RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 19, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2011 Cheddar is really starting to appeal now, a quick calculation based upon a 1:10560 map shows that I can fit the scenic section, and a short fiddle yard (on one end only) in the 12ft I have available. (modelling from the bridge to the station side edge of the cricket club. Looks an interesting trackplan, very interesting stock and some very attractive station buildings. Having searched the net for photos (including finding some rather good ones on ebay) my interest is now enough to start buying some books (at least I would have if i hadnt been tempted into buying components for stock. If ebay comes good I should soon have a 14xx and a collett goods, and other conversations are looking likely to result in the procurement of a 45xx and a pannier body...... Going to be keeping my eyes open for bargain AEC railcars as well.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfield_Park Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I can't help much regarding locations and stock as, despite previously living bang slap in the middle of GW territory for four years, my knowledge of the company and it's locations/operations is minimal (I'm strictly an LNER man). However, if I may make a recommendation for the era you may wish to model, I would suggest the immediate post-GWR period running up to the early 1950s. As part of the research for my current layout I've learnt a lot about this era and find that the combination of pre-grouping, pre-nationalisation and BR locomotives and stock (and the mixture of liveries as well) is great to model, as long as you don't mind the potential minefields you can stumble into! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Oldfield Park makes a good point. Although BR's liveries were adopted in 1949 the task of repainting everything obviously could not be accomplished overnight. Locos might be seen with GWR lettering, British Railways lettering in the GW alphabet and in Gill Sans, with the lion and wheel crest or no lettering at all. Coaches could have been blood and custard or crimson/carmine as appropriate, or experimental wine red, or choc-cream, or wartime brown. As for wagons, many of the ex-PO wagons would still have had paint on them! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2011 Oldfield Park makes a good point. Although BR's liveries were adopted in 1949 the task of repainting everything obviously could not be accomplished overnight. Locos might be seen with GWR lettering, British Railways lettering in the GW alphabet and in Gill Sans, with the lion and wheel crest or no lettering at all. Coaches could have been blood and custard or crimson/carmine as appropriate, or experimental wine red, or choc-cream, or wartime brown. As for wagons, many of the ex-PO wagons would still have had paint on them! Chris Plus the war years had seen lots of easements of Route Availability restrictions on secondary lines (plus the change I mentioned previously for 57XX) which allowed a wider variety of motive power on a number of lines in this period and later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2011 plus the fact that the boom in the number of cars and lorries had not yet occurred meant plenty of traffic. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Peters Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The EAST SOMERSET AND CHEDDAR VALLEY RAILWAYS: The 'Strawberry Line' is a VERY good book, lots of details and good drawings and station plans. Oh and don't forget that they actually ran Twinset Railcars on the Cheddar line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 20, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2011 Would there be singles as well or just the twins? Going to search our the article on conversion that was mentioned on here recently (mrj?) and start looking for cheap Lima models to hack up unless there is a kit available Will get that book ordered asap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Would there be singles as well or just the twins? From information in the Colin Judge railcar book, there were three Bristol workings in 1950, two of which included the Yatton to Wells Tucker Street section. At that time, single cars 21, 24 and 28 were based at St Phillip's Marsh as well as one pair 35/36, so it would appear that at least one of these would have been operated by a single car, or perhaps a pair of singles. There's also a photo of one of the later cars (possibly 24 or 28) at Wells in Chris Leigh's 'GWR Country Stations'. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2011 Would there be singles as well or just the twins? Going to search our the article on conversion that was mentioned on here recently (mrj?) and start looking for cheap Lima models to hack up unless there is a kit available Will get that book ordered asap It is an absolutely excellent book, well worth it even if you don't choose to model the line. This is the publisher's (equally excellent) website and one of my favourites for the Christmas present list http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/category.php?