Hornby corroded class 31 chassis

[richierich]

Here some pictures from the latest Hornby R2413 class 31 270 I have acquired.

 

Note the fractures in the surface of the metal. Particularly badly effected are the cast plates that fit over the coupling cam. I’m sure these as they expand bend the under cab section downwards. The metal is very brittle, almost like a biscuit.

 

Shows even those re-using the chassis block under another body should be aware, the metal is will disintegrate!

 

Ideally a cast brass or aluminium chassis block would be ideal. Although I might finally have ago at finishing my prototype plastic card scratch built chassis block.

Edited February 3, 2018 by richierich

[MikeParkin65]

Here some pictures from the latest Hornby R2413 class 31 270 I have acquired.

 

Note the fractures in the surface of the metal. Particularly badly effected are the cast plates that fit over the coupling cam. I’m sure these as they expand bend the under cab section downwards. The metal is very brittle, almost like a biscuit.

 

Shows even those re-using the chassis block under another body should be aware, the metal is will disintegrate!

 

Ideally a cast brass or aluminium chassis block would be ideal. Although I might finally have ago at finishing my prototype plastic card scratch built chassis block.

Isnt R2413 one of the batch known to be affected by the rot - why would you someone choose to use a rot affected chassis? Just curious

[37114]

Isnt R2413 one of the batch known to be affected by the rot - why would you someone choose to use a rot affected chassis? Just curious

I chopped the ends off that crumbled and used in a Lima shell, so far no issues but I am aware that the chassis could degrade further. In future I will strip the motors and bogies out of the Hornby chassis and transplant it into the Lima chassis.

[adb968008]

I chopped the ends off that crumbled and used in a Lima shell, so far no issues but I am aware that the chassis could degrade further. In future I will strip the motors and bogies out of the Hornby chassis and transplant it into the Lima chassis.

Would be interested to see what a Hornby motor/bogies looks like in a Lima chassis.ive read this a couple of times but so far not required the challenge.

 

Does the same idea apply to Heljan 47’s ?

[37114]

Would be interested to see what a Hornby motor/bogies looks like in a Lima chassis.ive read this a couple of times but so far not required the challenge.

 

Does the same idea apply to Heljan 47’s ?

 

I will post some pics when done. Personally I would not attempt a similar mod with a Heljan 47 for 2 reasons

1) There are other modern spec 47s which are a much better starting point than a Lima shell

2) I never thought that the Heljan mechanisms were as good as Bachmann

[forest2807]

I will post some pics when done. Personally I would not attempt a similar mod with a Heljan 47 for 2 reasons

1) There are other modern spec 47s which are a much better starting point than a Lima shell

2) I never thought that the Heljan mechanisms were as good as Bachmann

Slightly off topic but 47s were mentioned. Here's a Lima frame, Heljan bogies/towers and underframe tanks. It has liquid lead in the tanks and I will shoehorn more weight in around a Heljan motor. Simple DC, no lights, but quite an effective use of spare parts I think! Body is Hornby ex 47401.

[richierich]

Although off topic, I have modified a Lima Class 47 Underframe and fitted Bachmann Class 57 bogies, motor and driveshafts. Its not something I would repeat.

 

If you search on here, you'll find James Wells did a conversion of a Lima Class 31 to use Hornby motor and bogies, as well as re-gauging to P4. Similarly Llanbourne North Wales on this thread, a Lima Class 31 received a similar conversion. Similarly it was a one-off conversion.

Edited February 4, 2018 by richierich

[londonbus]

And Rails of Sheffield are still selling these on EBay without making it clear that it's a corroded chassis.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-039-OO-039-GAUGE-R2420-BR-GREEN-CLASS-31-039-D5512-039-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-OS-/192430655829?

[Ncarter2]

And Rails of Sheffield are still selling these on EBay without making it clear that it's a corroded chassis.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-039-OO-039-GAUGE-R2420-BR-GREEN-CLASS-31-039-D5512-039-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-OS-/192430655829?

There are several sellers, both private and trade that are selling them but not being specific about the chassis issue. Found several Heljan 47’s also in a similar vain.

I would of thought trade sellers are legally obliged to disclose know. Issues, I’m sure trading standards could clarify.

