Armaments Store (Shhhh!)

[Stubby47]

Mike,

The t/t on Laterite & Co uses a similar moveable magnet to uncouple the loco from the wagon, so I'm fairly sure that the same method used here with a standard coupling on the 'shunting arm' (ta) will work just as well. I may need to support said arm on the track within the bay, so, thinking ahead, it might well be a spare coach bogie that's used.

[Stubby47]

 

Hoist.

I could use ‘L’ angle brass, as before, which could then be braced – but would soldering the brass cause it to deform and lose its straightness ?

 

I happened to be in the local d-i-y store this lunch time and spotted two 1 m lengths of 10mm x 10mm x 1mm brass angle strip.

 

500mm of hoist should give me enough height for two 150mm underground levels and a decent height of headgear on the ground level.

[The Stationmaster]

Mike,

The t/t on Laterite & Co uses a similar moveable magnet to uncouple the loco from the wagon, so I'm fairly sure that the same method used here with a standard coupling on the 'shunting arm' (ta) will work just as well. I may need to support said arm on the track within the bay, so, thinking ahead, it might well be a spare coach bogie that's used.

Ah, method ok there then. I think the critical thing with the 'shunting arm' will be keeping it in line and at the correct height and the coach bogie idea strikes me as a neat solution to both of those.

[Sidecar Racer]

There are three main areas of mechanisation to consider with this project.

 

Hoist.

 

I also want to add a counter-weight, which will also need similar guidance consideration. The pit head will need to have some large pulley wheels and the winding house will need to have a slow controllable motor. I’m also considering using some sort of multi-pulley system to reduce the dead-weight lift.

 

 

 

Hi Stu ,

 

if you need a good motor you could have a look here , I have just built one into a loco turntable and

it provides a good controlable speed and seems pretty powerful , I used the 3000 to 1 ratio version,

running on a normal contriller it will run a half turn in about one minute at a low voltage setting but can

be wound up to go faster if needed .

 

http://www.mfacomodr...50d_series.html

 

Regards .

[Stubby47]

Mike,

Thanks for the link.

Wheal Tiny uses a small motor/gearbox from Precision Microdrives

https://catalog.precisionmicrodrives.com/order-parts/product/212-107-12mm-dc-gearmotor-24mm-type

It's proved perfectly adequate and able to lift the wagons with a good degree of control.

Stu

[Stubby47]

Sometimes modelling inspiration comes from the strangest places...

 

I was in the gym this morning, using the rowing machine, when it suddenly dawned on me a far simpler method of how to move the wagons into and out of the bay.

Using the idea of a spare bogie, as the method to connect to and move the wagon, to move the bogie itself all I need to do is use a loop of cord, passing over a pair of pulleys, one at each end of the bay, attached to the bogie.

 

 

With one of the pulleys powered by a simple motor, pulling on the cord in either direction will propel the bogie, which will move the wagon.

 

By putting the coupling on an extended arm, the bogie itself should not be 'visible', maintaining the illusion of the wagon being moved just by cables.

 

Possibly.

[Giles]

Apropos steam locos underground in munitions... Something I've never seen modelled is a compressed-air loco. I remember seeing a photo of one with a pyramid of air cylinders where the boiler would normally be on top of a completely standard chassis.

[DonB]

 

I'll need to add lighting in the lower levels, which will be a first for me.

 

 

Stu, your inventiveness continues to amaze and impress me! I like this concept very much.

 

Lights.... you might find the thread

http://www.rmweb.co....ount-of-lights/

of interest, the posts from #15 onwards relate to the advice I was given for the lights inside "Hockley Goods". The link to a site which draws a circuit for you is MAGIC.

Don't know about regulations for armament stores, but (like coal mines) anything likely to cause a spark is likely to be taboo, literally a minefield!

[Stubby47]

Thanks Don, that's a thread I had missed.

I've also used Kytes Lights before. I know what sort of lamps I'd like to use, but it's what I can find that will be suitable, but the info on how to power them is exceedingly valuable.

 

Stu

[Follower]

Hi Stu,

 

I like the idea of your layout but sadly RNAD Ernesettle wasn't like that! The 'underground' explosive stores are actually buried buildings with grass-covered soil heaped over them. The only true underground stores were at RNAD Dean Hill (now closed) where the individual stores were driven into the side of the hill (like an adit mine) with curved access roads for rail wagons. In my time it was all diesel locos, but an alternative would be stored steam where the loco has no firebox but is charged with steam from a boilerhouse. I'm fairly certain this arrangement was used in explosive factories.

 

Simon.

[Stubby47]

Simon, thanks for the information.

 

I've no doubt that what I'm intending is 100% inaccurate ! And as Rich said earlier, using a steam loco underground, and in an armaments store, would be completely against all sane logic.

(Plus, unless you know what's underground, what I'm proposing could be true...).

 

But, it's only a fantasy layout, built to be different, and if I can provoke some discussion with the viewers then all the better. I also want to keep pushing the boundries of conventional layouts - why do they all have to be flat ?

 

Cheers

 

Stu

[DonB]

I posted a couple of Gallery pictures of the Barclay Fireless loco preserved at Gloucester Docks. see:

http://www.rmweb.co....-fireless-loco/

Edit:- when I posted the link the full size picture was there! returning to it I can only see the thumb-nails. don't understand!! PM me if you want a copy.

