Hornby's Future Is Cheap Toys ...

[Andy Y]

 

Has anybody actually made them aware of this thread? What about writing to the Chief Executive and including the thread URL and a few tasty bits? It doesn't look like it could do any harm - after all, how could relations between Hornby and modellers get any worse? - and it might do some good. Doesn't seem like there's much point complaining here if they're not even reading (except of course that some of the points made are very good).

 

Hornby are aware of the topic.

[Marty Mc]

HI

 

Mods feel free to remove this if you feel its inappropriate, I am only posting this link to show that positive results can be achieved by talking to your customers as this well known train manufacturer did.

 

As Andy pointed out

 

Hornby are aware of the topic.

 

but they may not be aware of the positive results achieved here with a win for everyone. Just by asking how much time have they saved and something as simple as "help" can keep the production schedule on track.

 

http://www.rmweb.co....-colour-scheme/

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Andy Y]

Bachmann have the split chassis locos and as long as they are selling they can concentrate on swimming in unchartered territory by giving us new models.

 

Dennis Lovett has confirmed to me the approach to balanced upgrading and new releases.

 

Bachmann have said on numerous occasions that we are moving towards 100% DCC compatibility. However, this takes time and it is sometimes worth recalling that until publication of the 2005 Bachmann catalogue, DCC was not offered by any manufacturer of British outline models. We have all come a long way in such a short space of time.

 

Over the past six years we have seen all new OO locomotives introduced with decoder sockets and a considerable number or existing models converted to have them (DCC sockets). A quick calculation shows that some 75% of the current Bachmann range has DCC socket provision.

 

As a manufacturer we have to strike a balance to ensure that we upgrade further models but continue to introduce new ones as well. Tool room and production capacity is exactly the same for a chassis upgrade as it is to produce a brand new chassis for a new locomotive. Replacing the chassis of the B1, A4 and V2 started long before we announced it last March. The work continues as the first of the B1’s is in the process of being released to retailers and the first of the new chassis A4’s are now in the hands of magazine reviewers. Development work and testing of the new chassis for the V2 has also been completed and these will be available in 2012.

 

It is our intention over the next few years to see split chassis types replaced and the work continues. It has never been our intention to sit back and ignore developments in the DCC market and customer expectations for DCC socket provision but clearly we are never going to get to 100% compatibility overnight.

 

We could of course concentrate purely on upgrades to the remaining 25% and not produce new items for the next couple of years but clearly that it is not going to happen.

 

Over the past couple of years we have upgraded the LMS ‘Jinty’ 3F 0-6-0T, GWR Collett 2251 Class 0-6-0, SR N Class 2-6-0, LNER B1 4-6-0, LNER A4 4-6-2 and LNER V2 2-6-2 to DCC sockets and where split chassis were previously used we have replaced them.

 

In the March press release issued at the time of the publication of our 2011/12 catalogue our Managing Director, Graham Hubbard said “we are gradually moving towards 100% total DCC compatibility and this year will see the process extended to cover three popular LNER types for future releases. We understand that customers demand this facility now and we have an on-going process to convert the remaining locomotives over the next few years. We now have some 75% of the OO Branchline range DCC compliant and we have come a very long way since we introduced DCC options to British modellers back in 2005. Please be patient with us as we complete this task over the next few years”.

 

 

Dennis Lovett

Public Relations Manager

Bachmann Europe Plc

[neal]

The 8750 Pannier chassis was also upgraded to DCC ready, plus the Warship (although these were never split chassis models).

 

I would imagine the 04 will get the new 03 chassis next year if there is demand.

 

N

[JohnR]

That of course is a very sensible policy, Andy, and its great that Bachmann have highlighted that to us in advance. However, I cant help but think it might have been better if they had added "And we aim to complete this process of converting all existing models to DCC ready by 201X".

[Taz]

The problem is that then leaves them open to criticism if any unforseen circumstances lead to failing to hit that target by the stated date.

 

Much more sensible to state the intention and let their progress to date be the yard stick they are measured by.

