Oxford diecast... whats next?

[Crepello]

On 12/04/2023 at 21:38, BernardTPM said:

The N Gauge ones are mainly plastic, so not that heavy.

But 64 of them on a couple of Cartic sets certainly are, as I found to my cost with Anglias on the NGS Cartics.😂

[BernardTPM]

I wonder if it might be worth loosing the metal base then. It doesn't have much visible detail on it, certainly when loaded on a Cartic.

[osbornsmodels]

A little bird tells me the next lot of TT 1:120 Scale vehicles will be available from your usual model shop (if they choose to stock them).

[Peter Eaton]

wouldn't it be nice, if they (Oxford Rail) did a ''television detector van'' a thing of the past it seems now.

Remember always watching the 405 lines telly with the lights out & curtains drawn.

Ideal for the 60s -80s layout!

Peter

[64F]

1 hour ago, Peter Eaton said:

wouldn't it be nice, if they (Oxford Rail) did a ''television detector van'' a thing of the past it seems now.

Remember always watching the 405 lines telly with the lights out & curtains drawn.

Ideal for the 60s -80s layout!

Peter

The Commer postbus lends itself to the role, as it already has a raised roof to simulate the simulated "equipment" housing.

[Mike Harvey]

Oxford Diecast has posted on the Facebook Oxford Diecast Collectors Group that it is planning a live broadcast in September for its next round of new model announcements.

[64F]

Various first shots of forthcoming models have been shown on Oxford Diecast's facebook page over the last month or so - N-gauge Fiesta mk.I, Escort mk.II, Cortina mk.V and Capri mk.III, OO-gauge Metro, MG Midget mk.III and Dennis Eagle refuse truck.  All looking pretty good with the exception of the Cortina, which unfortunately seems to have been modelled with a spoiler and splitter which I don't think were even factory options in the UK.  Either it is based on an export 'S' model or a tacky aftermarket customisation. Instantly the appeal of the model is reduced by 95%.  I had hoped over time to fill a rake of Revolution Cartics with these, but that will need to be re-thought.  Why on earth do manufacturers do this sort of thing...?

[PhilJ W]

Because they are the models that sell. The railway modeller is only a small part of the model car market. Collectors are the biggest sector (in any scale*) and they prefer the high performance models. The most popular car maker for diecast cars is Ferrari, go figure. *With the possible exception of N scale.

[64F]

This has been discussed before, but I simply do not believe that when it comes to N-gauge models a performance car model will sell better than a common one.  That is obviously true at the larger scales where most of the products are sold to model car collectors, but am sceptical about it being the case for OO and certainly not for N gauge, as those scales are selling substantially (and in the case of N-gauge, overwhelmingly) to railway modellers as scenic items. 

 

Clearly people want a mix of vehicle types and that leads to a relative over-representation of exotica, which is fine, but to chose to spoil one of the much-needed everyday saloon car models in this way is crazy.  I can understand why  Oxford modelled the Sierra Cosworth in OO scale rather than a more useful vanilla Sierra Sapphire, but at least in the Cosworth was an actual UK prototype.  The N-gauge Cortina mk.V on the other hand appears to be a New Zealand export-spec vehicle, or a boy-racer custom, and the spoiler and splitter look totally wrong for the UK and ruin the appearance of the model.  It also seems to have a moulded-in sunroof which is also unrepresentative of 99% of cars and is pointless at N-gauge where a sunroof would be better represented with paint.  If the finished model comes out like the pre-production one it will be a major disappointment.  I don't believe that the number of people who think "I'll buy another of those Cortina models because it has a naff spoiler" is greater than the number who buy fewer of them because the model is so unrepresentative of the prototype.

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

I tend to agree. Also, if Oxford really want to do the hotted up Cortina, why can’t they make the spoiler etc as separate parts that they can add to the relevant release, then they can also sell the vanilla cars, probably in much greater numbers than the silly boy-racer version.

 

Taking myself as a sample size of one, I would not buy a Cortina with the ridiculous add-on bits, but I would buy at least one of each colour of any  standard-looking cars they chose to release.

[Mike Harvey]

If the N gauge market is mainly railway modellers then I would be surprised if a souped up version would put most of them off. Authenticity of road traffic is very much a secondary consideration on most layouts. The launch Cortina model is supposed to be Cardinal Red and the original artwork did not include the go-faster fitments. Having said that, for once it would be good if Oxford has tooled a standard version hiding inside the spoiler etc. The Cortina is the only one of the new Fords not available in 1/76 so there is no guide from a larger scaled version. 

