RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2011 Following from persuasion from the other half, coupled with a desire to try something new I have started planning to build a steam era layout. In the past ten years my modelling has been purely 'modern image' and tbh its starting to loose its appeal, a couple of visits to preserved railways coupled with Helen's interest in history has resulted in her convincing me to have a further look at modelling steam. First up there is the long term project of modelling Woody Bay on the L&B. however given my lack of experience in steam kit building, in particular with chassis design, I have decided to continue with it on the back burner for the time being and try and build up a bit more experience. We are due to move house in early 2013 giving me a large garage for my layouts, I have decided that the aim is to have one wall with steam and the other having Blackcombe Tor (with the 008 project ending up in the workshop indoors) All this rambling intro brings me to the topic at hand, what to actually model. Now my steam knowledge is limited, I am happy to try kits and have built modern etched wagons but when it comes to identifying locations, understanding opperations etc I havent a clue. For modern layouts I have relied on Fotopic and google earth/planning portal in the past. Stock wise, other than some dated GW wagons, a stripped autocoach, a Lima 94xx body and an airfix large prarie body Its starting from scratch (I have now added a Bachmann 57xx pannier body from ebay) I have been looking at the highlevel chassis kits for the 14xx, 57xx and Collet Goods, along with the Bachmann 45xx, and really do love the GW dmus. The first two locations I have looked at was Calne (a location I have always wanted a model of, but just two big a track plan) and Yelverton (researched the location a few years back, but after discussing it with Brinkly tonight it might be too limited on both locos and lacking in operation. It is probably also too large as well. A second thought was March Mills on the Plymouth - Tavistock - Launceston line, which does appear to show a lot of promise. I would be interested in a couple more suggestions towards locations on branches that could give, a good mix of locos, some passenger & freight interest, location wise I would be looking either for something in Devon, or within relatively close range of Bristol Other than that the project will be in P4, era wise I am torn, with the 1930s, the war years or the transition between GW and BR all having a lot of appeal. Just one day spent thinking about this project has massively rekindled my modelling interest, even more so than the L&B research. I suspect this is to say that (for the time being at least) modern modelling has lost its appeal... Thanks in advance for any advice / assistance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Simple initial question, how much space do you have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2011 Rich if you are thinking that a small location will be too limiting in terms of locos etc and more complex places will be too large. Somethings gotta give. Either more compact than the prototype or wider range of stock or you need more space time everything. Which way to you want to go. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2011 The North or West Somerset lines might be worth a look if you are interested in the possible wider variety of trains/motive power but still want 'small' stations. If you go further west apart from Chard (more as an idea than a slavish copy) or the Barnstaple branch you are tending to get into weight restricted lines with limited selections of motive power unless you take on the ones with a more 'mainline through train' nature, viz Kingsbridge, Kingswear, Par-Newquay, or the Falmouth branch (the latter might be worth a look too, possibly Perranwell?). Era I think is a matter of finding the things you like, perhaps tempered by availability of suitable stock be it convertible r-t-r or kits; but mainly I think the 'things you like' or 'things you remember' and then getting the period which those things fall into. If you want freight variety (to the extent it existed on such lines) you might be tied to a particular period just as you could be with, say, your favourite loco classes or even road vehicles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 17, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2011 The thing with how much space is available is a difficult one, to start with I have 12ft by 2t in my current house, however I am not overly worried about having a fiddle yard to start with (as this can be added once I have the garage) With stock, I am not really trying to have that much (the 14xx/pannier/45xx + one class of small tender engine would do nicely, better yet if the dmu could also somehow be included) Cost will be a significant issue given the price of Ultrascales, so I do intend to keep the numbers down. One thing that appeals with something like March Mills is the road bridge after the station offering a perfect scenic break cutting off the pointwork on one side reducing size. I guess that part of the problem at this starting point is that in my head I dont have a clear idea exactly what i am looking for (which is not a lot of help to the reader...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2011 The North or West Somerset lines might be worth a look if you are interested in the possible wider variety of trains/motive power but still want 'small' stations. If you go further west apart from Chard (more as an idea than a slavish copy) or the Barnstaple branch you are tending to get into weight restricted lines with limited selections of motive power unless you take on the ones with a more 'mainline through train' nature, viz Kingsbridge, Kingswear, Par-Newquay, or the Falmouth branch (the latter might be worth a look too, possibly Perranwell?). Mike we must be one and the same, I wrote a reply to a PM to Rich suggesting Somerset and Kingswear without reading your post. I think for variation these two might be a better route to look at purely on the grounds of operational interest and space, Yelverton would need to be quite wide to be fair because of the curve to Princetown. I did suggest St. Ives, perhaps modelled out of season when trains where shorter, which is similar to Mike's Newquay idea which is a good one. Marshmills is an interesting one, but all bar shunting in the clay works, not much else went on. Unless you went down the route of a make-believe... Regards, Nick Or even Bewdley as I suggested in the PM, ex GWR Railcars there. B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Rich, if you want to run a GW railcar - and why not? - you really do not want to be exploring south-west of Yatton. This former junction threw off two branches - to Clevedon with almost wall-to-wall autos, and to Witham via Cheddar and Wells with a greater variety of stock and motive power. Part of this line survives as the East Somerset and the link to the Foster Yeoman quarry. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2011 Fractionally out of your preferred area brings a station to mind that almost fits your requirements. This is one that you have looked at before, Bodmin general. Motive power is limited mostly being 45xx but 57xx and SR locos were found at the station so that might give you the differences in stock that you want. You also have the bridge to cut down on length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 If you are thinking terminus in Somerset. Minehead is interesting but does take some room and is difficult to end scenically. For a through station Watchet is nice and easy to close off. The addition of the dock sidings mean that all sorts of traffic could be possible. WSM is too big and Clevedon rather limited. Another intesting though station is Dulverton. The D&S service to Barnstaple was fairly short trains with some going through to Ilfracombe add in the exe valley service and its quite interesting. In fact when the main line to exeter was closed ( bomb damage during the war) services were re-directed though Dulverton with the Cornish Rivierra Express pulled by a 43xx and a big pannier(61xx?) had to reverse at Dulverton. However for variety of services and stock Kingswear is unbeatable and again all this passed through Churston with the addition of the Brixham auto-service. None of the above saw Railcars regularly so far as I know but there is always IMTS. Just thinking of these will have my Cambrian stock back in the box and the GWR stuff relocated to somewhere in the SW. Having lived in earshot of Churston and then Minehead I now in the Isle of wight rather miss the sounds although we do have small aircraft flying over. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 The cheddar branch sounds interesting What else might I expect to see running there? While I intend to start buying up a number of books on which ever station I finally go with, I don't really want to be buying them just to view a track plan / map The Internet seems to be letting me down regarding finding such info Thanks again for the help so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hi Rich, See if you can beg, borrow or blag copies of Wild Swan's Great Western Branchline Midelling. It is 3 volumes but is IMHO an absolute must for this type of project. Link to Vol 2 here http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/0906867983.php They are out of print and S/H copies seem pricey but if you can look at a copy I think you'll see their value. HTH Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 ...The Internet seems to be letting me down regarding finding such info... Try Old Maps or Somerset CC Archives (see Maps & Postcards section). Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 Thanks Nick Website doesn't seem to open in my phone but will try again on the laptop when I get home Sounds perfect for early research Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hi Rich, This website is always good. Type in the area, or in our case station and search the maps. Here is a nice mat of Yatton in the 1930s. Regards, Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 Sorry posted twice. (Can be deleted) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 Thanks again, Those map websites are perfect. In the process of saving down maps of a couple of locations that have caught my interest. Cheddar really appeals, as does Dulverton, however I am now starting to wonder if perhaps a terminus would be a more sensible approach. Does this open up any further good avenues of investigation? After a quick look through the Ultrascale website I am having second thoughts about the number of locos to model, the price of wheels is a lot higher than I remember it being last time I brought any! As such, I want to keep the fleet small (yellow route restriction comprising of a 14xx / 57xx/ 45xx (along with a single 0-6-0 tender either collet or dean (justified under the its my trainset if necessary) Bodmin was a definite consideration that I have tried to avoid thinking about too much for two reasons, one being a very good P4 layout in a similar period to that which I am considering, and secondly the temptation to have a change of heart half way through and convert the layout into my original bodmin plan... That said, looking again at Bodmin does start to make me think about what other Terminus options I could consider. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 After a quick look through the Ultrascale website I am having second thoughts about the number of locos to model, the price of wheels is a lot higher than I remember it being last time I brought any! As such, I want to keep the fleet small (yellow route restriction comprising of a 14xx / 57xx/ 45xx (along with a single 0-6-0 tender either collet or dean (justified under the its my trainset if necessary) Just for info - 57XX were Blue route availability until 1950 when they were changed to Yellow; which might influence the period you wish to model or other decisions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Scaled, Ashburton is 11ft long in 4mm - RM had a plan of it at one time. The runround held 17 cattle wagons - just. In 12ft x 2ft we have to be talking compromise - but no one's yet mentioned Helston or Fowey, both of which (could have) had interesting traffic patterns. Then there's the proposed but not built lines along the South Hams, Ashburton to Exeter and many more - they've all been covered here (or I can list them again) Rich - we're modelling the same sort of thing with the same sort of space considerations. And yes, my thoughts have had to be curtailed. Cost was only one consideration - time is the major one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 ...After a quick look through the Ultrascale website I am having second thoughts about the number of locos to model, the price of wheels is a lot higher than I remember it being last time I brought any!... You might consider using Gibson wheels I started using Ultrascales when I got back into modelling a few years ago, but their prices and delivery delays made me change to using Gibsons and I haven't regretted it. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 You might consider using Gibson wheels I started using Ultrascales when I got back into modelling a few years ago, but their prices and delivery delays made me change to using Gibsons and I haven't regretted it. Nick to be honest I prefer the higher quality that comes with Ultrascales, and previously have found them a lot better running than Gibson fitted stock. That said, I do think I need to invest in a wheel press and once I have that will definitely be giving Gibsons a try for at least one loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 Pity you're not still coming to DRAG, Rich, we could have some serious fun working something out for you. Does it have to be a model of an actual prototype? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 Pity you're not still coming to DRAG, Rich, we could have some serious fun working something out for you. Does it have to be a model of an actual prototype? Indeed it is a shame, If only DRAG was the first monday of the month not the second as im down in Devon for the first week of August on holiday with Helen (though what she would think about me disappearing off to DRAG while I am down I don't know. On the plus side I have got a visit of both the Painton & Dartmouth and the South Devon railways planned while we are down, start building up a collection of loco / stock detail photos. As for it being an actual prototype, I am completely open to a fictional design I just havent the knowledge to design it. Modelling a real location means that not only is the trackplan designed for my, but also books etc will let me know what stock I need to get to run on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted July 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2011 Scaled, Ashburton is 11ft long in 4mm - RM had a plan of it at one time. The runround held 17 cattle wagons - just. In 12ft x 2ft we have to be talking compromise - but no one's yet mentioned Helston or Fowey, both of which (could have) had interesting traffic patterns. Then there's the proposed but not built lines along the South Hams, Ashburton to Exeter and many more - they've all been covered here (or I can list them again) Rich - we're modelling the same sort of thing with the same sort of space considerations. And yes, my thoughts have had to be curtailed. Cost was only one consideration - time is the major one. Just been reading through your blog, very inspirational! Really like the workbench, something that is on my todo list over the summer. Will have a look at Helston & Fowey after work tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MPR Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hi Rich I went through similar thought processes when selecting my layout subject - and still do occasionally when fed up with progress on Torre! I wouldn't rule out a through station, as you could always operate it single ended, and there are many more options to choose from. A few thoughts.... The Teign valley line has been mentioned a few times recently on RMWeb, and with good reason. Christow and Trusham would both make fine (larger) models, and Ashton was as pretty as Staverton with a few more areas of interest (engine shed) and was even the terminus for a few years. The rolling stock would match your requirements well, with 57xx panniers being commonly used on the line, plus 14xx tanks and small prairies. A Manor visited the line at least once, and 43xx moguls visited on the infrequent occasions the line was pressed into diversionary service for the seawall section of the mainline. In earlier days SRMs were commonly used, so I guess you could stretch reality somwhat and have one of the AECs stand in for it. If you are modelling the war years, it is reported that B12s were used on US ambulance trains over part of the line. (Peter Kay's comprehensive history of the line is highly recommended.) The main problem with Kingswear is that it is enormous! To do justice to the location you would need both height (for the hillside behind) and depth (to get the river and coal jetties in). Add to this platforms long enough to take the mainline expresses (and lots of them) and you will have a major project on your hands! I have wondered in the past if a fictionalised version of Churston might be worth a try - there were alternative plans for the Brixham branch that went further south, so you could have "Galmpton for Brixham" with a south facing Brixham bay, and the goods yard brought parallel to the platform rather than in the triangular area beyond the road bridge where it stood in reality - Google Earth the road overbridge just south of the real Churston to see a plausible location for this flight of fancy! On the subject of imaginary railways, there were plans for a Paignton to Totnes direct railway diverging from the Kingswear branch at Goodrington. This would have had a station at Longcombe Cross by the Paignton to Totnes road. I imagine this as a single track railway, but with heavy engineering to allow some Paignton-bound trains to regain the mainline and continue to Plymouth. Given that William Clarke was engaged as engineer for the Kingsbridge branch, it would be feasible to transplant some of his lovely buildings to this counter-factual outpost of the GWR! William Clarke buildings also featured at Dymock -check out the picture of the GWR diesel railcar at this supremely modellable location in GW Branchline Modelling Volume 1. Hope this gives you some further ideas, good luck! Best Wishes Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ullypug Posted July 18, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2011 Oi Rich You can't do Cheddar 'cos I want to! 14xx, 57xx, 45xx, 2251 & railcars all ran on the Cheddar Valley & North Somerset lines. Sandford and Banwell always appealed to me with its separate branch to the quarry. A bit easier now you can get a Sentinel. I always liked the idea of a 'might have been' somewhere on the originally proposed route from Weston via Bleadon & Uphill to Cheddar, rather than the actual route from Yatton. I think Blagdon's got a lot of potential for a small space. Then there's clay country cos you can never have enough china clay layouts! Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the dark side! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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