[Mighty]

I think it's very good of Mr Lovett to be prepared to update Andy and just goes to show what good public relations can do, especially being prepared to work with new media (such as RMWeb).

 

Hornby could take a leaf out of Bachmann's book here...

[JohnR]

The problem is that then leaves them open to criticism if any unforseen circumstances lead to failing to hit that target by the stated date.

 

Much more sensible to state the intention and let their progress to date be the yard stick they are measured by.

 

Would it really be any worse than the stick they get now for slippage of models? By giving themselves say a 5- 7 year time frame, with no specifics on which model would appear when, it would at least close down the topic a bit more.

[Catkins]

Having read some of the postings on this page, it seems that at some level or other there is an interest from the manufacturers in what we the customers have to say, and I can see that some of their reactions are driven by company/group/board policy, and it all goes back to the board and how they view the company history and future.

With Bachmann their history is in the model railway market - give or take 175 years, with the Hornby Group they have no direct history before the mid-late 1960s, the current Hornby railways can be traced back to Tri-Ang, Rovrex, and the Lines Brothers, the Hornby name has been purchased from the death of the Meccano business from Liverpool, but the business that brought it recognised the brand value.

The future of the Hornby Group is financially led, which can be seen if you look at the olympics products that are being produced under the Corgi Toys label, with the result that the staff are being demoralised, which inturn leads to a loss of interest and a lack of engagement - I will now stand here and defend Simon Kohler, by stating that I have actually met him near the close of a saturday exhibition, and I could see some profesionalism and interest was there when I spoke to him, and he couldn't be more than helpful if he had tried.

The future for Bachmann seems to be a reduction of range coverage, coupled with growing partnerships with retailers/commissioners and steady improvements in the older models.

As for the duplications of ranges, there will be issues of research, product development, tooling design and manufacture, pre-production modelling, and then prototyping before a model will be announced, as has been proven with both Blue Pullmans announced earlier this year, Bachmann's model is going ahead because they were further advanced along the development route then the retailer, who happened to announce their model first - there by forcing Bachmann to make their announcement. The same can be said of the 4MT, or any other models that have been duplicated recently - IMHO, Hornby would have looked at the marketplace three years ago, and seen the old Mainline 4MT, and thought that they could do a new one for the 21st Century.

 

The only way that you can stop the duplications from Hornby and Bachmann is to get them to publicly agree that one company does steam and one does diesel & electric eras only, but that ain't gonna happen!

The only way that the Hornby name will survive untarnished from the current CEO's actions is if the group changes its name, and brands the model railway side as Hornby.

[S.A.C Martin]

 

Would it really be any worse than the stick they get now for slippage of models? By giving themselves say a 5- 7 year time frame, with no specifics on which model would appear when, it would at least close down the topic a bit more.

 

There's no way Bachmann get as much stick for slippage of models as Hornby do. Cards on the table - for the last five years, if not longer, Hornby have done the whole "Q1 2010, Q2, etc etc" and I am yet to find a model which actually hits that quarter from them. They are always late, or in the surprise case of the B1, it seems, pushed out earlier than models which had earlier release dates!

 

The ambiguity of the Bachmann announcements and the honest, open discussions DapolDave has had on this forum are far better than a Xmas day round of announcing quarters for models to appear in such and such quarter only for people to be anxiously awaiting a product which won't appear.

 

And yet the Gresley Subs have appeared on time and to an excellent spec. So what do I know!

[Ron Ron Ron]

Dennis Lovett has confirmed my own fuzzy recollection, that Bachmann announced its intention to embark on a process of upgrading its split-chassis locos, a while before Hornby's announcement of a new B1.

 

There was mention earlier of Bachmann's various long lasting lines of quality wagons. Bread and butter etc.

No one has mentioned that in recent years, they have gone through a process of fitting many of these wagons with upgraded and more detailed chassis. One or two have even been re-tooled.

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.......though I had a pleasant exchange with Simon Kohler from Hornby.

...... I will now stand here and defend Simon Kohler, by stating that I have actually met him near the close of a saturday exhibition, and I could see some profesionalism and interest was there when I spoke to him, and he couldn't be more than helpful if he had tried......

