Hornby corroded class 31 chassis

[Pint of Adnams]

Does any body know if Hornby are going to do a re-run of  R2420 Class 31 D5512 in BR Green, as I would like the one that I sent to them replaced sometime as it was on of my favourite locos.

 

The railroad model is not up to standard.

 

Terry.

There is a firm body of opinion (pun intended) that the Railroad body, the Lima mould updated, is more accurate than the 'full-fat' version but clearly the drive system in the latter is superior, but not necessarily by that much. All well discussed here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115213-Hornby-brush-type-2class-31-models-differences/

 

In consequence I bought a couple of brand new Railroad 'Dutch' liveried models at a much reduced price and will switch the bodies with a pair of Lima D5500 purchased off that well-known auction site. I'm doing it this way because it's simpler and cheaper than sourcing the complete drive unit and unpowered bogies as replacement to fit to the Lima chassis. The bodies are a straight swap.

 

A Lima D5500 can be readily renumbered to D5512 although the purist might take issue with the profile of the apron below the buffer beam on the Railroad model chassis.

 

In any event Hornby has included a Railroad plain green disc headcode version in the 2017 range which may suit:https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/Hornby-new-for-2017/new-for-2017-diesel-electric-locomotives/railroad-br-class-31-d5551-with-tts-sound.html

[Jamiel]

Does anyone know how much of the chassis is made of the contaminated mazak?

 

I have taken my two affected Class 31 apart, and the area that seems to be causing the problem would appear to be the sections I have numbered 1 in the photo below.

 

Is it just these areas, or is the whole of the chassis block made of the affected metal (shown as 2 above) and will it all continue to expand and degrade, breaking the body in the process.

There is a good drive mechanism in the main range Hornby 31, and if it is possible to still use that safely then I would like to keep that, and just saw off the ends and rebuild them myself. This would also allow for the gap between the buffer beam cowling to be sorted (in the same way George Dent did with the Railroad upgrade he has on his website).

Am I being overly hopeful and just need to start with a fresh chassis and bin all the Hornby chassis block?

 

Any thoughts?

Jamie

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Jamiel

[John Tomlinson]

From earlier comments on this thread, I understood that the mazak contamination was likely to spread across the whole chassis block, although the speed of that spreading can't be predicted..

 

This makes me wonder about the "keeper plates" referred to by RobD2 (#798) above, exactly what these do and how durable they will be over the longer term.

 

My wife's Triang B12, now into its second half-century and still going like a bomb, I think is unlikely to be matched in longevity by any current offerings!

 

John.

Edited February 26, 2017 by John Tomlinson

[rob D2]

The keeper plates - that was the best description I could think of....lie over the two ends of the 50 and are flush with the actual chassis. They appear to be made of rather thin mazak.

 

When my 31 destroyed itself , it was basically a failure of the very thin mazak that kept the ends to the main chassis. That was 31110.

 

The BR blue one that fell apart , it was a more obvious swelling as the first sign was the corners breaking of the plastic body.

[Jamiel]

Thanks John and Rob.

I had found the same that the thin ends were decaying and expanding cracking the side of the cab. I am tempted to do a short term fix of rebuilding the ends, but keep an eye on further expansion of the body.

 

I have a Lima chassis that I could use, but I think transferring all the electronic and moving parts would take a lot of time and work that I would rather put into another loco.

Jamie

[Ed-farms]

Looks like this problem still exists and shops are happy to exploit.

http://www.hattons.co.uk/262503/Hornby_R2420_SD_Class_31_D5512_in_BR_green_Pre_owned_forward_lights_only_work_in_one_direction/StockDetail.aspx

 

Can't imagine I would be too happy at paying £68 for a model that could arrive with a cracked body, already got a couple of chips and they say the ligths don't work.

[Pint of Adnams]

Looks like this problem still exists and shops are happy to exploit.

http://www.hattons.co.uk/262503/Hornby_R2420_SD_Class_31_D5512_in_BR_green_Pre_owned_forward_lights_only_work_in_one_direction/StockDetail.aspx

 

Can't imagine I would be too happy at paying £68 for a model that could arrive with a cracked body, already got a couple of chips and they say the ligths don't work.

You should correct this - Hatton's retains listings for archive research purposes but it very clearly states that this one - a pre-owned model - is NOT IN STOCK but SOLD OUT. In any case it's been mentioned before when the model was first listed and there was forum discussion concerning it then.

