RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hi all Apart from Dai Woodham's yard, were there any others where steam locos awaiting cutting hung around for any length of time? Also did any/many locos escape from such scrapyards? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hi Keith, In answer to the first part of your question: not BR locos. Yes to industrials - if memory serves, some locos survived years, often buried in piles of scrap, although more often they were dumped in the yard of their owners. Second part, the only one I know of for definite is Black 5, 5305, which was saved from his own scrapyard in Hull by A.E. Draper. There may be others, but of the top of my head I don't know of any. david Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Ex-GW 64xx panniers 6430 and 6435 are probably the only known engines to have made it out of Cashmore's. Generally speaking, when scrap merchants bid for withdrawn steam engines, these were sold on to them by BR on strict conditions, including a prohibition on selling them on to private buyers, including preservation groups. Once they made the journey to the scrapyards, there really was no going back for the vast majority. Woodham's was the exception, and that only because of the Great Western Society's bid for 43xx no. 5322 - the last surviving Churchward 2-6-0. It seems an appeal was made to BR to release Woodham's from the obligation to scrap the engine. Being successful, it set a precedent for the other 200+ to be saved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 There are still 4 ex NCB 'Pugs' sitting in a scrapyard in Kirkcaldy where they've been since withdrawal by the NCB in the 1970s.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 There are still 4 ex NCB 'Pugs' sitting in a scrapyard in Kirkcaldy where they've been since withdrawal by the NCB in the 1970s.... I've just done a Google Maps aerial search, and can't see anything resembling a steam engine in the four main scrapyards in Kirkcaldy...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Apparently they're supposed to be in Thomas Muir (Haulage) Ltd. in Den Road. There's a photo from 2004 at http://www.flickr.co...r63/3634471534/ and another http://www.flickr.co...duncan/4750498/, although you're right - nothing is visible on Google Earth - maybe they've finally gone. No, I take that back ... I was looking in the wrong place. Google Earth, the very end of Den Road, they're visible on Streetview: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=den+road,+kirkcaldy&hl=en&ll=56.119523,-3.15659&spn=0.002395,0.006968&sll=56.119159,-3.154235&sspn=0.005467,0.014591&om=1&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=56.119572,-3.156465&panoid=AD1AV1WYb1y0fvfS9XPFzA&cbp=12,5.33,,0,15.87 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pobrien Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Buttigiegs yard at Newport sometimes kept engines for 3 or more months on a spur line next to their main cutting up yard. This picture of 84005/6 shows the line where engines were stored while newer arrivals were cut up more quickly http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/5795949811/in/set-72157625776010012 On a visit to Troon Scrapyard in Scotland on Sept 4, 1966, 42148 was present among others, withdrawn in Dec 1964. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 68095, now preserved at Bo'ness, was rescued from the scrapyard of J. McWilliam & Sons in Shettleston. I saw it there in August 1966. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I've just done a Google Maps aerial search, and can't see anything resembling a steam engine in the four main scrapyards in Kirkcaldy...... As DavidH has mentioned, I can confirm they are still in situ as they are visible from the line to the North of Kirkcaldy station - I last passed them about a fortnight ago. They can be found on Google Earth here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=56.119647,-3.156574&hl=en&ll=56.119633,-3.15659&spn=0.000725,0.002642&sll=56.119695,-3.15666&sspn=0.000725,0.002642&num=1&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=19 All 4 are in the corner against the exterior wall and building, 3 facing in a NE/SW direction and the other (closest the building) perpendicular to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Parts of some locos did escape the torch- the tenders from the Bulleid Pacifics cut up at Bynea were sold to Llanelly Steel (later Duport's),where the bodies were removed and the underframes used as ingot-carriers; this would have been in 1966, IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 68095, now preserved at Bo'ness, was rescued from the scrapyard of J. McWilliam & Sons in Shettleston. I saw it there in August 1966. I thought it was bought straight out of traffic? For the OP, if you look further back in time, many locos were stored, sometimes for years, at sheds and works - and a fair few were repaired and reinstated in the Second World War. Light railways like the K&ESR had a scrap line of locos that had been taken out of service and dumped, pending a repair that never happened - the price of scrap then often wasn't worth the bother of cutting them up or sending them away, I believe. But post-war, and into the 1960s anyway, with BR locos, most were cut up quite quickly, only Woodham stored lots of locos for any length of time (measured as a decade or more rather than a few months or years) while cutting up wagons instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 As DavidH has mentioned, I can confirm they are still in situ as they are visible from the line to the North of Kirkcaldy station - I last passed them about a fortnight ago. They can be found on Google Earth here: http://maps.google.c...=h&vpsrc=6&z=19 All 4 are in the corner against the exterior wall and building, 3 facing in a NE/SW direction and the other (closest the building) perpendicular to them. Toggle into Streetview and you can look at the locomotives over the wall. They look in reasonable condition, is no-one looking for small tank locomotives to run on their preserved stumps anymore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 17, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2011 Thanks all. Some interesting replies there, but as I suspected little escaped the torch in the rush to modernise in the period from about 1960/2. I remembered wandering around the back of Derby works in the late fifties and there were parts and virtually complete locos awaiting cutting, some which had been long deleted from the current Ian Allan guides. This was before the modernisation plan really kicked in and scrapping was still being done locally. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 These engines are like buy it now on ebay, ie a lot more than the scrap value. I went up with a boilersmith a few years ago to have a look at these, they aren't too bad all things considered, we made a bid on the best one of a respectable amount of money and it was turned down and it was made clear that our bid was nowhere near what he wanted for it, which fell into the realms of silly money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2011 In Steam for scrap by Alan Earnshawthere are some pictures of, I believe, some Standard 5's that came from patricroft that weren't cut up until spring 1969. I've never seen any pictures of the major scrapyards with locos after that date. Certainly the last sheds in the North west were cleared out fairly soon after they closed with locos sent south in batches of ususally 3 or 4 at a time. Cashmore's cut most of theirs within days of receiving them. I believe there may have been some other survivals into 1969 at Great Bridge. There is at present a major drive to verify all such dates to update Peter Hands' series of books that gave such dates. New facts have emerged over the years and the Railway Magazine is involved in the project. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 .....There is at present a major drive to verify all such dates to update Peter Hands' series of books that gave such dates. New facts have emerged over the years and the Railway Magazine is involved in the project. Website here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 In Steam for scrap by Alan Earnshawthere are some pictures of, I believe, some Standard 5's that came from patricroft that weren't cut up until spring 1969. I've never seen any pictures of the major scrapyards with locos after that date. The aforementioned Albert Draper was cutting Black 5s and 8Fs from the NW into 1969, although I dont think it was as late as Spring. I think there is a publication that will give the date, I dont have it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Duke of Gloucester was rescued from Cashmore's (where cutting had already commenced) when the postman noticed it should have been delivered to Woodhams. Incidentally it's my understanding that whenever Dai Woodham sold a steam loco to a preservation society, he had to pay a surcharge to BR, the cost of which naturally was passed on to the preservation societies. It was only in the early 80s that he managed to convince BR to forego it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfy Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Ex-GW 64xx panniers 6430 and 6435 are probably the only known engines to have made it out of Cashmore's. Generally speaking, when scrap merchants bid for withdrawn steam engines, these were sold on to them by BR on strict conditions, including a prohibition on selling them on to private buyers, including preservation groups. Once they made the journey to the scrapyards, there really was no going back for the vast majority. Woodham's was the exception, and that only because of the Great Western Society's bid for 43xx no. 5322 - the last surviving Churchward 2-6-0. It seems an appeal was made to BR to release Woodham's from the obligation to scrap the engine. Being successful, it set a precedent for the other 200+ to be saved. Why did BR insist on that? Was i because they would charge more to sell to a preservation society/industrial user than to sell it for scrap and didn't want to be undercut by scrap yards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2011 Why did BR insist on that? Was i because they would charge more to sell to a preservation society/industrial user than to sell it for scrap and didn't want to be undercut by scrap yards? There were allegations at the time that BR wanted to stop locos being preserved for re-use but I'm sure the truth is rather nearer what you have suggested. All sales went on tender lists but the scrappies would bid basically on a 'per ton' basis taking a lot of stuff at once in many cases. The preservationists had a rather different approach because their interest was often in specfic items as opposed to 'X tons of scrap metal' and they intended to use those items and they weren't buying either in bulk or on a regular basis hence more admin and charges for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 9, 2011 Quite some time ago, I read that the radio telescope of the Merlin array radio telescope at Defford is mounted on a number of front bogies from withdrawn ex BR(W) Castle class locomotives. The place was being built during the early sixties and the telescope does sit on two sets of railway track laid down each side of the old airfield (90 feet apart) Of course it might just be one of those urban myths. Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 It isn't a myth; it was Jodrell Bank in Cheshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2011 It isn't a myth; it was Jodrell Bank in Cheshire I believe tnat they also used some parts of battleship turret training rings in the mechanism as well as the King george vth class were being scrapped at the time and the large diameter gear rings designed to swing turets that weighed several hundred tons were very useful. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Duke of Gloucester was rescued from Cashmore's (where cutting had already commenced) when the postman noticed it should have been delivered to Woodhams. Are you saying D o G went from Cashmore's to be preserved or transferred to Woodham's ? My understanding was that it was withdrawn '62 stored in Crewe works until '67 when the cylinders were removed. Moved to Crewe South shed then towed to Woodham's in October '67 then departed Woodham's April '74 for the GCR Also what cutting? When I saw it in Woodham's in '73 it was in the same condition as when I saw it in Crewe south before being towed away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 It isn't a myth; it was Jodrell Bank in Cheshire Completely off-topic but Jodrell Bank has another interesting railway connection. In the 1960s, the telescope started picking up radio frequency signals at particular times of day on a regular basis and were on the verge of announcing that they had discovered extra terrestrial life when somebody noticed that the timings coincided with the timetable for the nearby Manchester-Crewe railway line that had recently been electrified. Further investigation revealed the "radio signals" to be sparks off the pantographs! As JB is under threat of closure, I wonder what the chances are of say Didcot or Tyseley being able to claim the bogies back as spares? Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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