At great risk of sounding rather cynical, isn't that his job?

As the PR man (as well as sales), he's paid to smile, agree and empathise with the customer.

I'm sure he's a nice guy (I've also spoke to him on one occasion), but he's only there for professional reasons.

 

.

[S.A.C Martin]

At great risk of sounding rather cynical, isn't that his job?

As the PR man (as well as sales), he's paid to smile, agree and empathise with the customer.

I'm sure he's a nice guy (I've also spoke to him on one occasion), but he's only there for professional reasons.

 

.

 

Absolutely Ron, but, speaking for myself, I like to think the best of people.

[7013]

Yes that is Simon Kohlers job, however having spoken to him at exhibitions and on the phone on several occasions over the last few years I have always found him to be very enthusisastic and knowledgable about the hobby and most things model railway, he is a person who happens to have a job that he likes.

[Dave777]

...with the result that the staff are being demoralised, which inturn leads to a loss of interest and a lack of engagement

 

Rare for me to comment on a thread that's gone beyond page 2, but I have to ask - where did the 'demoralised staff' info come from? Not 'the result may be demoralised staff', not 'I suspect it could end up with demoralised staff', it is a definite 'the staff are being demoralised'.

 

I thought the Ford Edsel being 'a warning from history' for Hornby was stretching things a bit, but are we not now truly getting into the realms of utter speculation?

 

[Catkins]

Dave 777, I don't know what industry you are in, and if you are an employee or self-employed, but the fact of the matter is when a business doesn't have a clear, or consistant business path, or managers that KNOW the business, then the staff don't know which way the business is heading, and they start to ask themselves questions, and that does lead to them becoming demoralised, even if it is only temporarily.

I know the effect that low moral can have on people and businesses - I've seen it in my previous job.

 

EDIT - But I do concede that I am commenting through jaundiced tinted glasses, and I am always happy (begging) to be proven wrong.

I am willing to go into employee mentality and productivity, but in a PM as I fear we might be going off topic now.

[Catkins]

At great risk of sounding rather cynical, isn't that his job?

As the PR man (as well as sales), he's paid to smile, agree and empathise with the customer.

I'm sure he's a nice guy (I've also spoke to him on one occasion), but he's only there for professional reasons.

 

I make no bones about defending Simon, I didn't see anything remotely operational railway-wise From Bachmann at the Peterborough show, and the Farish / Bachmann stand wasn't even manned when I approached it.

[The Stationmaster]

Dave 777, I don't know what industry you are in, and if you are an employee or self-employed, but the fact of the matter is when a business doesn't have a clear, or consistant business path, or managers that KNOW the business, then the staff don't know which way the business is heading, and they start to ask themselves questions, and that does lead to them becoming demoralised, even if it is only temporarily.

I know the effect that low moral can have on people and businesses - I've seen it in my previous job.

 

EDIT - But I do concede that I am commenting through jaundiced tinted glasses, and I am always happy (begging) to be proven wrong.

I am willing to go into employee mentality and productivity, but in a PM as I fear we might be going off topic now.

Quite agree, but surely Hornby Group has a clear path which has been spelt out this year by the two men at the top of the company. Many of us see what has been said as worrying from the model railway angle because in our case there does seem to be either a shift underway or there is inconsistency in the company's message which is coming at the same time as a number of inconsistencies - or certainly what we perceive as inconsistencies - in Hornby's model railway marketing and quality.

 

Perhaps. or perhaps not, what we perceive as a mixed message might also be seen by some within the company as a mixed or confusing message but there has been nothing at all in the public domain (as far as I'm aware) to suggest that is the case and we haven't got the first idea about morale within the company.

[Ozexpatriate]

.... there has been nothing at all in the public domain (as far as I'm aware) to suggest that is the case and we haven't got the first idea about morale within the company.

Absolutely! In fact they trotted out the corporate video on youtube* full of happy smiling faces in response to the original Telegraph article.

 

The future of the Hornby Group is financially led, ... with the result that the staff are being demoralised, which inturn leads to a loss of interest and a lack of engagement.

