The End for National Express East Anglia (and c2c)

[justin1985]

Well the news has broken that National Express East Anglia won't be given the chance to take up the 3 year extension to their franchise, so be will be gone at the end of March 2011. I think I had heard before that they were on track with the performance figures to qualify for the extension, but Andrew Adonis has taken the decision to refuse it because of the cross-default clause with East Coast. This seems a little dubious to me, logically I would have expected that the cross default should have been applied immediately, or ignored which would have allowed them to qualify for the extension. This appears to have been cast as a pragmatic move: fewer re-liveries etc.

 

My first thoughts: GREAT! I'll be glad to see the back of them ...

 

But, better the devil you know? How much worse could it get? Then again, National Express appear to have carved costs to the absolute bone (deteriorating catering, no first class benefits whatsoever, many fewer platform staff, virtually no revenue protection, very poor standards of cleaning ...) what room would there be even for the likes of Stagecoach to make it any worse ? (short of not fulfilling service obligations)

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/now-national-express-loses-east-anglia-rail-franchise-1827808.html

[Glorious NSE]

what room would there be even for the likes of Stagecoach to make it any worse ?

 

Suspect you could do a lot worse, what they have done for SWT is generally pretty positive, although current cost squeezes are taking the shine off their accomplishments a bit.

[Richard E]

From talking to contacts in Network Rail Stagecoach make Nat Ex look like paragons of virtue who hand everything to the traveller on a plate at minimal cost.

 

I'm told that S W Trains have the highest ratio of complaints per passenger mile and the most crowded trains on the network.

[Ravenser]

I'ts worth pointing out that we will have a General Election long before the franchise expires, after which we will have a different Government (either Tory or Libdem/Lab coalition) and a different Minister . It's even remotely concievable there might a different Department...

 

This is a strong sounding statement which doesn't actually mean very much in practice, because the people making it won't be around when it is supposed to be implemented

[Trevellan]

This does appear to be a "toys out of the pram" exercise. It conveniently overlooks the faults inherent in the tendering process and that DfT itself is hardly a paragon of virtue for several reasons.

 

Few people seem to realise that the current bidding process is incredibly expensive. ??3-5m per bid is not unusual. That sort of money would provide a lot of much-needed transport investment...

 

 

[Burkitt]

...the current bidding process is incredibly expensive. ??3-5m per bid is not unusual. That sort of money would provide a lot of much-needed transport investment...

 

Well, about one three-car DMU at current prices. The bidding process is definitely far too expensive, though.

 

Paul

['CHARD]

Well, about one three-car DMU at current prices. The bidding process is definitely far too expensive, though.

 

Paul

In fairness, if the structure of the industry were different, especially with respect to over-complex contracting i.e. risk structures, and short-termism, not only would the ??5m tender costs be avoided, but the 3-car DMU itself would be lower in cost, probably and in price, most definitely.

[JohnR]

Since its unlikely that the Government (of whatever hue) will bring the franchise into public ownership permanently, how about combining the East anglia and east coast?

 

Fewer franchises and longer terms would make the best out of a bad lot.

[great central]

Suspect you could do a lot worse, what they have done for SWT is generally pretty positive, although current cost squeezes are taking the shine off their accomplishments a bit.

Not many weeks ago, NXEA staf were positively looking forward to Stagecoach taking over.

In my opinion there's not much to choose between any of the private companies.

It's just that planet railway is being dragged kicking an screaming into the 20th century.

Many of my colleagues wish that NX were still in charge of us. In some ways I think Stagecoach are better.

My feeling is that the first franchises were a transition from BR,and had a degree of freedom, subsequent ones are bound to be different, not helped by 'guidance' from the DfT.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Suspect you could do a lot worse, what they have done for SWT is generally pretty positive, although current cost squeezes are taking the shine off their accomplishments a bit.

I agree with that. After the early years, where some silly mistakes were made, SWT have turned out to be one of the best passenger TOC's IMHO.

Unfortunately when they won the competition to retain the franchise nearly three years ago, like FGW, NXEC (and GNER before them), they had to bid with a commitment to a very large premium payment.

We've seen the sort of pressures brought to bear on those other TOC's saddled with such large premium commitments, with two of them going to the wall as a result.

In order to meet that commitment, SWT's are trying to save millions of ??????'s and have been making various cuts; inevitable it's bound to affect the service the customer gets in one way or the other.

If service delivery suffers, I'd say that it's the fault of the bidding process, the DfT and the Government, rather than the TOC.

 

From talking to contacts in Network Rail Stagecoach make Nat Ex look like paragons of virtue who hand everything to the traveller on a plate at minimal cost.

 

I'm told that S W Trains have the highest ratio of complaints per passenger mile and the most crowded trains on the network.

"I'm told" .... Mmmmm ????

Certainly trains are crowded at peak times, but you are talking about a major section of the busiest part of the railway network, and the largest UK train operator. Matters not helped by not being able to order replacement trains for the 22 442 Wessex sets withdrawn from SWT use and the consequent substitution of outer-suburban stock on some of their regional express services. DfT again !