[John Tomlinson]

The "surviving" bits from decayed 31's do appear on ebay from time to time and go for around £35. By "surviving" I mean motor, both bogies with gear towers, also connecting shafts that rotate and the PCB board.

 

Clever people (not me) on here have used these to build their own chassis using plasticard and these components, which appears the safest way to ensure longevity.

 

I have a set of these bits in my "one day" drawer, that I hope to use as the mechanism in a Dapol prototype Deltic, the wheelbase on a 31 being very close to that loco.

 

John.

Edited March 4, 2017 by John Tomlinson

[Classsix T]

.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Classsix T

[GordonC]

Hold yer horses pal, YOUR use of the word "could" is misleading in what Hattons have explained, and they've been upfront before on obviously rotten chassis models. So let's be right here!

 

Seems to me you're too quick to look at the blurb but not read it.

 

C6T.

 

and which bit of the blurb is meant to be read? for the model advertised, which is quite clearly showing signs of Mazak rot in the picture, there is no mention of that in the blurb. I wouldn't be happy paying £68 for something which is going to self-destruct over time.

 

The item in question is of course for a second-hand model and shows a previously sold one. But would a new one coming in to the shop necessarily get re-photographed or the description changed, its hard to tell.

[Ed-farms]

You should correct this - Hatton's retains listings for archive research purposes but it very clearly states that this one - a pre-owned model - is NOT IN STOCK but SOLD OUT. In any case it's been mentioned before when the model was first listed and there was forum discussion concerning it then.

 

Actually when I posted my message the model was in stock, uploaded on the 4th March it has since sold

[brushman47544]

The item in question is of course for a second-hand model and shows a previously sold one. But would a new one coming in to the shop necessarily get re-photographed or the description changed, its hard to tell.

 

I'm sure Hatton's photograph each second hand model individually. When I was looking for something else, there were often 3 or 4 of the same model for sale second hand and the photos of each were different. Doing anything else would be misrepresentation.

[Georgeconna]

Posed my 31 back to Hornby for Review last week.  The Two ends of the Chassis just fell off due to this rot and the front plastic end are craked along with the body attachment screw points. Hornby Emailed today saying no spare chassis available and they will post back the unusable loco to me. Great news indeed considering the cost of these locos at the time.

 

A plastic chassis might be my only option now. Let hope my other stuff wont be affect like this rendering it to Worthless.

[SHerr]

I presume from your comment that Hornby are no longer offering a voucher in lieu of a replacement chassis as was previously the case?

 

I've just unboxed my weathered 31270 that's been stored up for 2 years to sell on as now modelling different area and found both chassis fronts fell out.

[Melly]

At the time I interpreted the situation as Hornby saying "There's a problem, we've produced extra with a production run (The regional and network rail ones) and speak up now or loose out!"  The loco's affected were known (31110, 270 and a green one).  Sorry if you missed out.  

[sb67]

I've been speaking to Hornby about a bent chassis on my Class 31 and a class 56 that has siezed, the chassis looks ok on the 56 so I cant confirm if it's Mazak related. They told me nothing can be done about the 31 as there's no spares and offered to service the 56 but i'd have to pay as it was out of warranty.

I do have a weathered 31 270 but it seems fine at the moment.

Steve

Edited May 30, 2017 by sb67

[lochlongside]

I presume from your comment that Hornby are no longer offering a voucher in lieu of a replacement chassis as was previously the case?

 

I've just unboxed my weathered 31270 that's been stored up for 2 years to sell on as now modelling different area and found both chassis fronts fell out.

 

I would not hold your breath !! - I thought I had got away with the mazak problem on my 2nd 31 ( Hornby v kindly repaired no 1 for free way back when) but had to go back to Hornby in October 2016 with a similar problem with my green 31.

I was extremely polite and given the time lapse I actually offered to pay for a new chassis parts for my 2nd rotten (and No I didn't say that to them! ) Class  31 - I even enclosed a copy of the service sheet in question showing the parts required only to be advised That ....

 

Dear  xxxxn,

 

Thank you for your email, we have no stock left of the replacement parts and are now unable to fix these loco's any more as the Scheme has also been closed due to the amount of time passed.

