rouse2037 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 ok,ok i AM in a muddle now. Been looking thru loads and loads of mags, loads of web sites too, flicking thru pages of my own "ideas and plans" book and yet i STILL cannot find a HO switching track plan that i like and want to build in 4'x1' (or very slightly bigger). Help! It's only monday and i'm muddled.... Any suggestions for a track plan guys!??? Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Yes, I suggest a large bribe to the "Dean of Density", Shortliner. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Do you have any thoughts regarding location, industries, era, inspirational ideas or even whether you'd want single or multiple fiddle yard exits....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Check the Profs Chicago layout HO version on Carl Arendts website, you can have a switching layout and fiddleyard in 4x1. Chicago fork I'm planning on doing a Miami version, or it might get moved towards Orlando, but typically Floridian. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northpoint Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Here's something I did in about 4ft some years ago. It was based on a simple Inglenook with a kick-back siding. It never got ant further than you see in the pics - I might consider having another go at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northpoint Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Here's something I did in about 4ft some years ago. It was based on a simple Inglenook with a kick-back siding. It never got ant further than you see in the pics - I might consider having another go at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Give me an idea of what you are looking for Roger, and I'll have a think - 48" really does limit you to short locos eg 44-, 45-, or 70 tonners, the little four wheel EMD, or a trackmobile, and (probably 40' cars. You may get away with a SW9/1200/1500 but that is about it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hi Roger, If you can stretch to 5 feet, here's a track plan that works really well, based on the classic 'double inglenook' arrangement. As mentioned earlier, small switchers and 40ft cars are the order of the day, together with Peco Code 100 track and small radius turnouts. With 4 spurs there is plenty of switching action. There are 2 ways to operate the layout. 1. The most prototypical would see a stored train, partially hidden behind the Grain Elevator, being pulled into the headshunt (yard lead) and then proceed to switch the 2 Grain Elevator spurs at the front, then return to storage. A second train then being pushed from storage to switch the warehouse and team track and return. 2. Less prototypical, but perhaps more engaging, would be to have a switcher pull a train into the headshunt (yard lead) and a second switcher (permanently stabled at the warehouse or team track) to cut cars from the train for the warehouse/team track. The train loco would then switch the Grain Elevator. Train would be made up and return to storage Hope this helps, but good luck with whatever you decide regards, Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Roger - it would also be useful to know the absolute maximum size you can accomodate, and if that includes any fiddle track, or could that be added for operations. Is the 48" because of storage (could it, for example, fold in half - either sideways or "up and over"). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I would think there are really only two or three basic track plans that can be put on a 1x4 space. 3 or 4 facing point spurs or 2 or 3 facing point spurs and switchback. I'm sure at some point after I retire I figure I will be in an apartment or condo and my only option will be to build something like this. My thought would be to build a generic track plan and then put a series of "foundations" along the tracks. Then I could swap out buildings that fit on the foundations. One week it would be a grain elevator, next week a chemical plant, the following week a team track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 As Dave 1905 says, there's only so many realistic permutations of track layout that can fit in 4ft (I think Jack has invented most of 'em!! ). Have you actually tried setting a trackplan out - even if only mocked up - and actually operating it? You may be surpised how much potential is in even the simpler-looking plans. Some of the best advice I've seen lately is by Lance Mindheim :- "Remember, a real railroad does not lay track just to have an 'interesting' trackplan or to make it a 'challenge' for it's Crews; it lays track to serve industries as efficiently as possible." Also; "The number of car spots on a layout NOT the number of Industries will determine the operating potential." Check out Palmetto Spur on this Forum - to look at, the trackplan is boringly simple; but follow the thread and check out the ; this layout is far from boring to operate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It is possible to use "trickery" if you can add a seperate fiddle yard - turnouts eat space - so removing some of them from the main board, and deciding that they are "down the line" beyond a scenic divider and using either a traverser, or a sector plate (or a combination) immediately solves the problem for runaround loops. The second limiting factor is length of rolling stock - a 40' car is almost exactly 6" over couplings, and a SW9 is about the same, a 50' car is about 7.25" and a GP loco is about the same or slightly longer44-, 45-, and 70-tonners are around 4.5" - 5", so a proper inglenook 5:3:3 formation needs about 4' 8.5" =Loco+3 in Headshunt+turnout+5 cars(longest siding) + space to clear cars past each other at the fouling points. A:2:2 inglenook will fit in 4' with headshunt, but at this point in time we don't know what Roger is hoping to do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 As Dave 1905 says, there's only so many realistic permutations of track layout that can fit in 4ft (I think Jack has invented most of 'em!! ). "Realistic" taken with a grain of salt. Some of the best advice I've seen lately is by Lance Mindheim :- "Remember, a real railroad does not lay track just to have an 'interesting' trackplan or to make it a 'challenge' for it's Crews; it lays track to serve industries as efficiently as possible." Also; "The number of car spots on a layout NOT the number of Industries will determine the operating potential." While I understand what he is saying. I really doubt that there is as much switching by "spot" as modelers like to think. I did a study of waybills several years ago and found that less than 5% of waybills had a specific spot on them. Any detail spotting requirements would have been provided by the industry directly to the local crew spotting the cars. Of the several hundred industries that have been on territories I've managed only a handful spotted cars by individual spot. The vast majority of cars could go against any door or in any position on the track. Also modelers like to move cars back and forth between tracks. On real railroads that isn't very popular because it costs money. The industry gets one free spot and one free pull. Every additional time the industry tells the railroad to move a car, the railroad can charge the industry a switching fee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 ....which is exactly why there is a market for trackmobiles! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Roger - it would also be useful to know the absolute maximum size you can accomodate, and if that includes any fiddle track, or could that be added for operations. Is the 48" because of storage (could it, for example, fold in half - either sideways or "up and over"). Hi Jack Couple of options really, regarding the size.. I currently have brackets wall mounted from a prior layout (now sold) and have a basic shelf plank measuring 63" x 12" plonked on top. To the left of this are some smaller wall brackets fixed (former fiddle yard) onto which another shelf plank of 48" x 6" would fit. So in that respect i'm lucky in that i have a fair old length of wall to put to use! I like the look of Alcanman's plan.. However....., as I had used a lump of the wonderful loft insulation foam board for Neptune Rd - and that comes in a size of 47" x 20" - I was thinking of using another piece of it again for this project hence the size limit... unless i joined 2 pieces together of course. Neptune Rd's headshunt holds a class 22 and 3 wagons and a 5:3:3 in the sidings. What with me being awkward - I like shunting with biggish loco's and my Atlas NS U23B measures 8.5" long. Using the "shelf" would sure give me more options plan wise. Cheers Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Many many thanks for all the replys and ideas so far! Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Stupid question, with all the constraints on space, why don't more "plank" modelers forget modeling cars and just switch engines? In other words model engine service tracks. Rather than all this hokey moving one or two cars between tracks all the time, model sets of engines that come in an have to be serviced and reconfigured for outbound trains. The northbound train came in with 3 GP38's and the southbound has to go out with 2 GP38's and an SD40. the SD40 should lead. All 3 switchers come in for servicing, so they need fuel and sand, but one has a broken window so it needs to be swapped out with the spare and put on the transfer over to the shop. OK, it you have to have cars, have a spot to unload a car of sand or a boxcar of company material. You can use big engines or smaller engines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Stupid question, with all the constraints on space, why don't more "plank" modelers forget modeling cars and just switch engines? In other words model engine service tracks. ... Oh boy that might open a can of worms on this side of the Pond... there's no end of "Small TMD" (Traction Maintenance Depot) layouts over here, often pushing the bounds of plausibility way beyond what any Inglenook-type Shunty plank might do... it's becoming a Cliche to match the "Great Western Railway Branch Line Terminus" layout of a few decades ago, which at the time was promoted as an ideal subject for small layouts... Of course, having castigated such a style of layout, I now have to admit to being Guilty as Charged of building almost the same sort of layout; Schiller Point in O Scale... :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi, Roger If I read your comments correctly, it look like you may have a total length of 9ft 3ins available. Here are a couple of plans that would alow you to run that nice NS U23B and modern 50ft cars. First, another 'double inglenook'. This one has a run-around. or my 'inglenook' layout CSX Palmetto Spur Have fun, Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Roger - this is what I have initially come up with , using both your shelves, and without a fiddle-yard, since you'd like to use biggish locos. Basically I have taken this layout http://www.the-gauge...php?f=46&t=4555 , turned it around and modified it a bit. Note that there is no "Main" as such - using the shift-work concept, when you complete your switching for the day you hand over to the next crew, and they take it down the line - you go for a beer! Swap a couple of cars while you are off shift and when you come back on your next shift there are some cars waiting on the loop (surprise, surprise) and you distribute them and make up a new outbound train. Make up switchlists, assign spots for some of the cars where the manager wants them ( note that cars will come from all over and some may have taken a week to ten days in transit, others perhaps 4 days - he will want to use the first loaded cars before later loadings - a good excuse to use way-bills and car cards!) If it isn't what you want - dump it - it is only a suggestion and I won't be offended! Best Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Mmmmm Kree Mee plan there Jack! I do like the look of that - thanks indeed!! Is the track marked "main" on the far right intended to be long enough just to hold a loco? Is that where i leave the loco and go for a beer?! I "obtained" some shiny new shelves at work today.. one is 6' x 1' and another 3' x 6". So that has decided the total I intend to use. Dabbling and scribbling then began and went on into the early hours.. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Why would you need a car washout? All the tank cars and covered hoppers would be assigned to a specific commodity service and wouldn't need to be cleaned. The industry would make the railroad provide clean boxcars. I would make it a warehouse for packaging inbound or make it vegetable oil (easier to pipe oil into the plant than fork lift the paper products) and put packaging where veggie oil is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouse2037 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Many thanks again to all for the replys and ideas and thoughts - keep 'em coming guys! Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Suddenly, I really fancy a "Kree - Mee Donut"............................. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yes the RH end is long enough for a loco only, so that runrounds can be done Sorry Dave - didn't realise they would be assigned to specific commodities - that is handy to know. For those who haven't come across it, the Kendallvile Terminal RR has a Kraft Products plant making Marshmallows, it is on this page http://carendt.morph...ge82/index.html It is a one industry ISL, but also has a spur siding that takes salt ( possibly for the county roads ) There was an interesting article in a way back MR - about shift time operations - I have it on the computer and have just been reading it again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.