 

Understandably a high proportion of complaints come from commuters having to suffer 3+2 seating all the way from the South coast to Waterloo and from First-Class season ticket holders who have to stand all the way from places like Winchester to London !

 

Other than those problems, SWT provide a superb service, with modern, clean trains and IMHO it's vastly better now than under BR in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Since its unlikely that the Government (of whatever hue) will bring the franchise into public ownership permanently, how about combining the East anglia and east coast?

Don't think it hasn't been considered.

 

 

Fewer franchises and longer terms would make the best out of a bad lot.

Longer terms certainly, subject to performance of course.

 

.

[Edwin_m]

It seems to me that the attitude and quality of a particular franchise has a lot more to do with the people who run the franchise itself, and the particular issues it faces, rather than which parent company is responsible for it. Thus for example First Transpennine and Scotrail are mostly reckoned to be doing a good job, but First Great Western has a less good reputation. London Midland seems to be pretty awful but Southern and Southeastern are quite highly thought of.

[Hobby]

It seems to me that the attitude and quality of a particular franchise has a lot more to do with the people who run the franchise itself

 

Think you'll find with LM that its more to do with the issues that they took over from Central and Silverlink re on board staff contracts than who is in charge... sooner or later someone is going to have to take the bull by the horns and do something about them and it'll be very bloody (or expensive)!

 

Re an earlier post regarding the next Gov, I thought that Nick Clegg had recently ruled out any coalition with Labour?

[Mod6]

Re an earlier post regarding the next Gov, I thought that Nick Clegg had recently ruled out any coalition with Labour?

 

A gentle reminder to everyone to keep away from politics please (read the rules); and be constructive and rational if you want to discuss the performances of TOCs. Thank you.

[Bernard Lamb]

Think you'll find with LM that its more to do with the issues that they took over from Central and Silverlink re on board staff contracts than who is in charge... sooner or later someone is going to have to take the bull by the horns and do something about them and it'll be very bloody (or expensive)!

 

 

Or !

Almost certainly both.

How you can even think of running a public transport system without providing contracted labour for seven days a week is mind boggling. Can you imagine any other public service run in such a cavalier manner. The only saving grace with London Midland is that they have introduced cheaper fares.

Bernard

[Hobby]

How you can even think of running a public transport system without providing contracted labour for seven days a week is mind boggling.

 

Quite!

 

(Mod6, My comment re LM was hardly destructive, just a realistic view on what might happen, as Bernard rightly points out above... And I take you were referring equally to the earlier poster as well as me re politics?!)

[Burkitt]

Since its unlikely that the Government (of whatever hue) will bring the franchise into public ownership permanently, how about combining the East anglia and east coast?

 

Don't think it hasn't been considered.

 

 

Didn't that used to be called the LNER?

[cnw6847]

My neighbour is a train driver in the anglia area, he's been on the railways about 5 years I think, he's worked for Anglia, ONE, National express and shortly someone else!

 

Each time its a new uniform etc

It most cost a fortune for new stationary, uniforms etc, what a waste of time and money.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....he's worked for Anglia, ONE, National express and shortly someone else! .....

Remember, the change from "One" to "National Express EA" wasn't a change of franchise or operator.

NX decided to re-brand it's own company.

An even bigger waste of money !

 

.

[justin1985]

I'll agree with most of the positive comments about SWT, in its original incarnation. However, after the re-franchise it really has become a very different beast. Most noticeably as a passenger is how they have gone from being swimming in revenue protection officers, to now seemingly having none whatsoever ... with obvious repercussions in terms of vandalism, antisocial behaviour etc!

 

What about East Midlands Trains? The only things I have heard about the transition from Midland Mainline to East Midlands have been overwhelmingly negative...

 

With regards to individual franchises having different characters within the same organisation ... why-o-why couldn't we have kept First Great Eastern! (But yes, I do take the point that the "first generation" franchises had a lot more leeway and much less financial pressure, so had the room to run a better service ...)

 

On a serious note though, we mainly seem to thinking in terms of NatEx v. Stagecoach v. First. Are there any thoughts floating around the industry at the moment about the other players who have current franchises or have made bids before? DB Regio is an obvious contender, if they would be interested in making a bid low enough for the D(a)fT to consider? What about NedRail ? Or other franchisees active in Europe, e.g. Veolia ?

[Richard E]

My neighbour is a train driver in the anglia area, he's been on the railways about 5 years I think, he's worked for Anglia, ONE, National express and shortly someone else!

 

Each time its a new uniform etc

It most cost a fortune for new stationary, uniforms etc, what a waste of time and money.