Shame as I have always found Rails a very good place to buy from but seeing this add it does cast some shadow over their ethics.

[37114]

And Rails of Sheffield are still selling these on EBay without making it clear that it's a corroded chassis.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-039-OO-039-GAUGE-R2420-BR-GREEN-CLASS-31-039-D5512-039-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-OS-/192430655829?

It does say in the description there is a crack in the bodywork and the picture show the issue. I think it will be irrelevant as pricing it at £89 is also likely to ensure it doesn't get purchased, that is a ridiculous price for a damaged loco.  

[Ncarter2]

It does say in the description there is a crack in the bodywork and the picture show the issue. I think it will be irrelevant as pricing it at £89 is also likely to ensure it doesn't get purchased, that is a ridiculous price for a damaged loco.

 

True for those who know about the chassis rot issues. There are still some who are not fully aware of the issues these and others have. Given the high prices now commanded for these loco’s one, Poor unsuspecting modeller may purchase thinking they have a bargain and need to do a small repair then actually end up with expensive scrap bar the running gear. Only last week one went on the bay of E, Dutch one, listed as used but like new, tested only and excellent condition. Looking at the side on photos is was very evident that the chassis was swelling, it had a slight bow. Some poor fellow paid 3 figures. I doubt they new about the rot issues. One does not like to speak bad of others or cast aspersions but in this day and age too many lie or are Deceitful with the full true facts.

 

Personally I agree well over priced for a broken model, I fear someone will think it’s a simple repair and so a bargain.

[Melly]

It does say in the description there is a crack in the bodywork and the picture show the issue. I think it will be irrelevant as pricing it at £89 is also likely to ensure it doesn't get purchased, that is a ridiculous price for a damaged loco.  

 

Or this seller wanting £160 for a weathered 31270 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professionally-weathered-Hornby-class-31-31270-BR-Blue-livery-DCC-Ready/323037245491?hash=item4b36853033:g:zjcAAOSwZrhabkN8 which, anyone whos been around the hobby, will know will either:

 

A   -   Have a broken chassis under the body (small signs of cracking on body shell corners already) and will fall to bits the first time you take the body off.

B   -   Chassis will break in relatively short order.

 

I mean if your that accomplished to weather it you'll know . . . .wont you?

 

Not seen a 31 270 that hasn't rotted yet.

 

M

Edited February 4, 2018 by Melly

[royaloak]

Or this seller wanting £160 for a weathered 31270 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professionally-weathered-Hornby-class-31-31270-BR-Blue-livery-DCC-Ready/323037245491?hash=item4b36853033:g:zjcAAOSwZrhabkN8 which, anyone whos been around the hobby, will know will either:

 

A   -   Have a broken chassis under the body (small signs of cracking on body shell corners already) and will fall to bits the first time you take the body off.

B   -   Chassis will break in relatively short order.

 

I mean if your that accomplished to weather it you'll know . . . .wont you?

 

Not seen a 31 270 that hasn't rotted yet.

 

M

C - Was one of the early rotters and has been fitted with a replacement chassis from Hornby so all is well.

[jjb1970]

I think it is easy to assume that because people here are aware of the Mazak rot issue and recognise the signs that everybody else is. I would bet there are a lot of people out there who do not have the same awareness of Mazak rot, and I suspect there will be people who might think a crack is something they can live with or repair and repaint without realising that they're buying proper junk. However model shops should know this and if they're going to sell models afflicted with mzak rot they should make it very clear that a model is affected and that it will end up as junk. That doesn't mean there is no reason not to buy such a model as you can still break it down for spares, but there is a world of difference buying a model to break down and buying one which you think is a bit broken but usable only to find it breaks apart from a defect that the seller was aware of.

[richierich]

And Rails of Sheffield are still selling these on EBay without making it clear that it's a corroded chassis.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-039-OO-039-GAUGE-R2420-BR-GREEN-CLASS-31-039-D5512-039-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-OS-/192430655829?

Hattons also have a R2421 Civil Engineers with chassis issues and want £85.00 for it!

Edited February 5, 2018 by richierich

[mikesndbs]

Have to say I am personally utterly disgusted by these big shops profiteering off the back of those who may not know about the dreadful rotting metal issues.

If they were asking £20 it might not be so bad, but £90 for junk, really?