§ion=CatRailwayLine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 20, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2011 Thanks again for all the help, I have now ordered two books on the Cheddar line (Steaming through the Cheddar Valley by D Phillips and Steaming through the Cheddar valley by Mitchell & Smith) Will be placing a further order for The East Somerset and Cheddar Valley Railways: The Strawberry Line by R Harman once Amazon get it back into stock (unless I find a decent second hand price in the mean time.) Still three more days to go on one, and 6 days on the other with the ebay stuff, though so long as I get one loco to start building I'm not too worried. Will have to get on and list some modern stuff for sale at the weekend to fund all this! Now spending time trawling the internet looking for suitable photos, already came across some good ones on ebay Next step once I have the books, get a trackplan scanned and into Templot! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted July 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2011 Roger Carpenter has some good shots. Colour Rail have a few listed. Dead scale the length is 23 ft from 5 ways bridge to the home signal on the Wells side. 24 ft and you can include the quarry loading point on the Axbridge side. Somerset County archive will give you 1:2500 plans 1936 3rd ed if I remember rightly. I wasn't joking about Cheddar - I've been planning the layout for a while now! Station building is still used by Wells Cathedral Stone Masons. The goods shed has been converted into a private dwelling. Both are easily viewable from public roads. I was going to measure up the buildings at some point over the summer. Twin set was used. Also singles with a trailing car. You'll be needing Siphons and Fruit Ds for the strawberry traffic too. If you need any help, PM me or catch me at Railwells! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 20, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2011 Roger Carpenter has some good shots. Colour Rail have a few listed. Dead scale the length is 23 ft from 5 ways bridge to the home signal on the Wells side. 24 ft and you can include the quarry loading point on the Axbridge side. Somerset County archive will give you 1:2500 plans 1936 3rd ed if I remember rightly. I wasn't joking about Cheddar - I've been planning the layout for a while now! Station building is still used by Wells Cathedral Stone Masons. The goods shed has been converted into a private dwelling. Both are easily viewable from public roads. I was going to measure up the buildings at some point over the summer. Twin set was used. Also singles with a trailing car. You'll be needing Siphons and Fruit Ds for the strawberry traffic too. If you need any help, PM me or catch me at Railwells! Will definitely try and catch you at Wells, out of interest what year would you be planning to model it in? Should mine go ahead with Cheddar, I look forward to seeing how two models of the same location turn out. Seems that the Somerset Council have only the 1st and 2nd issue maps online sadly. Good to hear that both structures remain, makes life a lot easier! Which siphons are you referring to? I am guessing it would be too much to ask for them to be the diagrams modelled by Hornby & lima... Will get some Parkside Fruit D's next time I see a stockist at a show! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Seems that the Somerset Council have only the 1st and 2nd issue maps online sadly. Have you had a look at Old Maps? 1930 1:2500 appears to be on there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Have you seen this - http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S423.htm (signal box diagram) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 21, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks for the signal diagram Very handy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted July 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2011 I e-mailed the County Archive and they sent me hard copies of the maps at no charge bless 'em! The lima & Hornby Siphons are indeed the correct ones used. Both inside and outside framed. There are photos of them stabled at Cheddar. There was a special strawberry train that started at Cheddar and ran to Birmingham Snow Hill via Witham for many years. Prior to about 1949, there was a goods train which ran to/from Cheddar from Yatton too. The 2 main books have a mixture of WTTs in the appendices which are useful. There are loads of photos with siphons attached to timetabled passenger trains. I'm thinking about doing my usual 'split' period thing (similar to Wheal Elizabeth but not as extreme). The late '40's appeals with a mixture of GWR and early BR, but then so does the later BR period. The only real difference to the station was the truss under the footbridge that appeared fairly late on and the platform fencing that changed. I've a photo of D6342 Type 2 at Cheddar in 1963 which is handy having built this engine already for Wheal E. Hymeks appeared late on stone traffic when Cheddar was a siding from Witham, though there are a series of photos showing one in a snowdrift somewhere near Draycott. Engine wise, the first down train from Witham was a Bulldog turn (and then 43xx) for many years so I've a Mitchell mogul to build too! Coaches: B sets prevailed, though there are shots of