[Covkid]

On 01/09/2023 at 12:03, Obi-Jiff Kenobi said:

I tend to agree. Also, if Oxford really want to do the hotted up Cortina, why can’t they make the spoiler etc as separate parts that they can add to the relevant release, then they can also sell the vanilla cars, probably in much greater numbers than the silly boy-racer version.

 

Taking myself as a sample size of one, I would not buy a Cortina with the ridiculous add-on bits, but I would buy at least one of each colour of any  standard-looking cars they chose to release.

]

Could spoilers and skirts become 3D printed "aftermarket" parts offered by the likes of West Hill Wagon Works etc

[64F]

For N-gauge cars I doubt if there if much scope for making any of the parts optional, at least not on the type of relatively simple and affordable ones that Oxford make, and the first shot of the Cortina mk.V shows them cast in:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1038435887401132&set=pcb.1038436897401031

 

Obviously many people will buy them anyway.  A lot of people won't realise they are wrong, and in the near-absence of any other 1980s cars in N-gauge there is nothing better available to those who do know.  However, I've no doubt that they will sell fewer of them because of the un-prototypical add-ons, because some people who do know will buy fewer while it is difficult to think of anyone who is likely to be buying more of them because of the spoiler.

 

Whilst some people don't mind about the accuracy of background vehicles, cars are really easy for a lot of people to recognise and to date, even in N-gauge.  When operating my club's N-gauge layouts at exhibitions I've often overheard people commenting on the background cars, typically pointing out to their children or grandchildren a type they or a relative used to own.  There are also plenty of people who can spot things "wrong" with a car model far more readily than an issue with a piece of rolling stock. I therefore find it galling that a manufacturer seems to have chosen to model what was once a very common car with various inaccurate add-ons that detract from its appearance and make it less recognisable, for absolutely no benefit whatsoever.   There are enough compromises in capturing the look of a car at such a small scale without deliberately adding prominent inaccuracies.

 

I had planned to fill a rake of Cartics with Fords and had pre-ordered ten of the red Cortinas to start with, but these I will now be cancelling as if the first shot is what gets produced they will probably be useless to me - the splitter, fog lamps and sunroof I could reluctantly live with or modify, but the prominent spoiler is likely to be very difficult to hide or to remove easily.  My N-gauge is circa 1977-79 so any mk.V Cortinas would be brand new and unmodified.  I'll probably buy one and have a got at it with a file and some red paint before deciding if it is worth the effort of doing more, but I'm not optimistic.

 

Looking on the bright side the Cartics I have pre-ordered are MAT whereas Ford tended to use Toleman, so maybe Oxford are saving me from an inaccuracy of my own!

[BernardTPM]

For 1977-79 you'd want the original Mk.IV type anyway as the Cortina '80 (a.k.a. Mk.V) only came out in the Autumn of 1979 (1980 model year, hence the designation). As far as I've been able to find out the spoiler wasn't standard even on the 1982 run-out Crusader models. I did find a 'Crusader S' that had one, but I'm not convinced that it was genuine, especially as I've not been able to find a second example, let alone one so adorned in a Ford brochure.

[64F]

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

For 1977-79 you'd want the original Mk.IV type anyway as the Cortina '80 (a.k.a. Mk.V) only came out in the Autumn of 1979 (1980 model year, hence the designation). As far as I've been able to find out the spoiler wasn't standard even on the 1982 run-out Crusader models. I did find a 'Crusader S' that had one, but I'm not convinced that it was genuine, especially as I've not been able to find a second example, let alone one so adorned in a Ford brochure.

I don't believe either the spoiler or splitter were standard on any UK cars, and they may not even have been available as factory options as there are almost no pictures of cars fitted with them (other than obvious aftermarket modifications).  The foglamps might have been a factory option, but even if they were only a small minority of cars would have had them.