[Penlan]

...... the layout is really a vertical one, rather than the normal horizontal.....

I presume this is because of your environmental concern to keep the Carbon Footprint very low ....

 

I have a wagon turntable based on double sided copper faced board, from Penlan Mk1. It was motorised and was basically a small loco turntable in it's working. These days I would use one of those micro super strong magnets to 'lock' a wagon wheel steel rim in place for turning, we also used a magnetic stick through the back scene (wharehouse) to pull the wagon off, push onto, the turntable.

 

Look forward to seeing the end result.

[Stubby47]

DonB & Mickey

THanks for the pictures & link of the fireless locos, but building reliably moving rolling stock / motive power is waaaay beyond my skills, and the RTR version is perhaps too big for what I need.

 

I'm thinking of only needing to move one wagon at a time, so have just thought (as I write this) about using a narrow gauge motor with with a suitable body to haul the standard gauge wagons around....

I'd obviously need to have dual gauge track in the underground levels, including the turntables, but it would be different...

 

Thanks for the spark !!

 

Progress wise, the main structure of he hoist cage is built, just trying to source pulleys for the winding gear.

 

Stu

[shortliner]

Stu, I offer the following possible alternative for moving your wagons from storage to/from the turntable.

 

Having seen people complain about trying to uncouple kadees due to the axle being attracted to the magnet - why not use that to move the wagon. Basically a brass U-channel from K&S with a fork cut in one end, allowing a small K&S U-channel to be fitted into it, with a small neodymium magnet on the end. The track and turntable are on a piece of plasticard, hiding what is going on below. The hinged rod with the magnet attracting the wagon axle, is pushed forward until the fulcrum wire is passed, at which point the magnet, and arm, drops away, leaving the wagon free to be shunted off the turntable. Pushing a wagon onto the turntable and rotating it - reverse the proceedure and the magnet rises allowing the magnet to attract the axle and the wagon can be pulled into the storage. Another Jaxcilli Enterprises idea!

 

[Stubby47]

Jack,

That's quite a clever idea. Assuming I read your details correctly, the U channel rod has a hinged connection to a short length of U channel. If so, what supports the main section of U channel as it is pulled back ? The hinged section will need to be supported along the length of the track , other than at the point it is required to drop (under the turntable). Also, I'm guessing the magnet is heavy enough to break the magnetic attraction to the axle so it will fall.

 

Also the method to move the wagons into & out of storage is manual - I need to make mine mechanical as I need the layout to be operated from one end only (so I can play at home - "Laterite & Co" is too awkward to operate & watch at the same time.

 

Definitely food for thought though, thanks.

 

Stu

[shortliner]

Sorry Stu, The main length of U-channel would be running in a slot routed in the baseboard, under the track into the storage area, so the rod would be supported along its length - the slot being covered by plasticard - Further thought will be needed about mechanisation though!!

[Stubby47]

The fulcrum would also have to move, in order to force the magnet up to connect with the axle to pull the wagon into storage, otherwise the ability of the magnet to drop away would prevent the magnet from re-acquiring the axle when required. Also, the routed path for the U channel would have to be wide enough to also accommodate the magnet as pulls the wagon.

[DonB]

Since I still can't see my gallery pictures, (I've asked Andy!), I post my two of the Barclay here, showing a little more of the sides. [you will realise that you are lucky to see these since that's SWMBO sitting patiently, partly hidden under the "Explore" legend on the banner! She doesn't do patient often!]

 

 

Might just convince you to try your hand at a modification to one of the "Thomas" 0-4-0 tanks, Perhaps keeping the cab and just fabricating a barrel to hide the motor?

[DonB]

As an afterthought here's a picture of a wagon T/T also at Gloucester.

[shortliner]

Just been playing with some magnets - it would need some experimentation with the number required to attract the axle - some weight on the hinged section of the arm would be enough to break the attraction when the arm is not supported -if the fulcrum is a quadrant it should let the arm be gradually puled up and pick up the axle, especially if you use bar magnet rather than a circular one - a stack of 5 10mm circular ones under 60 thou plasticard, and with a car on code 100 track, will move a 45.5 gm car

[Chris Nevard]

Here's a rather purposeful fireless loco seen on the great Mr Harrap's Quay:87.

The joy of a freelance (ish) MOD project is that you can justify all sorts of curiosities. I don't know the make of this one, but with a drab livery and MOD somewhere on the side it could work. Being HO should match British wagons.

[49395]

Liliput make 0-6-0 and 0-4-0 versions of fireless locos, not sure about an 0-8-0 though

 

Mike

[Stubby47]

Gents,

Thanks again for all the input of fireless locos - it is something I'd not considered (having not real knowledge of these things ). But they are quite large, especially for an underground track.

 

As Penlan alluded to earlier, the locos at TumblyDown Museum have inspired me to use a small, narrow gauge loco in the lower levels, using mixed gauge track.

If I make the wagon turntables suitably big enough, I'll be able to get both the wagon and the loco on the table together, so will be able to shunt the wagons properly into the bays, removing the need for complex (& hidden) mechanical methods.

 

So, do I go for an offset three rail track , or a full inset 4 rail track ?

 

Stu

[DerekEm8]

Stu,

 

A further hands free idea for your wagon movements

 

 

You'll obviously need some brackets to support the threaded rod.