Hawksworths on later trains (and even LMS coaches in the early 40's). I guess these were re-inforcements. The usual pattern was for a train to run a circuit from Temple Meads via the Cheddar Valley branch and back via the North Somerset (Frome) branch and vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 21, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks again, Books are now dispatched so hopefully will arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to being able to do some proper research and crack on with the templotting! Think I may have to have a crack at building a Bulldog sometime (once the 'important' stock has been finished) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Rich, I'm not sure how wedded you are to the circa 1949 period but stock and motive power was at least as interesting towards the end of the branch's life in 1963. In Hugh Ballantyne's book "Western Steam in Colour", published in 1990, there is a shot of 41208 entering Cheddar with a Centenary brake composite and Collett corridor second. In the same book Shepton Mallet High St is pictured with a pannier on two coaches, the second of which is a BR suburban to judge by the ventilators, crossing a rake of Mk 1s. In "Western Steam in Colour Vol 2" Hugh includes a pic of Cheddar station with 41245 hauling a SR CCT and a B set and one of Wells Tucker Street with a tender first Collett 0-6-0 and a Mk 1 coach, still in blood and custard in 1963. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 22, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2011 Interesting, Going to have to have a look for that "Western Steam in Colour" book, the photo of the Centenary / Collet 2nd combination sounds fascinating. I assume that the Centenary would by that point have been displaced by mk1s on its intended work, and someone forming a train out of whatever was lying around at Bristol put it to use. Already having a damaged Centenary break in a stockbox somewhere from my childhood, this may have to be modelled no matter which period I decide on for the main operating! Speaking of books, Are there any other recomendations that I should be looking towards, other than the previously mentioned books on the branch. Thinking towards sources for photos for detailing locos and rolling stock (taking the place of the good old fotopic search I used when modelling modern stuff.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 British Railways Illustrated Summer Annual No. 3 has an article on the line by Martin Smith, including a pic of the green clerestory camping coach at Cheddar in 1956 and, much to my surprise, a 14xx tank on the line. The HMRS book "GW Siphons" by Slinn and Clarke [now being revised, I'm told] has a long list of Siphons G branded "Return to Yatton", presumably for fruit traffic. Towards the end of their lives the Centenary coaches were used in all sorts of strange places, having long since ceased to be kept in sets. The Strawberry Line was built to broad gauge so its clearances were generous - this is why there is a water crane betwen the tracks at Wells Tucker Street. There was a long list of places where they were not permitted to work: if you ever find a reference to Red Triangle stock and it's not about dmus, it's about centenary stock. Quite why those coaches were not kept to work with the super saloons in Ocean Liner specials is a Good Question. If you ask Tim Venton nicely he might let you have a copy of the carriage working programme for the Bristol area current for the winter timetable 1951-52, which you will find very useful. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted July 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2011 Did you know there are some photos of the station in the HMRS mystery photo section? My link Kind regards Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 24, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks Duncan Couple of very useful photos there, in particular the one showing the line into the station from the wells direction and the one of the back of the station building Just finished reading steaming through the cheddar valley, plan is really starting to come together in my head now. Question, is it a single slip at the enterence to the goods shed? I think I can see switch rails on one road only, but not certain if it's a slip or not One view I haven't found so far is a close picture of either the road over bridge at the north end, or a photo of the road under bridge at the wells end Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 If you ask Tim Venton nicely he might let you have a copy of the carriage working programme for the Bristol area current for the winter timetable 1951-52, which you will find very useful. Chris Thanks Chris! See you at Railwells no doubt! Just checked and I also have a carriage working book from May 1941, but not one from 1949. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted July 29, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2011 Yes it is a single slip. I haven't found any photos of the bridges yet, though I'm still searching. The Yatton overbridge is still in situ, alas the Wells underbridge is but a memory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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