GWR wagon : the worst kit I have ever tried to build.

[brian777999]

I have built about 40 X 4mm wagons over the last 18 months, including Parkside Dundas, Coopercraft, Cambrian , Chivers and Slaters. Most of them have the same method of construction : The body is put together first and then the solebars are attached. I usually fit the wheels at the same time as attaching the solebars so as to ensure correct spacing between the axle boxes.

 

But this week I have built some Ratio GWR kits, the brake van and the 5 plank wagon. These wagons are moulded quite differently in that the solebar is attached to the side of the wagon in one piece. This did not seem to be a problem with the brake van but with the 5 plank wagon it has been a disaster. The distance between the solebars/axle boxes was too wide to hold the wheels properley ( Alan Gibson spoked wheels are supplied) so I had to file the sides of the floor to bring things closer together. This made the ends of the wagon too wide so they had to be heavily filed down as well. I thought I eventually had the whole thing together but now I see that the axles are not at 90 degrees to the sides even though the ends were square with the sides ! All this because the solebars are not a separate moulding so you cannot control the exact position and make minute adjustments.

 

Has anybody put together any of the other Ratio GWR wagons ? I was thinking of getting the Mogo van, the 12 ton box van and the Iron Mink but not if they have the solebars attached to the sides in one piece as per their 5 plank wagon. Why would they even make it like this ?

 

https://vault1.secured-url.com/model/acatalog/Wagonsratiooogauge.html

 

I have never failed to complete a kit but I think this one might have me beat. It looked so simple too !

[craigwelsh]

The 12ton van uses the same system and causes no issues.

 

Personally though i've been filing back the solebar & w-iron to fit springing units on the later ones i've built.

 

These are some of the best kits GW modellers have tbh and i've never found the floor/solebar thing much of a problem although I would have preferred full height solebars instead. They are also very old now!

[Miss Prism]

A good rant, Brian! Integral side and solebar mouldings are indeed a bit crazy. It is possible in the 5-plank open to split (piercing saw) the side from the solebar, but that will mean destroying and having to replace the solebar to body gussets later. The split can't be done on the Iron Mink because of the narrower body width. (The brake van has solebars separate from the body.) I fit W-irons to mine, so the problems you had don't arise, but I make sure there is enough room between solebars for rocking or sprung irons to go in - 25.4mm clear is usually about right for rocking irons, a bit less than 25mm for sprung ones. This clearance distance usually requires filing a recess in the rear of the solebar where the W-iron is, and I seem to remember the solebar on the Ratio open got very thin to give the required clearance. Floor heights need watching if using rocking irons.

 

Even if I was in OO gauge I would fit separate W-irons because of the constructional conundrum you describe.

[cctransuk]

 

 

The distance between the solebars/axle boxes was too wide to hold the wheels properley ( Alan Gibson spoked wheels are supplied) so I had to file the sides of the floor to bring things closer together.

That is a quite common problem - the other common one is that they are too close together.

It all depends whose wheels you are using - the axles vary in length over pin-points.

I assume that you are fitting brass pin-point bearings? (If not, you should).

All you have to do is drill the back of the axleboxes 2 mm. dia. to take the bearings. Drill them a bit at a time and trial fit the bearings; stop when the bearings are set just right for the axles which you are using.

Alternatively, if the axlebox bearing holes are already 2 mm. dia., space the brass bearings away from the axleguards with spacers drilled 2 mm. and cut from a suitable thickness of plastic card.

If the axleguards are too close together then, having drilled the holes 2 mm., countersink the holes so that the flange of the bearing is recessed into the axleguard.

Unless there is some dimensional discrepancy in the body, never start filing it to make the wheels fit.

Regards,
John Isherwood. Edited December 2, 2015 by cctransuk

[brian777999]

Yes, bearings were supplied with the kit and I fitted them as I have done with all the other wagons. Only this wagon has ever given me any problems.

 

I have now cut away the W irons with a scalpel. I will try to fit them so that the wheels are lined up correctly but I do not think this will work. I expect that the W irons will break when I try to re-fit the wheels. I have noticed that the Ratio plastic is quite brittle ; it does not have as much "give" as other plastic kits.

 

Yes, cutting and filing the body was the wrong thing to do. It seemed like a good idea at the time !

 

The brake van I have just built has the solebars moulded to the side of the floor. The floor is divided into two pieces and must be joined together. Another strange concept but at least it seemed to work.

[cctransuk]

Ratio kits have been around quite a while - they pre-date Parkside by many years. When first released they were state-of-the-art; the detail was / is finer than the the excellent Airfix wagon kits. With care, be made into very nice wagons.

 

Like the Airfix kits, they originally came with moulded plastic wheels which had long pin-points.