...

The only way that the Hornby name will survive untarnished from the current CEO's actions is if the group changes its name, and brands the model railway side as Hornby.

A company that is traded on the stock exchange (such as Hornby PLC, LSE: HRN.L) should be financially led. Anything else would be gravely irresponsible to their share holders. A well-performing, financially led company can be an exciting and fun place to work and Hornby continues to be profitable.

 

As this thread amply illustrates, we as Hornby customers who enjoy high-specification railway models have concerns about Hornby's executive messaging and direction. That doesn't imply anything about the staff and the British image model railway side of their business is branded as "Hornby Model Railways".

 

* Curiously the video is now locked on youtube as "private".

[Dave777]

Dave 777, I don't know what industry you are in, and if you are an employee or self-employed, but the fact of the matter is when a business doesn't have a clear, or consistant business path, or managers that KNOW the business, then the staff don't know which way the business is heading, and they start to ask themselves questions, and that does lead to them becoming demoralised, even if it is only temporarily.

I know the effect that low moral can have on people and businesses - I've seen it in my previous job.

 

As the previous two replies discussed (thanks chaps), the issue is not the effect on staff of a company's performance, the point I made is that you said a definitive 'Hornby staff are demoralised'. Too put it more bluntly, where did you get this information from?

 

I've pretty much stayed out of this because Rules 1 and 3 applied, but bearing in mind that Andy has now said that Hornby are aware of this thread, is it time to stick to the specifics of customer feedback of what we like and dislike and leave some of the more peripheral comments outside? (even though at post 736 we're a bit late in the day). You said in another post that you thought Simon Kohler was a decent chap, so bearing that in mind would you stand in front of him and tell him to his face that his staff are demoralised? Apart from the accuracy of the comment, it's probably not a great way to get him on side to then listen to any other suggestions and requests that we also wanted to make.

 

As I see it, this whole 'working with the manufacturers' aspect works both ways. It's not just about Hornby coming on here and having to take whatever comments we throw at them - we need to provide quality feedback to make it worth their while. Unqualified statements about areas where we have no proof tends to dilute some of the more cohesive comments around pricing confusion and our desire to see the company continue to provide quality contributions to the hobby.

[Gulliver]

Absolutely! In fact they trotted out the corporate video on youtube* full of happy smiling faces in response to the original Telegraph article.

 

* Curiously the video is now locked on youtube as "private".

 

Perhaps this happened when they realised they had made such a video and totally failed to mention customers once in the entire thing!

[Bernard Lamb]

Are Hornby a cheap toy company or the brand leader in the model railway field?

At the moment they seem to be dithering between the two.

The overheads needed for one are not conducive to the cost base of the other.

My experience is that when a brand leader moves away from a policy of continuous improvement it starts to go down an ever steepening slope heading for oblivion.

Bernard

[coachmann]

Have any images of Hornby's new B17 been posted anywhere as yet. I ask because if they haven't then we don't know if the model wlll be a super-duper loco like the L1 tank or if the company has pulled the plug and is instead upgrading the old B17 as a Railroad Ranger. It could be a useful pointer..

[S.A.C Martin]

Have any images of Hornby's new B17 been posted anywhere as yet. I ask because if they haven't then we don't know if the model wlll be a super-duper loco like the L1 tank or if the company has pulled the plug and is instead upgrading the old B17 as a Railroad Ranger. It could be a useful pointer..

 

Tonnes of pre-production models have been seen in all the liveries. It looks as if it was ready to roll, this time last year. That it still has not made it to market, but the B1 will jump the queue ahead of it, is remarkable.

[7013]

On MREmag Pat Hammond alludes to the fact that the chosen ones will be attending the Hornby briefing shortly which will set out plans for 2012. As usual there will be an embargo on news of releases before 25,12,11 (Which will inevitably be broken..sorry my cynical side). However would it be breaking any embargoes to let us know if our worries about Hornby going down the cheapo route are founded or unfounded? All it requires is someone in the know to post founded or unfounded then we can either plumb the depths of despair about Hornby or froth by the gallon.