 

However, I think I may have found the source of the problem.  When Corgi tooled for the 1:43 Cortina mk.V they allowed for a spoiler, splitter and foglamps as optional parts, presumably to allow them to make souped-up versions to appeal to model car collectors as well as the normal production vehicles.  Image here:

 

https://www.collectors-club-of-great-britain.co.uk/news/new-tooling-in-development-from-corgi/

 

I suspect that due to the relationship with Hornby, Oxford may have been allowed to use the Corgi scans/drawings, and unfortunately they have included all of these optional parts when scaling it down, possibly without realising these parts are not prototypical.  It's really unfortunate that the original artwork was correct and the errors only came to light with the first shot - exactly the opposite of the issue with the recent Maestro where the mismatched bumpers shown on the artwork were picked up and and corrected before the first shot.  Hopefully it is not too late for Oxford to correct the Cortina.

[Crepello]

On 02/09/2023 at 18:39, 64F said:

For N-gauge cars I doubt if there if much scope for making any of the parts optional, at least not on the type of relatively simple and affordable ones that Oxford make, and the first shot of the Cortina mk.V shows them cast in:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1038435887401132&set=pcb.1038436897401031

 

Obviously many people will buy them anyway.  A lot of people won't realise they are wrong, and in the near-absence of any other 1980s cars in N-gauge there is nothing better available to those who do know.  However, I've no doubt that they will sell fewer of them because of the un-prototypical add-ons, because some people who do know will buy fewer while it is difficult to think of anyone who is likely to be buying more of them because of the spoiler.

 

Whilst some people don't mind about the accuracy of background vehicles, cars are really easy for a lot of people to recognise and to date, even in N-gauge.  When operating my club's N-gauge layouts at exhibitions I've often overheard people commenting on the background cars, typically pointing out to their children or grandchildren a type they or a relative used to own.  There are also plenty of people who can spot things "wrong" with a car model far more readily than an issue with a piece of rolling stock. I therefore find it galling that a manufacturer seems to have chosen to model what was once a very common car with various inaccurate add-ons that detract from its appearance and make it less recognisable, for absolutely no benefit whatsoever.   There are enough compromises in capturing the look of a car at such a small scale without deliberately adding prominent inaccuracies.

 

I had planned to fill a rake of Cartics with Fords and had pre-ordered ten of the red Cortinas to start with, but these I will now be cancelling as if the first shot is what gets produced they will probably be useless to me - the splitter, fog lamps and sunroof I could reluctantly live with or modify, but the prominent spoiler is likely to be very difficult to hide or to remove easily.  My N-gauge is circa 1977-79 so any mk.V Cortinas would be brand new and unmodified.  I'll probably buy one and have a got at it with a file and some red paint before deciding if it is worth the effort of doing more, but I'm not optimistic.

 

Looking on the bright side the Cartics I have pre-ordered are MAT whereas Ford tended to use Toleman, so maybe Oxford are saving me from an inaccuracy of my own!

 I hope you’ve read my warning about loaded Cartics. Test your loco with them before glueing the cars on.  One set should be ok though.

[Dunsignalling]

It's not just bread-and-butter "modern" cars that get ignored.

 

For example, whilst the Sunbeam Rapier has always been a personal favourite (real and model), the far more numerous Hillman Minx and Singer Gazelle have not been offered, nor the characterful swb Hillman Husky which must be a contender for the title of first UK-built hatchback.

 

Citroen built such a variant of their Traction Avant Light Fifteen in limited numbers before WW2, though, so not an absolute first! The saloons were probably the commonest "foreign" cars to be seen in the UK during the fifties, as the RHD ones were assembled over here. No model of those, yet, either. 

 

The Mk1 Ford Cortina has only been produced in 2-door form catering for the Lotus mode, but no 4-door or estate (the latter being especially handsome IMHO). Nor the Corsair, which was a common sight for a while, though they seemed to rot away even quicker than most other Fords of the 1960s! Going a bit earlier, no pre-100E Prefect (very common) or V8 Pilot either.

 

Some of the more run-of-the-mill 1950s/60s cars (Austin A30/35 including vans and estates, A40 Devon/Dorset, Minor Pick-up , Ford 100E saloons, estates and vans, Mk1 Consul/Zephyr, Triumph Herald) were produced (rather well) in the Pocketbond Classix range, so Oxford ignoring them is perhaps understandable. I find their take on the Minor saloon, convertible, and Traveller more convincing than Oxford's, too.

 

A particularly "exotic" Oxford choice is the Vauxhall Cresta PA Friary estate car, of which I understand, fewer than a hundred were sold in the UK.