 

These are not missed at all and the Gibson wheels are far, far superior; the fact that you have to adjust the bearing positions to suit is a small price to pay.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Bernard Lamb]

I found the Iron Mink went together without problems but that was over 20 years ago. The tooling has probably become a bit worn since then. Another bodge is rather than use top hat bearings with spacers is to use the non flanged bearings. Sudden thought . I don't know if you can still easily get them. With a drop of solvent in the axle hole you can press them in to the required depth with an axle in place to set the correct dimension.

There is a lot to be said for having a long think about how you are going to assemble a kit before you actually start work on it. Compensation or springing is sometimes the best way out even if you do normally build 'em rigid. I would always use compensation on long wheelbase jobs like CCTs. Some people can get them to run perfectly built straight out of the packet. I find a standard method of attack for a particular style of wagon or kit saves a lot of frustration in the long run.

Bernard

[BWSR]

Indeed these kits have been around for a good while. I had a go at building a few and I nearly lost heart with kit building as I could not, however carefully I assembled them, get the sides square. Then someone pointed out that the floor was in fact a couple of centimetres wider than the ends!

 

Trimming the floor helped!

 

I am building the Ratio LMS 4 plank wagon at the moment and the floor in that is longer than the sides!

 

I suppose they just get the ratios wrong.

 

Cheers,

 

A fellow struggler,

 

Colin

[Ravenser]

The Mogo has seperate solebars. I think the same applies to the LMS van.

 

I've built the 5 plank GW and it went together ok . I can't remember what I did, so it can't have been too bad . But I did use Hornby wheels as Gibson wheels are arguably a little fine unless you build your track to EM flangeways

 

Hasving built the kit , my nomination for worst kit I've ever built isn't this one - the original unretooled Cambrian Walrus is ten lengths in front

[Tim V]

They came out in the mid 70s, and were very good. I have not had problems in fitting wheels in the Ratio W irons. What you have to watch out for is that the sides bow in, as I think the tapers on the corners are wrong. Leave them with a spacer across the middle to splay the sides out.

 

I could find some I built in '76 still running!

 

Wooden wagons, particularly 13T mins would splay out under the action of the load.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Why are there giant crushed shuttlecocks under your (admittedly very nice) wagon, Paul? ;-)

 

Dave.

[57xx]

Why are there giant crushed shuttlecocks under your (admittedly very nice) wagon, Paul? ;-)

You obviously didn't have a mis-spent youth playing with air guns.

[DLT]

That's in preparation to setting fire to it and then sending it down my mum's washing line ...

 

I thought they were giant Champagne corks......

[Tim V]

I thought they were woodlouse, but I didn't dare comment.....

[46444]

It's a funny one this.

 

Like the others I've built many kits in my time-mainly Parkside but have always found Ratio kits easier to build. I like the way the solebars join to the floor of these kits. Everything seems to sit square quite easily. Recently I built an LMS goods van with no problems at all. It runs superb, though I agree about the Gibson wheels being possibly too fine for standard Code 100 trackwork.

 

I've always found Parkside kits good to build, but sometimes depending on the kit there can be splaying on the W irons, having fixed the solebar as per instructions, which requires some adjustment.

 

Thanks, Mark

 

 

[Kits from Somerset]

The 17'6" Mink and Mogo have seperate solebar so can be adjusted if needed, the best way will be to put a set of etched w irons with the MJT ones sliding in with a perfert fit (others will most lickly fit but mine have got MJT fitted). I have converted some to 10' wheelbase using this methered.

 

PMP please brake shoes on the morton side only not on both sides. :icon_cry:

[brian777999]

I have tried to cut and remove the W irons but it has not worked. The wagon has a definite lean to it. Oh well, this one will have to be binned. Other people have built this wagon with no problems so I might give it another go and order another one. I wanted to build a rake of GWR coal wagons but the Coopercraft do not supply the swan neck lever in their kits so I was hoping this Ratio kit would suffice. I never expected this weird arrangement of the solebar being attached to the sides.

 

I will use the advice given here and have another go. I think it is a matter of adapting the way I usually build wagons. Normally, I attach the solebars at the same time as fitting the wheels. This way I can make adjustments to the spacing so that the wheels sit just right.

 

Yes, brake shoes on one side only...the same side as the Morton brake lever. They only give you one set of brake shoes so you cannot make the mistake of fitting brake shoes to both sides.

 

So the original kit came with plastic wheels and long pin points...that explains a lot.

[Miss Prism]

I wanted to build a rake of GWR coal wagons

The only thing carrying coal from Ratio or Coopercraft is the Coopercraft N13, and that was specifically for loco coal. You should be thinking private owner wagons for general coal.