Very bad show indeed.

[richierich]

Another thought for replacement Class 31 chassis block would be to 3D print one…

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...- why would you someone choose to use a rot affected chassis? Just curious

 Because if you can find one at anything below £40, it's a steal for a good quality drive, to instantly upgrade past manufacturer's class 30 bodies. Happily the drive shafts have splined sliding sleeves so will compensate for any slight growth in length. And if the mazak block finally breaks, it is straightforward to fabricate a new mounting for the mechanism parts from a piece of brass channel. Done this once already as a cheap and easy route to fit up a friend's clapped Triang EM2 with a quality drive (he wasn't bothered about the undersize centre wheelsets).

[Melly]

C - Was one of the early rotters and has been fitted with a replacement chassis from Hornby so all is well.

 

If he was that knowledgeable to the flaw he would have said so in the listing.  Why would you NOT !!

 

M

[londonbus]

And Rails of Sheffield are still selling these on EBay without making it clear that it's a corroded chassis.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-039-OO-039-GAUGE-R2420-BR-GREEN-CLASS-31-039-D5512-039-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-OS-/192430655829?

Good on Rails - they have now updated their Ebay listing and made it clear the loco may be suffering from corroded metal. As you’d expect from a quality retailer.

[Ncarter2]

Good on Rails - they have now updated their Ebay listing and made it clear the loco may be suffering from corroded metal. As you’d expect from a quality retailer.

Second that. This really does restore faith that not everyone out there is only trying to sell known defective items without full disclosure.

You would expect a major play like rails would have known initially, but at least the right thing has now been done. Good on them.

[Tim Hall]

Or this seller wanting £160 for a weathered 31270 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professionally-weathered-Hornby-class-31-31270-BR-Blue-livery-DCC-Ready/323037245491?hash=item4b36853033:g:zjcAAOSwZrhabkN8 which, anyone whos been around the hobby, will know will either:

 

A   -   Have a broken chassis under the body (small signs of cracking on body shell corners already) and will fall to bits the first time you take the body off.

B   -   Chassis will break in relatively short order.

 

I mean if your that accomplished to weather it you'll know . . . .wont you?

 

Not seen a 31 270 that hasn't rotted yet.

 

M

 

They are factory weathered. So not necessarily. Yes, I think they are pretty much all rotters.

[37114]

I started work on my second Hornby/Lima hybrid today. I am integrating the Hornby mech into the Lima chassis. I will post more photos on my layout thread but the photos below show how brittle the chassis become:

 

The raw materials: This 31270 was one of the worst I have seen as there was evidence of cracking through out the block:

 

On removing the motor from the block (with minimal force) this happened:

 

 

This doesn't bode well for my original hybrid which utilises the Hornby centre section of the chassis. At some "sooner rather than later" time this will need to be replaced I

[Grizz]

Ah Saturday.....after a totally hectic and pretty unpleasant week I thought I'd have a 1970s classic running day on my layout. Planning it over some Harveys Old Ale last night I decided to run a rail tour with a Blue/ Grey rake of mk1s with double headed 31s to power it. I swapped over the more modern stock to 1970/80s stuff to suit the era

 

Well that's now gone right of of the window as I've just found that all four of my Hornby 31s have chassis expansion / crumble and resultant body splitting.

 

They have been stored away in a cupboard in our house for the last few years, in all the original packaging, along with a load of other models. 1 x 31110, 3 x 31270.

 

I am gutted. They were all ok when I bought them and all ran well straight out of the box. What makes it worse is I can't find the receipts.

 

Searching the internet I've come across several articles about Hornby replacing or offering a payment for this type of issue.

 

Is it possible that Hornby is still doing this? Does anyone know if this is the case or has anyone first hand experience of getting some kind of compensation?

If so how easy was it and what happened?

 

Sorry if this has all already been covered but I need a fairly quick response.

 

What a waste of time and product.

[Black 5 Bear]

Hornby did replace affected chassis units up until recently for locos that could be repaired, even though they were well out of warranty.

They were also offering £100 vouchers against new items bought directly via Hornby direct.

To my knowledge this has now ended with a change of CEO and management team.

Personally I would contact them, you never know you might find someone with a sympathetic ear.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Black 5 Bear