What a coincidence - a former colleague of mine became a driver about 5 years ago in the Anglia/One area working out of Cambridge initially. It was 6 years ago we were made redundant. Mind you I haven't seen him for some time. I used to get some wonderful stories about late turns with ECS to the sidings and then taking a kip on the cushions for a while until the set was due to return for it's next duty turn. He lives/lived in Peterborough and used to drive down for some of his duty turns as there weren't any trains that got him there in time to clock on!

 

Fair comment about uniforms but, as far as the ECML goes the staff are still wearing the GNER uniform with only a change of shirt/blouse and tie/scarf so the costs there have not been as great, apart from normal wear and tear, as one might expect. I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't similar on some other franchises.

[JohnR]

Didn't that used to be called the LNER?

 

Theres a reason why the LNER (and the other companies, both pre-group and post-group) were the shape they were and had the lines they had. It grouped relevant traffic together. Yes there were a few oddities with lines penetrating into other areas for competition reasons, but these can be sorted.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I'll agree with most of the positive comments about SWT, in its original incarnation. However, after the re-franchise it really has become a very different beast. Most noticeably as a passenger is how they have gone from being swimming in revenue protection officers, to now seemingly having none whatsoever ... with obvious repercussions in terms of vandalism, antisocial behaviour etc! .....

As they've had to bid such a high premium to retain the franchise, I guess it was inevitable that cost cutting to help pay the rent would eventually affect the service in one way or another. There are other areas where they're cutting back too. All because of the current franchising policy ("cough up or you're out!") and as a result, undermining all the progress and good work achieved up to now.

 

If as you say, trains are being damaged as a result of staff being removed, I wonder how that affects their contract with Seimens if it involves the Desiro fleet? Seimens own and maintain the Desiro's and are contracted to supply a minimum of X servicable, clean trains per day. I would have thought SWT are contracted to return them to the Seimens depot in good nick - duty of care and all that?

 

 

What about East Midlands Trains? The only things I have heard about the transition from Midland Mainline to East Midlands have been overwhelmingly negative...

Ah, but EMT have not just taken on MML's services; they also took over the Eastern section of Central Trains too.

The ex-Central bit constitutes almost two-thirds of the new TOC, by fleet size, if not by passenger numbers.

By all accounts it's not turning out to be an easy job having to sort out that lot.

CT left a run-down operation and EMT have inherited a mottly fleet of Sprinters with which to run a mix of regional, inter-regional cross-country and local services. I guess many of these services run at a loss too?

EMT's list of things to do looks incredibly long and challenging.

 

 

With regards to individual franchises having different characters within the same organisation ... why-o-why couldn't we have kept First Great Eastern! .....

Presumably greater efficiency and cost saving. Having 3 separate operators belonging to "One" company, running into the same London terminus did seem a bit daft - all that duplication of overheads and running costs etc.

 

 

....DB Regio is an obvious contender, if they would be interested in making a bid low enough for the D(a)fT to consider? ....

Shouldn't that be "a bid high enough" ?

He who bids the highest seems to win the day. Unfortunately, he who promises the Earth has "become a cropper" on 2 occasions already in the last couple of years and it's squeezing a couple of others too.

 

One would hope that there is a certain amount of reflection going on in Whitehall and at the DfT...but I doubt it.

In any event, there may be a totally different agenda on the table by this time next year !

 

.

[Mod6]

(Mod6, My comment re LM was hardly destructive, just a realistic view on what might happen, as Bernard rightly points out above... And I take you were referring equally to the earlier poster as well as me re politics?!)

 

I didn't suggest it was, I was just making a pre-emptive strike if you like at everyone since you had referred to more general political issues such as LibDem/Labour coalitions, and we don't want to drift off into that or any other party political area.

[Glorious NSE]

Ah, but EMT have not just taken on MML's services; they also took over the Eastern section of Central Trains too.

The ex-Central bit constitutes almost two-thirds of the new TOC, by fleet size, if not by passenger numbers.

By all accounts it's not turning out to be an easy job having to sort out that lot.

CT left a run-down operation and EMT have inherited a mottly fleet of Sprinters with which to run a mix of regional, inter-regional cross-country and local services. I guess many of these services run at a loss too?

EMT's list of things to do looks incredibly long and challenging.

 

They have certainly had a lot of bad press on the ex CT side of things, but my impression is that many of the issues are both inherited and have solutions out of the TOCs control (not enough capacity for example, with no authorisation to increase the fleet to handle it)

 

Shouldn't that be "a bid high enough" ?

He who bids the highest seems to win the day. Unfortunately, he who promises the Earth has "become a cropper" on 2 occasions already in the last couple of years and it's squeezing a couple of others too.

 

One would hope that there is a certain amount of reflection going on in Whitehall and at the DfT...but I doubt it.

In any event, there may be a totally different agenda on the table by this time next year !

 

I would imagine that the present financial climate will result in more realistic bids going in this time...No matter how gung-ho the management might feel they'd still need the finances to back that up, and that could be interesting. Nobody is likely to sign up to finance things based on 20 years of solid growth at the moment (even though that's arguably much more likely from this point in time than it was 2 years ago!)