[LaScala]

I'm pretty sure John Hayes has written several articles in MRJ where he carved off the integral solebars on several different GWR Ratio kits and replaced with the appropriate excellent Evergreen channel. He then used Masokits W irons (I think) and either ABS whitemetal or suitable etched brake gear to achieve finescale models. As the fold-up W irons set the distance between the back of the channels, there is no issue with length of axles.

 

You may ask why bother virtually scratchbuilding a chassis, but old as the mouldings are, they are still good and more than hold their own.

 

Just found the reference:- MRJ 124 Pge 23

[brian777999]

Okay, so no coal in these wagons. But I still need quite a few open wagons. I never thought they would give me so much trouble !

[craigwelsh]

Okay, so no coal in these wagons. But I still need quite a few open wagons. I never thought they would give me so much trouble !

Can't remember how early you are going but Parkside does an LNER 6-plank merchandise wagon and Cambrian does the LMS 1666 (over 54,000 of those!). You'll find the Cambrian one fun if you found Ratio tricky .

 

Coal should be in Felix Pole wagons (hard to find) or PO wagons (of which Parkside sell the best) mainly on the GW, the LMS and LNER though owned quite a few of their own RCH type minerals with t-section end stantions, you can also do some of these from the Parkside kit. I would say have a look at mine but then I never use the underpinnings..

[Ravenser]

Can't remember how early you are going but Parkside does an LNER 6-plank merchandise wagon and Cambrian does the LMS 1666 (over 54,000 of those!). You'll find the Cambrian one fun if you found Ratio tricky .

 

Coal should be in Felix Pole wagons (hard to find) or PO wagons (of which Parkside sell the best) mainly on the GW, the LMS and LNER though owned quite a few of their own RCH type minerals with t-section end stantions, you can also do some of these from the Parkside kit. I would say have a look at mine but then I never use the underpinnings..

 

Well: "Felix Pole" minerals (steel 21T wagons) were largely used for the S. Wales coal trade and therefore most never got further than the docks at Cardiff or Newport (their replacements, the MDVs, were often branded "Not to work outside S Wales and Monmouthshire") . Hornby do a 21 T steel mineral (ex Dapol) which is I think a pretty decent representation of an N32 , and their older 21T steel mineral - frequently found in secondhand trays - is based on the same wagon. With a new chassis (Parkside RCH 12' wb) you can upgrade the earlier Hornby wagon and repaint . I've done it twice. But at the current "market price" for such second hand wagons (about ??4) , plus wheels and new chassis , you're close to the price of the better ex Dapol model new

 

And the bulk of the mineral wagons clearly were wooden PO wagons. Quite possibly from Northern collieries - eg household coal for southern England from S. Yorks or notts pits via Annesley/Wath, the GC, Woodford Halse, and Banbury routing

 

The bulk of the LNER owned mineral fleet were 20T wooden hoppers, ex NER, and running in the North East. They didn't wander much

 

Invest in half a dozen of the Slaters 1905 RCH mineral kits : they're often available with pre-painted sides

 

Remember that after WW1 most wagons were "Common User" , so all companies' fleets mixed indiscriminately. That means the typical mix for vans and opens reflects the proportion of the national fleet from each Group - I think the figures were LMS 8: LNER 7 : GW 2 : SR 1 . In short , on the GW , most vans and opens would be LMS or LNER vehicles. There's a sardonic caption in the "Southern Wagons" book - "this photograph shows a common phenomenon - a Southern goods train without any Southern wagons in it" . Look at the national ratios and you realise why

 

I have a feeling the Parkside 5 plank LNER wagon is wartime build - as far as I know the pre war LNER 6 plank is only available from ABS as a whitemetal kit , and getting hold of ABS is not easy either. His stand at Warley is the best bet , which is no help if you live outside the UK. Parkside also do the ex LNER steel High - which dates from 1945

[cctransuk]

...and getting hold of ABS is not easy ...

 

Quote from the old Wrightlines site :-

 

"Adrian (Swain) at 39 Napier Road, Poole, BH15 4LX, Tel: 01202 672891 for ABS Models & Wrightlines MAIL ORDER and enquiries".

 

When I last spoke to Adrian, quite recently, he was offering a mail order service.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Kits from Somerset]

PO wagon kits are also produced by Slaters with the 4mm ones, currently marketed by C&L. These are mainly unlettered sides, with Dragon Models (email only) and Pow Sides doing lettered ones of these kits.

[brian777999]

I was speaking to ABS Models the other night. They do NOT take credit card orders. It has to be a cheque or bank draft and because I live in Australia it is not cost effective for me to do that. The bank would charge me 20 pounds for a bank draft.