 

Among more sporting cars, I'm surprised that Oxford haven't covered Jaguar XKs prior to the E-type in 1:76, despite Oxford producing an excellent representation of the XK150 FHC in 1:43 scale. 

 

John

Edited September 3, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[BernardTPM]

The 4-door Mk.1 Cortina was in the Base Toys/Bachmann range, but only available secondhand now. Triang did a Corsair in their Minix range; not the most common secondhand, but not the rarest either, though it is one without an interior.

In 4mm Oxford have done the PA Cresta in both saloon and estate car formats, but in N only the estate. Really the FB Victor would have been a better candidate for estate car format; they were relatively common and were a factory model.

It is shame the Classix range is currently defunct.

 

But compared to the situation 30 years ago there's so much more ready made.

[PhilJ W]

The Base Toys Cortina suffered from casting errors, the rear half of the boot was up to a millimetre higher than it should be, also the interior was crude and the wheels too big. The Oxford Cortina was based on the Lotus Cortina and was incorrect especially around the rear window, the best thing to do if you could find a Base Toys one without the casting fault is to fit the wheels and interior from an Oxford one. Minix also produced a Hillman Minx and a Vauxhall Victor FC. 

[Mike_Walker]

I keep hoping for the original Austin A50 Cambridge, Dad had a black 1955 one that went for years (until Mum crashed it into the back of a coal lorry) and I'd like to have one representing it on my layout - on holiday.  Fords and Vauxhalls along with the contemporary Morris Oxford (before the BMC badge engineering era) from the period but not the Austin which was equally common.

[BernardTPM]

Wheels too big seems to be a common error on many 4mm scale diecasts. I'd say the Base Toys Mk.1 Cortina is no worse than the Oxford Mk.2, but both fall short. Long before that, soon after the Springside kit came out I made a 4-door Mk.1 by combining the estate car sides with the other saloon parts (Springside were kind enough to supply just the extra sides) which makes for a better shape than the 2-door saloon kit as the rear waistline falls slightly as it should, but there was a lot of reworking of both the bonnet and boot necessary.

 

I used low melt sodler as filler and it shrunk after the model was painted, hence it was never completed.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Mike_Walker said:

I keep hoping for the original Austin A50 Cambridge, Dad had a black 1955 one that went for years (until Mum crashed it into the back of a coal lorry) and I'd like to have one representing it on my layout - on holiday.  Fords and Vauxhalls along with the contemporary Morris Oxford (before the BMC badge engineering era) from the period but not the Austin which was equally common.

Matchbox produced an A50 in the original series (number 38) and to a scale of 1/75. Typically it is very basic without glazing or interior and the normal Matchbox metal wheels but the outline is pretty accurate.

[BernardTPM]

Scale of that A50 depends on what you measure. Matchbox claimed 1:71. For overall length it's 1:73, for wheelbase it's 1:75.3, for width it's 1:71 (Measured to nearest 1/2mm and using the dimensions here).

[PhilJ W]

According to a book I have listing the Matchbox products up to the early whizziwheel models its 1/75. But then Matchbox claims as to scale aren't exactly reliable and neither was their keeping to dimensions. The J2 pickup is a case in point. It is also described as 1/75 but the width is nearer to 1/76 but the cab is about 1.5mm to short as is the wheelbase. The length is correct for 1/76 but the rear axle is too far forward by about 1mm. In many respects it is superior to both the Oxford and Trackside offerings in as much as it has the taillights and filler cap cast in whereas the more recent models have a dab of paint and no filler cap. The wheels are too small but anything bigger would not fit into the rear wheel arches.

[1andrew1]

On 31/08/2023 at 00:25, 64F said:

Various first shots of forthcoming models have been shown on Oxford Diecast's facebook page over the last month or so - N-gauge Fiesta mk.I, Escort mk.II, Cortina mk.V and Capri mk.III, OO-gauge Metro, MG Midget mk.III and Dennis Eagle refuse truck.   

All looking pretty good with the exception of the Cortina, which unfortunately seems to have been modelled with a spoiler and splitter which I don't think were even factory options in the UK.  Either it is based on an export 'S' model or a tacky aftermarket customisation. Instantly the appeal of the model is reduced by 95%.  I had hoped over time to fill a rake of Revolution Cartics with these, but that will need to be re-thought.  Why on earth do manufacturers do this sort of thing...?

I would call this a spoiler alert 😂

Edited September 6, 2023 by 1andrew1