you guys and do you think i am on the right path in my quest for fanless sound? of course you might say would it not be easier to re-blow?? well it will be 22 quid to reblow both of them and i want to see out of curiosity what the 31 sounds like without the fan, and also if the fan inclusion is a mistake by Hornby in the CV assignment or if its there to cover a balls up in the sound recording? Any help gratefully appreciated? Many Thanks Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yes you are in the right area of CV's for experimenting. I can't tell you exact answers, I don't have the loco in question. Whether you can fully separate the sounds is unknown; its possible that the sound project (not end-user editable) has the element available on a function AND locked into loco behaviour. Suggestion - get a copy of JMRI/Decoder Pro (its free!), the latest TEST release (there have been Elite changes in the recent test releases which are critical for Elite's), and hook it up to your Elite with a USB cable. Then use the LokSound decoder profile in there to read back all the CV's in the loco (programming track operation, which will take a very long time on an Elite, but its a once operation for the decoder). You can then see visually on a sensible graphic panel the various settings for sound slots, functions, actions, etc. There are a lot of tabs for a LokSound 3.5 in DecoderPro, but its quite well structured, just take your time and keep notes of what you are doing. Its fairly simple to change various CV's, write changes to loco, test it, try different value, etc.. Once you've read the loco in, you should be able to do further settings in Ops-Mode on the mainline, so can drive the loco on the Elite whilst making programming changes on the computer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted November 24, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2009 Nigelcliffe, Thanks for the advice... well i took the plunge and succeeded!!! on inspection my Hornby 31 has CV 151 and CV 148 set to 20, comparing this to my Bachmann and Hornby locomotives they are set to 4 (the default) changing this to 4 on the 31 removes the fan playing when the locomotive moves off ! so to summarise set 151 and 148 to a value of 4 and this appears to remove the fan playing on move off and the locomotive does not appear to be affected, obviously however try it at your own risk.... Sounds a lot better with the fan off can here a slight loop with the turbo at half power but its not too bad, im wondering if Hornby resorted to playing the fan to cover this up? So fanless thrash on a Hornby 31 is possible! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 So fanless thrash on a Hornby 31 is possible! However whether it will sound like a 31 or not is another thing entirely No negative comments on your work but the Hornby soundchip sounds little like a 31 'as is'. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted November 25, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2009 However whether it will sound like a 31 or not is another thing entirely No negative comments on your work but the Hornby soundchip sounds little like a 31 'as is'. Dave Dave, no worries I was involved on the original debate on rmweb....does the 31 sound like a 37...yes i agree when i hear it if i was blind-folded i would more likely say it sounds like a 37, however what i did say on that forum was....the 31 and 37 have exactly the same engine, barring the fact that the 31 lacks intercoolers, so the exhaust note would be broadly similar....where the difference comes in is the load control on the engine using brush equipment the 31 is generally much slower to load up then the 37 and it loads up more evenly. obviously also the governors would be setup differently. that all said however i do find it hard to believe that Hornby would have recorded the wrong locomotive. So i think they have laid the sounds out poorly more then anything... Why they chose to put the fan in baffles me...it masks most of the engine note (whatever your opinion on it) and i wanted to see if it masks a cock up in the recordings, and at half power there is a noticeable loop in the turbo sound, which you dont hear with the fan in...so one wonders if this is the reason... The whole idea of the work was just to see what it sounds like out of curiosity if anything, im yet to hear the howse version in the flesh. one thing i do like about the Hornby models is they are loud. But if the howse model is better then my two will go for reblowing, i just wanted to see if i could get rid of the fan to put things on a more even footing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mr.S.corn78 Posted November 25, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2009 Why they chose to put the fan in baffles me...it masks most of the engine note (whatever your opinion on it) and i wanted to see if it masks a cock up in the recordings, and at half power there is a noticeable loop in the turbo sound, which you dont hear with the fan in...so one wonders if this is the reason... The whole idea of the work was just to see what it sounds like out of curiosity if anything, im yet to hear the howse version in the flesh. one thing i do like about the Hornby models is they are loud. But if the howse model is better then my two will go for reblowing, i just wanted to see if i could get rid of the fan to put things on a more even footing. HI just been reading through this thread and i thought i would add my thoughts to the mix. One thing i have noticed with the RTR factory fitted sound is all the locos i have heard have had the sound files played with and mistakes have been made, for example the fan on the 31 as discussed and also the latest edition of the Bachmann 20 has too much turbo noise which means the engine noise is lost. I think the manufactors try to put thier own mark on the sound but due to a lack of knowlage they mess it up a little. I have made a note of the cvs that you changed. Thanks for sharing cheers Simon (these views are mine and mine alone ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 the 31 and 37 have exactly the same engine, barring the fact that the 31 lacks intercoolers, so the exhaust note would be broadly similar....where the difference comes in is the load control on the engine using brush equipment the 31 is generally much slower to load up then the 37 and it loads up more evenly. Interesting post - i'd still say that the recordings have come from a 37 simply as to how they sound loading up - as said in your post, a 31 DOES sound similar to a 37 but for a trained ear it's quite easy to tell the two apart. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Changing those Cv settings worked a treat for me; no more fan thrash when it moves. Function 14 still works to turn the fan sound on and off. I suspect that Hornby may have reasoned that as their model has the fan turning when the loco moves, they should include the sound permanently on as well. That is, of course, pure conjecture on my part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 26, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2009 im yet to hear the howse version in the flesh. one thing i do like about the Hornby models is they are loud. But if the howse model is better then my two will go for reblowing not quite "in the flesh" as such but this is the howes 31, it has a bass ported speaker in it http://www.youtube.com/user/fastlinegrid#p/u/3/MgxX-U9464I to be honest i've never heard a Hornby 31 in the flesh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 5, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2009 I've two Howes 31's - the Mk1 and Mk2 versions. The Mk2 is a little more thrashy, but both are very good. I've removed the toylike fan drive system and fitted a bass reflex speaker in it's place. Normally, it can be difficult to get two different sound projects to work together, but I've managed to get the pair to run together an a top 'n' tail test train. It took a bit of playing with the midpoint and max speed values, but the result is very acceptable. I've even muted the horns in one direction on each loco, using the sound slot assignments for forward/reverse using a Lokprogrammer, so that only the lead loco horns function with F2/3/4. This is the Mk1 version - apologies for video quality Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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