 

Kind Regards,

xxxxxxx -

Customer Care Advisor

 

It does raise the question of the value of producing a service sheet for a product with known long-term issues w/o spares to back it up but thats another subject !! -  I then considered a bodge job using either brass or plastikard and araldite/plastic padding as the motor/gears/electronics are just fine - but  as  I have several other faulty locos to repair all suffering from manufacturers' built-in obsolescence I must admit that w/o readily available spares it has slipped way way down to the bottom of my to do list.

[jjb1970]

Long term through life support is possibly the most important downside of outsourcing manufacture to China. The days when suppliers kept a supply of spares and were able to support models for decades have gone and it is a loss for the hobby.

[TRAILRAGE]

Having had my both weathered blue 31 (Chassis replaced)  and Dutch 31110 fall apart (no chassis available and voucher offer ended about a month before) I now check my Hornby Loco's regulary.

My Weathered revised NSE 50002 has started showing signs on the Coupling Camplate cover and my weathered 9f Chassis going banana shaped and seizing up, I'm now getting worried about how long before the rest of my Hornby Loco fleet succumb. I'm not sure I will ever by another Hornby Loco again due to this as its completely knocked any confidence I had out the window.

 

I'm also no longer in a position where I have disposable income to replace such things this is no longer an option.

 

I understand all to well about how Warranties work as its something I deal with regular in my Job in the Cycle trade. Several years ago a very large well known and respected Manufacturer discovered an issue with with a set of forks they produced on a range of bikes over the last 15 + years and ended up replacing them for free even on second hand models on several thousand bikes sold around the world.  No argument about not having enough spares as they made  sure they manufactured plenty to cover this issue. With a retail of around £900 upwards for the fork you can just imagine the cost of this to he company itself. Several hundred thousand pounds. There was no silence no sorry its out of Warranty and was dealt with incredibly fast with a turnaround of no longer then 5 days for each bike effected that was sent to the distributer. Bering in mind there workshop staff level of 5 or so people.  They are still covering this now if someone discovers they have an affected fork. 

You could ague that this is slightly more important although the possible failiure wasn't life threatening but I'm just using it as an example of how things can be done.

 

Hopefully Hornby have found the cause of such an issue and changed supplier id the quality is sustandard as some peoples investment in this hobby is substantial.

 

Heres hoping Trailrage  

[jjb1970]

In fairness to Hornby, their voucher offer for models several years out of warranty was better than many other model train suppliers offered to customers with models afflicted by Mazak rot.

[pharrc20]

I now have five cracked bodies/split chassis' -  4 x 31270 blue plus 1 x 31110 'Dutch' having discovered the fifth last week whilst checking my remaining early Hornby 31s. So five duffers hmmm.

 

Paul

[Andrew P]

It could do with an Entrepreneur to do replacement chassis at a reasonable price. 

[Roy Langridge]

In fairness to Hornby, their voucher offer for models several years out of warranty was better than many other model train suppliers offered to customers with models afflicted by Mazak rot.

But don't forget a warranty is in addition to your statutory rights which mean such manufacturing faults should be covered for six years under the sale of goods act (given these pre-date 1/10/15).

 

Edit: so still out of date for obligatory replacement.

 

Roy

Edited May 30, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[Jenny Emily]

Is there not some recourse for faults that are clear manufacturing faults which would have been present at the time of manufacture and not related to wear and tear? I'm sure one of the several solicitors and barristers on here could add to that. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I don't believe a claim on what is legally a toy, would be accepted at this distance in time from manufacture.

 

 

From earlier comments on this thread, I understood that the mazak contamination was likely to spread across the whole chassis block, although the speed of that spreading can't be predicted...

 It may be helpful to summarise. The contamination which causes 'mazak rot' or 'zinc pest' is usually lead having got into the alloy melt from which the item was cast, and will be present throughout ay casting showing evidence of the problem, and can be expected to affect the entire batch of castings made from that melt. Failure progresses and is not rectifiable, but avoidance of damp and low temperatures do slow its progress.

 

Practical: liking the Hornby drive in this model, but not the bodyshape I have purchased three 'rotters' cheaply for the mechanisms, and installed them in earlier body shells. The chassis had all lost the thin sections at the ends under the cabs, but the central blocks with all the drive line components on it were fine. And they are still all fine as far as drive functionality is concerned: one is now showing crazing of the paint in the thin sections in the middle where the motor is clamped in place.